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The new IEM of Vsonic VSD 3S ( impression updated by smailbz) - Page 36

post #526 of 4929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivabign View Post
 

The $50 price point is what I wonder about - I mean if the VSD3 performance really was able to approach a SE535 or W4, couldn't they price at $99 and not take too much of a hit in volume? - at $50, a lot of the cost of manufacture has to be taken up by detachable cables, and other elements that have more to do with ergonomics than sound reproduction.

So you're worrying that the price is too low. Now that's a first on head-fi lol.

It's a well-known fact that vsonic's been making among the best bang for the buck iems for years. Last year Vsonic's CEO decided it was time they went further and created an iem that not only matches (and even exceeds) in sq a lot more expensive iems but it also can compete with them in the looks and build quality department. Aside from all the usual BS and claims Vsonic's CEO has been posting he also decided to take action against what most other manufacturers avoid to discuss - the ridiculous price to performance ratio of the products by companies like shure, so he decided vsonic can make something that sounds like the shure and westone flagmen for a fraction of the price just to show that it can be done and not only that it can be done but that it can be done by a Chinese company.

post #527 of 4929

I have no issue with the skepticism regards the price. The last model was the VSD1 LE which was solid for $69 but not great. The Classic is $99 or a bit more. Hard to take it on faith that a company spent so much $$$ on creating these and they want $55 to $65 for these new models and they could get more cause they are really good but they aren't doing it. Nice to think or hope they are just giving us a great deal but nothing is proven yet. Not surprised if there are plenty of people who will take a wait and see approach. Hope for the best, yes,  but the math doesn't quite add up yet esp. with the latest claim of how costly the R&D. 

post #528 of 4929
Quote:
Originally Posted by jant71 View Post
 

I have no issue with the skepticism regards the price. The last model was the VSD1 LE which was solid for $69 but not great. The Classic is $99 or a bit more. Hard to take it on faith that a company spent so much $$$ on creating these and they want $55 to $65 for these new models and they could get more cause they are really good but they aren't doing it. Nice to think or hope they are just giving us a great deal but nothing is proven yet. Not surprised if there are plenty of people who will take a wait and see approach. Hope for the best, yes,  but the math doesn't quite add up yet esp. with the latest claim of how costly the R&D. 

At VSD1 LE you pay for the number printed on them. 

The normal models, VSD1 and VSD1S are a lot cheaper: $45.

Don't forget that according to ljokerl VSD1S is the best pick under $50.

post #529 of 4929
Quote:
Originally Posted by jant71 View Post
 

I have no issue with the skepticism regards the price. The last model was the VSD1 LE which was solid for $69 but not great. The Classic is $99 or a bit more. Hard to take it on faith that a company spent so much $$$ on creating these and they want $55 to $65 for these new models and they could get more cause they are really good but they aren't doing it. Nice to think or hope they are just giving us a great deal but nothing is proven yet. Not surprised if there are plenty of people who will take a wait and see approach. Hope for the best, yes,  but the math doesn't quite add up yet esp. with the latest claim of how costly the R&D. 

Well, to be completely fair the vsd1le was released and sold in China for 199 yuan, which is roughly $32. The same price like the other vsd1 models. Prices like $69 showed up later from people trying to make money due to its limited availability, especially outside of China. We're actually kinda getting a deal with the vsd3 now coz even the standard vsd1 versions had like a 40% mark up from the international sellers while now we can get the vsd3 for like 6 bucks more than the Chinese price. Also, while not mind-blowing the vsd1le is a great iem. Of course, personal preferences vary and often if one doesn't like a certain sound signature he can be disappointed with something that isn't necessarily disappointing.

I always try to be as objective as possible and while neither of the vsd1's version is what my main sound preference is I can't deny their bang for the buck status. In my book everything vsonic has made so far has been a deal for the customers. 

post #530 of 4929
Quote:
Originally Posted by knives View Post
 

At VSD1 LE you pay for the number printed on them. 

The normal models, VSD1 and VSD1S are a lot cheaper: $45.

Don't forget that according to ljokerl VSD1S is the best pick under $50.

But Joker didn't say the VSD1S was the best pick under $100, or $200, or $400....

 

I will be the first one to applaud the VSD3 if they sound as nice as an expensive multi-BA headphone - (one where just the cost of the BA drivers is 3 times the selling price of the VSD3)

post #531 of 4929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivabign View Post
 

But Joker didn't say the VSD1S was the best pick under $100, or $200, or $400....

