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Fischer Amps FA-4 E XB: New 4-BA IEM From Germany - Page 45

post #661 of 1719

That is why you tip-roll to find personal preference pairing ;)

post #662 of 1719
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFC_SL View Post

That is why you tip-roll to find personal preference pairing wink.gif

I'll only really tip roll if stock tips are terrible/uncomfortable/don't seal. Otherwise, I don't want to deal with it if the manufacturer couldn't be bothered to optimize the tips included for the IEM either. That's just my stance. Many disagree and I sleep at night just fine knowing that.
post #663 of 1719

+1 vwinter. And I want to add that all silicone are not the same : Fit Ear stock eartips are not comparable with Rhapsodio stock eartips, but both have the same size biflange ! Sometimes stock eartips are good, sometimes less, but it's clearly impossible to say IMO that silicone eartips are just bad.

post #664 of 1719
Thread Starter 
The thing is that tips change the sound a lot
post #665 of 1719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurdt-bada View Post

The thing is that tips change the sound a lot

They can, I just don't want it to be my problem. I have other things to do than AB tips.
post #666 of 1719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurdt-bada View Post

The thing is that tips change the sound a lot


As the IEMs don't have the true sound (except the new Dita IEM called The Truth for sure :biggrin: ), just find the best for you and then don't ask you more question, it's my opinion. IEMs are made with silicon tips, they are designed with, so thinking that change the sound is not false, but thinking that the true sound is with earmolds is IMO a little bit exagerate...

post #667 of 1719
Thread Starter 
Let me correct myself then the best sound by far with custom silicone imo, but as better the fit is more close the sound should be
Edited by Kurdt-bada - 11/17/13 at 4:18pm
post #668 of 1719
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post

I'll only really tip roll if stock tips are terrible/uncomfortable/don't seal. Otherwise, I don't want to deal with it if the manufacturer couldn't be bothered to optimize the tips included for the IEM either. That's just my stance. Many disagree and I sleep at night just fine knowing that.

 

My you are grumpy :-) Don't really follow that logic. Manufacturers have to cover all bases due to different equipment combinations and ears. Besides it costs them nearly nothing to include cheap tips but the value gained in terms of customer satisfaction and perception of value makes it worth it.

post #669 of 1719
Thread Starter 
I don't follow that logic either xD
Edited by Kurdt-bada - 11/17/13 at 4:16pm
post #670 of 1719
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFC_SL View Post

My you are grumpy :-) Don't really follow that logic. Manufacturers have to cover all bases due to different equipment combinations and ears. Besides it costs them nearly nothing to include cheap tips but the value gained in terms of customer satisfaction and perception of value makes it worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurdt-bada View Post

I don't follow that logic either xD

Maybe a bit grumpy lol. There's been a shortage of that goodness around here anyway. wink.gif

So here's my logic:
It's the manufacturer's responsibility to choose optimal tips for inclusion with the IEMs. They can do this through testing with measuring equipment or using many sets of real ears. How they do it is their choice. If it doesn't conform to my own HRTF, that's just unfortunate. I don't owe manufacturers anything to try different tips. I'll do it occasionally as I'd said earlier, and sparingly on loaners, unless requested or I feel it's a problem that can be mitigated with different tips.

I'm just at the point where I want things to just work without me needing to fix them.

I'd rather use EQ these days because it's less of a crapshoot. Fwiw, I felt the FA-4E were not problematic enough across the board where I didn't feel the need to try EQ and could enjoy them for what they do. That says a lot as far as I'm concerned.

Also as I noted, I believe I was using them with Ortofon tips.
Edited by vwinter - 11/17/13 at 4:29pm
post #671 of 1719
I get what you are saying but why risk customer perception by putting all eggs in one basket. It is the same logic as including eq. I do not use eq but does not mean someone else will not. Honestly do not get why you feel so strongly about your personal preference or the highway when the context is about the retail package which needs to be about the big picture
post #672 of 1719
I consider tip rolling something I do because I want a sound that's closer to my preference and/or comfort. Not a contest vs what the manufacturer decided to provide. But I understand your point in that it should be their responsibility to provide what makes their product perform optimally. Anyway, it's extremely hard to account for the differences in anatomy when choosing tips. So I choose to tip roll.

