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New Schiit! Ragnarok and Yggdrasil - Page 111

post #1651 of 9301

Also, from me - no offense intended either Jude. I appreciate the time taken and as a guy who lives on an island these reviews are priceless to me because I will never get to hear 90% of what I buy, before I buy it. 

post #1652 of 9301
Quote:
Originally Posted by magiccabbage View Post

Also, from me - no offense intended either Jude. I appreciate the time taken and as a guy who lives on an island these reviews are priceless to me because I will never get to hear 90% of what I buy, before I buy it. 
I live on the most isolated island in the world, so reviews are definitely important to me, too. I'll be buying these, though...schiit's return policy is too attractive not to give these a go.
post #1653 of 9301
Quote:
Originally Posted by estreeter View Post

@jude, thank you for your well constructed response, and it wasnt my intent to drag this into a political stoush or offend you. I've been here long enough to know that discussion goes nowhere.

For the rest of us, there are probably 4 or 5 longtimers on this board whose initial impressions I'm prepared to place any trust in - the rest will be the usual melange of expectation bias, new toy joy and placebo : not being harsh for the sake of it, but it's one of the reasons good reviewers rarely submit a detailed review (as opposed to first impressions) in anything under 3 months from the day they receive a component. Whether you believe in burn-in or not - and I do - any impressions of gear with less than a hundred hours cant be trusted, IMO, but they'll come thick and fast as soon as head-fiers start receiving their amps. Its entertaining, but if you want more than that I'd suggest that you let that first week of madness subside  wink.gif

Great post. This has been my experience too.. I suppose if you've been here long enough (or in the hobby long enough for that matter), you'll learn to filter out the hard truths from the fluff.
post #1654 of 9301
Quote:
Originally Posted by jude View Post

 

So far, almost all my use of it has been out of its balanced headphone output, so that's all I'll be posting about at first. I ordered a couple pairs of KEF LS50 (loudspeakers), one of which is to pair with the Ragnarok, but they haven't arrived yet, so I haven't yet tried the Ragnarok's speaker outputs.

 

I was wondering about this pairing, as the LS50s are one of my favourite pairs of speakers, but I was wondering if they would be sensitive enough for the Ragnarok. 

post #1655 of 9301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jude View Post

 

So far, almost all my use of it has been out of its balanced headphone output, so that's all I'll be posting about at first. I ordered a couple pairs of KEF LS50 (loudspeakers), one of which is to pair with the Ragnarok, but they haven't arrived yet, so I haven't yet tried the Ragnarok's speaker outputs.

 

I was wondering about this pairing, as the LS50s are one of my favourite pairs of speakers, but I was wondering if they would be sensitive enough for the Ragnarok. 

 

I'll definitely be picking up LS50s with the Ragnarok if they perform favorably!

post #1656 of 9301

The Ragnarok will deliver 60 watts RMS/channel  into the LD50s' 8 ohms, and the sensitivity of the LD50 is 85 db--power isn't going to be an issue.

post #1657 of 9301
Quote:
Originally Posted by FraGGleR View Post

Have a few to share that cost similar to building a B22 (fancy enclosure not included)?  Can build a 2-channel for around $400 and a fully balanced for $800.  Genuinely curious.  
I suppose your time to build it is free, and the tools you bought to make the amp are free, and the time you spent learning how to build it was free also? This $400 build would be $800+ if you had someone build it for you. Most balanced B22 builds I've seen commissioned end up around $1500-2000. There are countless amps now that eclipse it in performance, but as this is a Schiit thread, I'll name one from them that bests the B22 in all aspects, including driving speakers, the Mjolnir, and it's balanced for a mere $750, and is about 1/3 the size of most balanced B22 builds I've seen, and comes with a 5 yr warranty, and a trial period. The B22 era is over.
post #1658 of 9301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by FraGGleR View Post

Have a few to share that cost similar to building a B22 (fancy enclosure not included)?  Can build a 2-channel for around $400 and a fully balanced for $800.  Genuinely curious.  
I suppose your time to build it is free, and the tools you bought to make the amp are free, and the time you spent learning how to build it was free also? This $400 build would be $800+ if you had someone build it for you. Most balanced B22 builds I've seen commissioned end up around $1500-2000. There are countless amps now that eclipse it in performance, but as this is a Schiit thread, I'll name one from them that bests the B22 in all aspects, including driving speakers, the Mjolnir, and it's balanced for a mere $750, and is about 1/3 the size of most balanced B22 builds I've seen, and comes with a 5 yr warranty, and a trial period. The B22 era is over.

Yes, I spent about 3K USD to build 6-boards B22 balanced/unbalanced myself, and I can say its reign is long gone.

Still I enjoy to use its sheer size to mock/surprise peope who think it's multichannel super powerful speaker amplifier.
post #1659 of 9301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post


I suppose your time to build it is free, and the tools you bought to make the amp are free, and the time you spent learning how to build it was free also? This $400 build would be $800+ if you had someone build it for you. Most balanced B22 builds I've seen commissioned end up around $1500-2000. There are countless amps now that eclipse it in performance, but as this is a Schiit thread, I'll name one from them that bests the B22 in all aspects, including driving speakers, the Mjolnir, and it's balanced for a mere $750, and is about 1/3 the size of most balanced B22 builds I've seen, and comes with a 5 yr warranty, and a trial period. The B22 era is over.