 

I will be the first one to applaud the VSD3 if they sound as nice as an expensive multi-BA headphone - (one where just the cost of the BA drivers is 3 times the selling price of the VSD3)

I think you're taking things a bit too literally and making too much calculations (both financial and of drivers). Is the vsd1s the best under 100, 200 or 400 bucks - no. But is the se535 the best under 500... - no, nowadays not even in the sub-200 range. Also, vsonic has already made an iem that cost 4 times less and is better than the se535 - the gr07. So I don't see why you think they can't make something that is on par in sq.

post #532 of 4929
Quote:
Originally Posted by kova4a View Post
 

I think you're taking things a bit too literally and making too much calculations (both financial and of drivers). Is the vsd1s the best under 100, 200 or 400 bucks - no. But is the se535 the best under 500... - no, nowadays not even in the sub-200 range. Also, vsonic has already made an iem that cost 4 times less and is better than the se535 - the gr07. So I don't see why you think they can't make something that is on par in sq.

The GR07 is a nice phone - but I  don't think buyers in the market for a 535, cross shop the GR07 - and the 07 has its issues - but they are different birds - one is BA, one is dynamic. And the GR07 is a nice phone.

 

I think you might get an argument with the pronouncement that the GR07 is better than the SE535 - IMHO

 

EDIT - and the GR07 was priced as high as $189 in its heyday - so it isn't automatically 25% of the price of a 535 - used to be almost half.... 


Edited by Ivabign - 6/1/14 at 6:31pm
post #533 of 4929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivabign View Post
 

The GR07 is a nice phone - but I  don't think buyers in the market for a 535, cross shop the GR07 - and the 07 has its issues - but they are different birds - one is BA, one is dynamic. And the GR07 is a nice phone.

 

I think you might get an argument with the pronouncement that the GR07 is better than the SE535 - IMHO

I mentioned it coz you obviously assume that just because an iem is expensive and has multiple BA drivers there's no way that an iem with a single dynamic driver can be better, which is not the case. Of course the gr07 and se535 both have issues. But it's kinda funny when a company is asking 500 bucks for an iem that doesn't have less shortcomings than the one that costs under 200. Yeah, they are different sounding iems, so personal preference can overcome the shortcomings and tip the scales towards one of them as the better one but on a technical level the gr07 is superior if you put the sound signature aside. And while the se535 at its launch was just very overpriced at the current market it's ridiculously overpriced coz if you're in the market for a bit mid-centric iem for 400-500 bucks - the Noble 4 is running circles around the shures.

post #534 of 4929

I'm not assuming anything - what I'm not doing is making blanket generalizations about what headphone is "better" or "running circles around" another - they are different and have different target audiences - it is apples and oranges - I would venture to say that there are more listeners who would say their 535 fits their preferred signature to a "t" than don't. Sometimes a measure of a IEMs quality is its longevity - neither the GR07 or the 535 is getting that much ink at the moment, but it seems to me that the GR07 had to cut its price to stay relevant - whereas the 535 still goes for more than $400 anywhere you go.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that I doubt - I'm pretty sure of this - that the VS3 is going to sound better than 60 - 70% as good as a 535 or W4 - and in this hobby, 30% is a chasm - under the laws of diminishing returns, that 30% could be worth to some hobbyists ten times the starting price of the VS3 - I mean, have you seen the money spent on cables?

 

It won't happen - there isn't a Santa Claus, the IRS won't forget you if you owe them, and they stop swallowing around a year after you marry them.

post #535 of 4929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivabign View Post
 

I'm not assuming anything - what I'm not doing is making blanket generalizations about what headphone is "better" or "running circles around" another - they are different and have different target audiences - it is apples and oranges - I would venture to say that there are more listeners who would say their 535 fits their preferred signature to a "t" than don't. Sometimes a measure of a IEMs quality is its longevity - neither the GR07 or the 535 is getting that much ink at the moment, but it seems to me that the GR07 had to cut its price to stay relevant - whereas the 535 still goes for more than $400 anywhere you go.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that I doubt - I'm pretty sure of this - that the VS3 is going to sound better than 60 - 70% as good as a 535 or W4 - and in this hobby, 30% is a chasm - under the laws of diminishing returns, that 30% could be worth to some hobbyists ten times the starting price of the VS3 - I mean, have you seen the money spent on cables?

 

It won't happen - there isn't a Santa Claus, the IRS won't forget you if you owe them, and they stop swallowing around a year after you marry them.

Nah, blanket generalizations are made when one assumes or claims something is better based only on personal preference or repeating what other people have said without hearing both sides of the story - in this case hearing both iems. I got your "they are different"argument. My argument is that I judge iems objectively despite their sound signature and in my book if an iem is faster, is more detailed and transparent, has better treble, better separation and better layering - then it is running circles around the other one (in this case the other two coz exactly the same goes for westone 4r). period.