Edit: Oh crap. I will have to rewrite parts of my review. I don't know what the manufacturer of the biflanges that came with ASG-2 did. But it's magic. Pure fcking magic. I don't think they fit the ASG-2 that good because they're sibilant in my ears and create some unpleasant resonances. But on the FA-4E... Can anybody confirm that they are indeed the same as Meelec balanced tips? Because that's the conclusion I came to when I examined the one Meelec tip I had left with the two that came with the ASG-2.

Edit: Oh wtf. I pulled the trigger and bought 6 pairs of Meelec tips.
Edited by MoonYeol - 11/18/13 at 3:07am
post #673 of 1719
Thread Starter 
Is the treble more extended than with ts 500? XD
Edited by Kurdt-bada - 11/18/13 at 4:27am
post #674 of 1719
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFC_SL View Post

I get what you are saying but why risk customer perception by putting all eggs in one basket. It is the same logic as including eq. I do not use eq but does not mean someone else will not. Honestly do not get why you feel so strongly about your personal preference or the highway when the context is about the retail package which needs to be about the big picture

I'm not sure we're on the same page here. The manufacturer isn't risking anything except R&D costs. I don't really expect miracles with a $30 earphone but when it's $500 plus, I expect some forethought. I'm not telling the manufacturer to only include one set of tips lol. I'm saying they should do the best they can to optimally couple the tips with the housing to create the most consistent representation of the sound they were trying to create. Obviously people's personal anatomy will alter the sound to some degree, but that has nothing to do with the manufacturers responsibility IMO (this has nothing to do with FA at this point). Just throwing in a bunch of tips they could get at the best price is the opposite of what I think is the best solution.

Take a look at the TDK BA200. It came with very few tips, 2 sets of biflanges and a set or two of Comply foams. The impressions on that IEM are very consistent across the board because the tips were either chosen or designed with that IEMs sound in mind. You'll also find that most people could not find a better sounding set of tips than the stock biflanges (not that there aren't any). This is because TDK put effort and knowledge into the interaction of tips with the output of the system. Not that everyone found the biflanges the most comfortable tips lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonYeol View Post

I consider tip rolling something I do because I want a sound that's closer to my preference and/or comfort. Not a contest vs what the manufacturer decided to provide. But I understand your point in that it should be their responsibility to provide what makes their product perform optimally. Anyway, it's extremely hard to account for the differences in anatomy when choosing tips. So I choose to tip roll.

Edit: Oh crap. I will have to rewrite parts of my review. I don't know what the manufacturer of the biflanges that came with ASG-2 did. But it's magic. Pure fcking magic. I don't think they fit the ASG-2 that good because they're sibilant in my ears and create some unpleasant resonances. But on the FA-4E... Can anybody confirm that they are indeed the same as Meelec balanced tips? Because that's the conclusion I came to when I examined the one Meelec tip I had left with the two that came with the ASG-2.

Edit: Oh wtf. I pulled the trigger and bought 6 pairs of Meelec tips.

And I support anyone who wants to tip roll. I do it sparingly.

I don't remember ASG-2 stock biflanges being the same as any meelec biflanges I've seen but they are nice tips, though not the best for the ASG-2. I haven't heard any tips that fix the sibilance without muting overtones and whatnot.
Edited by vwinter - 11/18/13 at 5:09am
post #675 of 1719
Yeah. The grey biflanges which look identical to meelec balanced have more treble extension than Ts500. But the biggest thing is the more forward upper mids. Comparing the FA's with Ts500 through BH is several notches below the meelex balanced (I will refer to them as such) and Glacier. The glacier does its fair share but honestly I think that the sound signature change comes more from the balanced tips. I A/B compared with auvios, Ts500 and meelec balanced. The grey biflanges have the least mid/upper bass, the coldest overall tonality and the most spacious sound with the best detail in the upper mids. They do take away some of the body from the bass but it's still more than sufficient and the sub bass is still there to be felt. Not everyone will like them, they bring the FA's closer to neutral and will induce fatigue faster. But so far I haven't heard any real sibilance, only more forward mids.

On a side note I also suspect that I may have a bit longer ear canals as I tend to get better treble balance when I shove the iems in deep. I also push my MH1C in as far as I can with the cable over the ear. That's the only time I don't feel that the treble is just one large peak in the lower, not sibilant region, that masks most of the extension.
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