 

I'm going off-topic, but which differences did you find between B22 and Mjolnir?

post #1660 of 9301

Thanks Jude, very convincing indeed. I was not referring to sponsors, but friends you have on head-fi, I thought it would be difficult be an Critic to friends. But you answer is much convincing which enforces transparency and trust.

post #1661 of 9301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry S View Post
 

The Ragnarok will deliver 60 watts RMS/channel  into the LD50s' 8 ohms, and the sensitivity of the LD50 is 85 db--power isn't going to be an issue.

 

I dont consider 85dB an 'easy load', and I'd take that 8-ohm rating with a grain of salt. 

 

http://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-ls50-anniversary-model-loudspeaker-measurements

 

Somewhat optimistically specified at 8 ohms, the LS50's impedance (fig.1, solid trace) drops to 4 ohms at 200Hz and to 5.4 ohms at the top of the audioband. The electrical phase angle is generally mild, but the combination of 5.3 ohms and –41° at 135Hz, a frequency where music often has high energy, will make the speaker work at its best with a good, 4 ohm–rated amplifier

 

Personally, I put little stock in a speaker amp's rated power as long as we arent talking fleawatt amps - JA and others frequently find those numbers to be understated or simply misleading - but I guess we'll find out soon enough whether the Rag can really get the best from the LS50s highly rated drivers. I'm driving a much easier load from a 45W amp and it's plenty, but I havent seen a single review of the LS50 where the reviewer hasn't made a point of the requirement for plenty of juice. I temper a lot of it with the understanding that these folk have to cover an awful lot of bases in terms of room size, reflective surfaces and listening preferences, but thats the gig they signed on for. 

post #1662 of 9301
Quote:
Originally Posted by x838nwy View Post
 

 

I think you're looking at it from an angle that might not be most suitable to tackle the situation.

 

Is the speaker part as good as the headphone part? I don't think anyone can answer that as there is no such thing as a speaker/headphone pair that are said to be equivalent. If you use a mediocre pair of headphones and a really awesome pair of speakers, I assume the speakers will sound better and vice versa. There's no base line from which to judge the two relative to each other. The price scale for headphones end at the Abyss, but for speakers, well... All we can reasonably expect is that they will be similar in topology and thus in sound signature. Each will probably have a better time with one range of impedance and not be so happy with another, and each will have its limits.

 

I think the question you're really asking is how will it compete against headphone amps of similar costs and how will it compete against speaker amps of similar costs. Obviously I cannot comment on this as I haven't heard it through anything, but Mike and Jason have been at this a long, long time and while a lot of folks have gone tired of waiting, I think they're mature enough to wait and perfect their products before selling them and that to me is a sign to expect good things. For some reason, I seem to recall Jason saying that he doesn't listen to other people's products which sort of means they do the best they think they can possibly do for an amount of cost available. They also run a very lean operation, so I expect the performance vs. cost ratio to be very high, as is usual for Schiit products. They don't have like a PR campaign to run or any celebrity to hire and they sure as Schiit don't "position" their products price-wise.

 

As for how good the speaker have to be, that again, is an unanswerable question as there is really no gauging system. From your description of your speakers, they seem to be sufficiently transparent to let you hear differences in amplifiers and from there I don't think there's any reason you'd fail to hear what the Rag is doing. Besides, I'd keep changes to just one component at a time.

 

Also, I do not think tube amps should sound and different to ss amps or vice versa if they're properly done. Remember that tubes were not invented just for audio but for a whole bunch of other applications like guiding missiles. I've never heard of a missile flight path being described as tubey. More often than not, their implementations require that they are different from one another but the ultimate goal is the same so results should be the same. The real problem lies in people have this concept that tubes = better, so we have manufacturers trying to incorporate tubes in their designs sometimes for no better reason than to have something glowing. If they don't take sufficient care doing it, they just end up making a poor amp. The sad fact is that people too readily chalk that up to the 'tube sound' thing. So I think if what you hear is just 'different' you probably heard right. (not that there's any 'wrong', but you shouldn't have been expecting more just because it's got tubes.)

 

So, I think you'll find that the Rag will be a contender as both a headphone amp and a speaker amp. And your speakers will confirm that. Only you can decide if it's better than what you've got. 

Hmm, I might have expressed myself a bit badly:

I have tested the Denon speaker amp with the HE-400 and it was A LOT worse than the schiit asgard (here I am positive it was worse, even thou it could go far louder, the distortion was unbearable after the Asgard). Yet with the focals 714 it did quite well, and that was the main reason I bought it. So I was wondering: If the Headphone part was as good as the speaker part, it should be a noticible improvment (diminishing returns considered). 

 

But even in that case, not sure if it would be noticible on a 1.2K speakers :D.

 

I got to admit Im a sucker for glowing tubes. I know its idiotic and has not impact on the sound but when I watch tubes glowing I probably look like this:

 

 

I am a bit surprised that Jude decided to use shelves and not floorstanders for testing the rag.

I think floorstanders tend to require more power so its easier to notice if the amp can maintain the same freq response, distortion, etc when its a bit more stressed (you know, the same way you stress an overclocked CPU to see if its stable).

Still, Im really looking forward to Judes opinion on the ragnarok and will be reading/watching it imported beer from Slovakia (my favorite one) when it finally comes out.

post #1663 of 9301

Hmm, I wonder if Jude keeps going to write down some impressions and then gets distracted listening to the Rag.

post #1664 of 9301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defiant00 View Post
 

Hmm, I wonder if Jude keeps going to write down some impressions and then gets distracted listening to the Rag.

Then, a simple review would be: "All, get your order in...." That would work for me.:biggrin: 

post #1665 of 9301
A picture is worth 1000 words. So a picture of Jude hugging the Ragnarok would be a lengthy and convincing review.
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