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Skeptico Saloon: An Objectivist Joint - Page 53

post #781 of 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post

...it was the music after all.  tongue.gif

Right! On Head-Fi! I buy that...NOT! (Oh please, can we abstain from this ridiculous and self-delusional phrase.) Let's break out those AM radios...for the music...after all.
Edited by Mambosenior - 7/1/14 at 6:07pm
post #782 of 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post
 

Besides, the F-M curve is made based on what? Diffused field or?

 

Fletcher Munson is based on the sensitivity of the ear to frequencies. It applies to both headphones and speakers. (There is also something called "equal loudness contour" which is a broader definition of the concept.) The curve is a bit different at different frequencies and very different at different volume levels, as well as affecting lower frequencies differently between speakers and headphones, but the most important range for music listening at normal listening volumes is between 2kHz and 10kHz where the ear goes from very sensitive to not very sensitive.

 

It can be ballparked by looking at the measured response above 2kHz. The dB should slope down to around 6kHz, then have a bump up at between 8 and 10kHz. Above 10kHz it doesn't really matter as much if the response is balanced, because that is the least important octave in the audible spectrum. The amount of the dip and bump depends on the volume you listen at, but I generally figure a deviation from flat around 15dB or so. That's a spit in the wind figure. Someone else may have a more accurate one.

post #783 of 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

You like them 'O mighty one?  Currawong said they sound dark, but I guess it's preference though.  Graphzzz plzzz. 

 

Go look em up yourself on inner fidelity and compare the response to the Stax above. My sound engineer buddy and I did a tone sweep by ear (which is the easiest way to apply the Fletcher Munson curve) and we found that in the core frequencies, the Oppos were within +/- 5dB from 40 to 10kHz.


Edited by bigshot - 7/1/14 at 6:15pm
post #784 of 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post

 
Besides, the F-M curve is made based on what? Diffused field or?

Fletcher Munson is based on the sensitivity of the ear to frequencies. It applies to both headphones and speakers. (There is also something called "equal loudness contour" which is a broader definition of the concept.) The curve is a bit different at different frequencies and very different at different volume levels, as well as affecting lower frequencies differently between speakers and headphones, but the most important range for music listening at normal listening volumes is between 2kHz and 10kHz where the ear goes from very sensitive to not very sensitive.

It can be ballparked by looking at the measured response above 2kHz. The dB should slope down to around 6kHz, then have a bump up at between 8 and 10kHz. Above 10kHz it doesn't really matter as much if the response is balanced, because that is the least important octave in the audible spectrum. The amount of the dip and bump depends on the volume you listen at, but I generally figure a deviation from flat around 15dB or so. That's a spit in the wind figure. Someone else may have a more accurate one.
How different is that from the Olive-Welti model?
post #785 of 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

How different is that from the Olive-Welti model?

 

Dunno. Like I said, since it varies by volume level, I use a spit in the wind method.

 

More info here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

post #786 of 953

I like Olive&Welti the best. all they say makes lot of sense, the way they got the result too. they already pretty much brought harmony to speakers, so I had full confidence in them for headphones. also that's purely egoistical but something flat with their compensation curve happens to be very close to what I hear flat and prefer (ER4's signature never sounded neutral for me).

 

Tyll decided he will slightly tweak the curve for his own database. trying to understand why, I though that maybe it is more fitting with his particular measurement settings(calibration reasons?). I don't know and didn't really understand that move. they did all that job so that one day we could at long last, all use the same compensation curve and all call neutral the same signature. instead of electrically neutral, er4 neutral, "I like how that sounds" neutral...

and the first thing he did was to tweak it to his own convenience. doesn't that entirely defeat the purpose of such a curve?

post #787 of 953

Not to sound like a broken record, but "good enough for human ears" applies here too. I don't see what the point of a frequency response graph is if it doesn't represent what human beings hear. No one that I know of takes equal loudness curves into account when they chart the response of headphones, so what you are actually looking at is how these headphones sound to a dummy head equipped with microphones. Well thanks, but that doesn't exactly tell me what these headphones will sound like on my own noggin. It will only give me a general idea what they sound like in relation to *other* headphones.

 

Personally, when I test equipment, I'm doing it for no one else by myself. I don't need measurements accurate to .5dB. My goal is always to keep my eye on the goal, which is good sounding music. With human ears and the variety of music, there is always a little "wiggle room". And testing by ear with tones tells me *exactly* what I want to know... do these headphones have an AUDIBLY flat response? I think a lot of the reason that people have the idea that flat response sounds thin and shrill is because they think "measured flat response" is the same as "audible flat response". It isn't.

 

Since Fletcher Munson varies by volume, I usually test at a fairly loud listening level and then just turn on the Dynamic Range Compensation loudness control on my Yamaha receiver. That adjusts for Fletcher Munson at lower volumes and does a bang up job of keeping the response the same at every volume level.

post #788 of 953
Many discussions about audio in a nutshell?



The HD800 doesn't sound very good on amp X because X amp can't "drive" it properly.
post #789 of 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

Many discussions about audio in a nutshell?



The HD800 doesn't sound very good on amp X because X amp can't "drive" it properly.


Mind Virus!

post #790 of 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

Many discussions about audio in a nutshell?



The HD800 doesn't sound very good on amp X because X amp can't "drive" it properly.

 

I'm a big fan of CGP Grey...everyone should check out his YouTube Channel!

post #791 of 953

"something uninformative" with history channel's logo. ^_^

but at least half audiophiles have positive illusions, not negative ones. do we also need to let them believe in the stupid thing that makes no sense, and knowingly lie with them(with the risk of creating more of them in the process)? because if so, then I've been doing real bad up till now.

post #792 of 953

I found this in the Chord Hugo thread, and recommended to get a regular old USB cable.  Read this.  Wow, high-end section is a jungle.

 

http://www.hifidelit.com/products/ppa-red-usb-cable

post #793 of 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post

Wow, high-end section is a jungle.

And how.  It is astounding what you get with a combination of hearing bias and magazine reviewers who need to keep the supply of stuff to review coming in.

post #794 of 953
In more cheerful news, this is making the rounds on the first page of the Portable Headphones forum smily_headphones1.gif
http://www.head-fi.org/t/726569/review-tour-somic-mh412-viper4android-the-put-up-or-shut-up-review-and-tour
post #795 of 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by blades View Post
 

And how.  It is astounding what you get with a combination of hearing bias and magazine reviewers who need to keep the supply of stuff to review coming in.

The reviewers at Stereophile were asked how they choose what they review and the answer was, when they attend shows like CES or Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, they hear music from systems or certain components that sound good to them and they then contact the manufacturer and ask them to send the item to review. So they're starting from a point where they already like what they hear, so unless something wildly unusual happens, the review will be positive.

 

That's just one reason why you almost never (if ever) read a bad review. 

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