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Pioneer SE-A1000 Appreciation Club ( Sennheiser HD 650 for $45?) - Page 38

post #556 of 914

If synergy is overrated then why do some amps sound fine with some cans and not others?

 

OH! Because they don't work well together! (i.e. OTL amp with low impedance cans)

 

Synergy comes from the Greek word synergia from synergos, meaning "working together"

 

Fyi I like how you had you leave your opinion after talking about being sick of opinions... classy! lol


Edited by kvtaco17 - 8/5/13 at 5:00pm
post #557 of 914
I think it has to do more with the kind of headphone.

My vintage akg are the only cans i have had experience with that respond well to different sources.

With my other cans, and the many cans ive been able to demo, not in the slightest

Sent from my SPH-L300 using Tapatalk 2
post #558 of 914
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicman74 View Post

All I'll add is if you've never owned or heard a certain headphone, Don't say this is beter then that ect....   The Pioneers are great at $45 no doubt, but can't hold a candle to a well amped

HD650...That was the main point.    It's a little mis-leading.   If a noob comes into the thread buys a Pioneer and starts saying they are better the HD650 etc, That starts the hype train with more noobs and you get this crazy cycle of people recommending stuff on no real merits.

Just like the old post how the Panasonic 600's are another HD650, we all know that headphone was crap, but noobs started the hype train...You get people that just joined and have 5 posts saying this-(Name headphone) are the best etc, and other noobs don't know any better....M50 ring a bell?

I'd argue that the main point is they can hold a candle to the HD650. Not the same thing, fine. Dramatically different? No. The Pioneers are great at $150. At the clearance price, apparenlty they are so good they are upsetting to some. eek.gif

The Pioneers also spank headphones that cost twice their price, i.e. the AKG K701, which I've had for years, and still have—not to mention grado 325s, which I no longer own but certainly did own. And, as I stated the headphones the SE-A1000 had to conquer was the Denon AD-H600, which I felt they did. Comparing the Pioneers to other sub-$100 headphones is an insult, quite frankly.

 

The world of audio is just as full of overhyped, overpriced gear as it is overhyped, cheap gear. The SE-A1000 is neither.
 

One of these headphones is better than the other one


Edited by imagic - 8/5/13 at 5:33pm
post #559 of 914
That I agree with, some cans respond to better sources better then others. Trust me though, if you ever get a chance to listen to a grado with a proper tube amp please do! Its a very different experience.
post #560 of 914

Collecting up a few remarks from earlier, I found the HTF600 to be quite capable...for $30. I feel it could be compared, with obvious faults, to headphones reaching up to the $80-$100 range, with more expensive competitors gradually gaining advantage until the HTF600 could no longer credibly compete. My own SRH440 performs comfortably better for the $99 I paid (they're usually $10 cheaper now), serving as a useful cap on expectations.

 

Similarly, I thought the M50's technical capability merits anything up to around $150, though the upper end of that range is a bit optimistic these days, with a greater selection of closed circumaurals than when the M50 was first introduced.

 

In neither case would I say these are giant killers, though in both cases I have the benefit of reference and bit of experience. Hype comes when both of these things are lacking, as has been discussed above. Everything has its place, which only becomes clear in context.

 

Unfortunately, that context is often lost in appreciation threads because, by nature, the subject is going to be the headphone being appreciated. And, also by nature, appreciation implies positive impressions. Such threads will contain a disproportionate number of people who really enjoy the product, and some even who have a personal interest in its success. Taken out of context, every headphone with an appreciation thread will be the best thing ever.

 

The two things that help clarify a headphone's merit, IMO, are objective comparisons with similarly-performing products, and time. The first of these is easy enough to prepare; the other can't be controlled by anybody. The M50, despite being ridiculously overrated at one point, is still recommended and still holds up years later. Will we be able to say the same about the SE-A1000 years from now? We can't know until the time comes.

post #561 of 914
Quote:
Originally Posted by kvtaco17 View Post

That I agree with, some cans respond to better sources better then others. Trust me though, if you ever get a chance to listen to a grado with a proper tube amp please do! Its a very different experience.

Fortunately, I have a buddy in Rhode Island who has the entire Grado line (he's a completist) and he DJs with PS1000s. I have a trip planned to visit in three weeks, and I'm bringing my trusty "Can Opener" so I can hear the Grado's through a Krell FPB 600 biggrin.gif 

I'll see what I can do, I want a pair of Grados and I'm basically going to RI so I can find out if the PS1000 is right for me, 'cuz my buddy has one hell of a rare vinyl collection.


Edited by imagic - 8/5/13 at 5:35pm
post #562 of 914
Nice!

I'll give you a little clue if you dislike the ps1000... Put the PS500 on, and listen... If you want less bass and a signature approaching neutral with a mid range emphasis throw the g cushions from the ps1000 on the ps500...
post #563 of 914
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

 

One of these headphones is better than the other one

I agree, to me the K701 is clearly the better headphone with less glaring faults or weaknesses.

post #564 of 914
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

I'd argue that the main point is they can hold a candle to the HD650. Not the same thing, fine. Dramatically different? No. The Pioneers are great at $150. At the clearance price, apparenlty they are so good they are upsetting to some. eek.gif

The Pioneers also spank headphones that cost twice their price, i.e. the AKG K701, which I've had for years, and still have—not to mention grado 325s, which I no longer own but certainly did own. And, as I stated the headphones the SE-A1000 had to conquer was the Denon AD-H600, which I felt they did. Comparing the Pioneers to other sub-$100 headphones is an insult, quite frankly.