 

And I've said it many times before - I like the se535, I like the shure house sound, for quite some time I was mainly into mid-centric iems and the shures and sennheiser ie7 were my favorites. Time passed, a ton of new players joined the game and the se535 as it is started to get inferior and not inferior in that price range, inferior on mid-fi level coz just a great build quality isn't worth 400 bucks nowadays with all that stiff competition and ever improving sound for cheaper and cheaper.

 

And if we talk longevity the ety er4 blows pretty much anything out of the water in this department being 20 years old and still so popular and not to mention that it's still using a single BA but that's another matter. And the gr07's price wasn't cut because they wanted to stay relevant but because the vsd7 was supposed to be released last year and overtake the gr07's spot as a flagman at exactly the same price, so the gr07's price remained lower after the LMUE's summer sale to clear the stocks. And how much an iem still costs years after its release doesn't prove anything - shure just likes to keep its prices up and live in an imaginary world where the shure iems are among the handful of iems with detachable cables that cost under 500 bucks, which hasn't been the case for years.

 

Now generalization is guessing percentages like - 60% this, 70% that, "30% is a chasm" - now that's ridiculous not that Santa Clause is real 


Edited by kova4a - 6/1/14 at 7:36pm
post #536 of 4929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivabign View Post
 

But Joker didn't say the VSD1S was the best pick under $100, or $200, or $400....

 

I will be the first one to applaud the VSD3 if they sound as nice as an expensive multi-BA headphone - (one where just the cost of the BA drivers is 3 times the selling price of the VSD3)

VSD1S costs $46, so they just need to be the best under $50 to be the better buy. They are not just a solid choice.

As they claim that VSD1 is 90% of GR07, i believe that what they mean is that VSD3/VSD3S is 90% of W4R/S535

post #537 of 4929
Quote:
Originally Posted by kova4a View Post
 

 

 

Now generalization is guessing percentages like - 60% this, 70% that, "30% is a chasm" - now that's ridiculous not that Santa Clause is real 

LOL - I'm just using the same verbiage that Vsonic uses - when it uses percentages to explain differences in quality between headphones - you can't go after me for using the same language that they do. :D

 

I guess I'm looking for a modicum of humility here - all these impressions are your opinions - not facts, not etched in stone. There are so many headphones that have come and gone - and while they were here had their staunch defenders. When someone states with authority that vaporware is going to blow the pants of the establishment, I get a bit wary.

post #538 of 4929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivabign View Post
 

LOL - I'm just using the same verbiage that Vsonic uses - when it uses percentages to explain differences in quality between headphones - you can't go after me for using the same language that they do. :D

 

I guess I'm looking for a modicum of humility here - all these impressions are your opinions - not facts, not etched in stone. There are so many headphones that have come and gone - and while they were here had their staunch defenders. When someone states with authority that vaporware is going to blow the pants of the establishment, I get a bit wary.

Well, it was vsonic's CEO who generalized like that but I think it's fine when you're generalizing like that in regard to another product of yours and not the competition. I go after you coz 30% nowadays given the diminishing returns is a ridiculous "chasm". Now, personal preference can make such a gap but in reality the difference between the great bang for the buck performers and most of the mid-level high-end stuff is probably like 15% - if I'm to use the same language. :tongue_smile: 

As far as my impressions in regard to se535 - they are very good iems but I'm not talking about personal preference like - "x has more bass than y" and stuff based only on personal preference. They just can't match them on technical ability and performance, which shouldn't be a surprise to you given your logic that a single dynamic driver can't match a more expensive multi-BA iem coz following the same logic a few years old 3BA iem can't match a current'gen 4BA one. You can argue with other people's opinion but you can't argue with logic, especially if it's yours. :D Now, if you put personal preference into play - I would pick vsd1le over tf10 any day of the week - how's that for a personal opinion. :deadhorse:

 

Anyway, we shouldn't be discussing the merits of multi-BA drivers, whether a high price makes something better and also generalize and speculate on something that isn't out yet. We'll know by the end of the month whether any of the claims were true and how good exactly are the new vsonics. Cheers

post #539 of 4929
Is there an english version of tmall purchase link somewhere ? Want to order but chineseisnot my strongest point smily_headphones1.gif
post #540 of 4929
Quote:
Originally Posted by SittesJoe View Post

Is there an english version of tmall purchase link somewhere ? Want to order but chineseisnot my strongest point smily_headphones1.gif

The pre order sale is over. The 1000 pairs were sold in just a few hours last night.

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