 

The world of audio is just as full of overhyped, overpriced gear as it is overhyped, cheap gear. The SE-A1000 is neither.
 

One of these headphones is better than the other one


I can't comment on the AKG, I've never heard them or owned them.  Same with the Grado's.  But a lot of people have said bad things about the 325 as being too harsh.  I agree with you on the Denon's.  They missed the mark BIG time once they cut the D1000/2000/5000/7000 line up. They are much better in all counts.   A few people in this thread say the Pioneers don't add up with 1 or 2 saying they do.  I kinda go with the majority when that happens.  I could care less really it was 1 Hr of pay for the Pioneers and they are decent.  I never said they weren't.  Still a little wonky on my set but they are brand spanking new.  Most likely I'll game with them. Soon as I do a cable job, 20ft's a bit much.  I still say the don't match the

HD650, I've owned them and let them go.  Too dark for my taste.....But that's just preference, same as you liking the Pioneers more then the AKG..

post #565 of 914

Well, my pair arrived today, and I have to agree with the skeptics.  I find them to have a better soundstage and sense of air than my Sennheiser HD 449s but that's about it (and this is probably inherent in the difference between a sealed and open headphone).  They also are not quite as tilted to warm side as the Senns.  But the clarity and control of the 449s is superior, especially in the bass region.


Associated equipment are a 2011 iMac -> Schiit Modi -> Schiit Magni -> Pioneer SE-A1000 and Sennheiser HD 449.

post #566 of 914

There aren't warm at all. These sound closer to a full-sized grado than it does to anything sennheiser's put out.

post #567 of 914

I think we are starting to get a lot of backlash on the hype trains lately, for good reason. These forums have had too many posts of "this cheap headphone is as great as this expensive headphone" because it draws attention. Threads on nicer headphones usually just say " the xxx headphone" or " xxx headphone impressions", etc. 

One rule I follow is always spend some time with a new headphone before posting up. What sounds new and exciting out of the box can show its faults in a week or so. Then give honest impressions and comparisons. 

I have had the pioneer se-a1000. its very nice for the price, I paid about 50$ for it some years ago. Great soundstage, good for gaming. Its clarity does not compare the higher end open senns, akgs, beyers, and technicas I have had. Seems close at 1st, but then the newness wears off. Again, great for the price. 

 

some legitimate great for the price cans are this one, jvc harx700 (many jvcs actually), the panasonic 600 mentioned, and the ath-m50 (put them through hell and they survive)

post #568 of 914
Quote:
Originally Posted by ourfpshero View Post

 Seems close at 1st, but then the newness wears off. Again, great for the price. 

Bang on the money here and this applies to pretty much anything new posters makes about these days in the non Summit Fi section, you have one person discover a new product and go omg omg, it's so good, hype it up, then the rest will follow and hype it as well, give it some months later or weeks or even days, the hype wears off and everything becomes normal again until another product is discovered and hyped. 

 

I have had both these and the HD650's as well a crapload of other cheap headphones be it low/mid fi, I'm willing to bet my money that some of you here haven't heard a well amplified HD650 and what it can do. Sure the SE-a1k is nice, I'd probably call it a poor mans HD650 in some aspects of tonality and sound but it is not on the same league as the HD650's or even near it. These also don't sound a whole day and night better when amplified, unlike the other well regarded high z Sennheisers the 580/600/650 which improve based on amplification alone, sometimes to staggering levels. 

 

But yeah like all the other 999 threads about poor mans headphones such as the HARX700 being a poor mans A700, HARX900 poor mans A900 etc, these are not bad and wouldn't pay more than $70 for them as the Superlux's perform better imho.

 

Finally back to this thread only, the title of the thread the op has made is mis-leading, should be changed to poor mans 650 or something.


Edited by DefQon - 8/7/13 at 6:50pm
post #569 of 914
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

 

But yeah like all the other 999 threads about poor mans headphones such as the HARX700 being a poor mans A700,

 

Hey thats my thread :)

One of my 1st when i joined headfi! I akso 'found' the superlux and posted up a year or two b4 they became popular around here (they were big on some euro audio forum).

I personally put the jvc over the superlux , except maybe the hd662 which is very 'beyer-ish'

 

To be fair, i love pioneer headphones, have had many new and vintage pioneer cans, till have a monitor 10 ii, hdj 2000, and hdj1500

post #570 of 914

Yeah nah all good. Don't know if you remember (and that shipping incident we had with the MB Quart I bought being shipped back to you), I asked you about these headphones you were selling like few years ago. That was around the time I bought mine then sold it off, found it to bland and uninvolving sounding to my preference and the flimsy construction but not as the Sony SA-1k's. 

 

Yeah the JVC's are alright but yeah I've moved on from those headphones now, I'm a full time electrostatic person now. :)

 

I'm still sticking by what I said about these headphones, thanks to palchiu for hyping it up on a product nearly 5 years old. If comparing by graphs, the UR40 is closer to the 650's sound representation than these.

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