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The JPS Labs: Abyss AB-1266 Impressions Thread - Page 14

post #196 of 1678
Haha these are ugly as hell. I'm sure the engineering team worked hard on the functional aspects of the driver units but it looks like little though and time were put into the aesthetic and ergonomic aspects of the product. For something priced at that level I think the level of fit and finish needs to be raised.
post #197 of 1678
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post


2. I think you're getting confused to what I was saying and what Hutnicks was trying to convey. The thing is not about getting any amp and expecting it to shine with a TOTL headphone, no it doesn't work that way. What I was saying is that, with comparison's sometimes you can't always have everything in the same picture. For example, OP re-did a test with the Abyss on the Cavali amp, the Cavali amp isn't you're regular $1-2k high end headphone amp it is a summit-fi amp ($2k + if we put an acceptable figure). While this combination may sound extremely good, it is also important to know what amp the HD800/LCD3 was running off. The HD800 itself has a history of not pairing well with a large number of amplifiers, only synergising well a certain few. It also worthy to note that our distributor A2A don't have some of the other well acclaimed amplifiers around these boards, the Eddie Current range, Headamp etc. So what you have in the end is a half arsed picture of one side telling the story. 
 

For a perfect review comparing all the flagships, every high-end amp/TOTL headphone needs to be included in the review. Unfortunately for us Aussies, we are limited to what we can grab our hands on, in the US, with meets and audio festivals that happen quite frequently, put's us out of the picture.

You are getting close to spot on here. If you take the HD800 as an example, any review which does not mention it's pairing as a huge factor in SQ is simply misleading. A consumer buying one and expecting stellar performance from a different amp is likely to be very disappointed. I suspect the Abyss will be in the same class and be very sensitive to amping, which is why there is the wide spectrum of review results now seen. This is compounded by "summit fi" amps having a very wide spectrum of performance. An amp that may make 800's really shine may well make LCD3's sound mediocre and vice versa.

post #198 of 1678
Thread Starter 
Well I did touch on this briefly anyway with the pairing of the Abyss and Burson. Which was to say it was severely underpowered and underwhelming. If anything, the HD 800 is easier to pair, with a reasonably powered tube amp, you would probably get 90% out of the HD 800. For the Abyss, I felt that there was a semi proportional relationship between amp power and the sound quality of the Abyss. So with the Burson it was pretty crap.

Having said that, I think it's unfair to say a ToTL headphones must be reviewed with budget amps. Not only are you defeating the purpose of the headphones (if anything, you are reviewing the amp and not the headphone) but you also miss the single key point of headphones such as the Abyss and Sr-009: they are targeted at the people with money to spend.

THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL THE ABYSS IS WORTH $5000. Even factoring in all the extras and the research & development. The profit margin is huge. Yet people still buy them. Thus, it comes as no surprise that someone willing to spend $5000 on a pair of headphones is willing to spend at least $2000+ on an amp (if not more). To think that someone would pay $5000 on a pair of headphones and cheap out on the amp is ridiculous. So you expect someone with an Sr-009 to not amp it with a ToTL electrostatic amp? Absurd!

There are exceptions, such as the LCD 3 and HD 800 where you can fair much better with cheap amps, and in those cases, you can find tonnes of reviews where cheaper amps are included as well as of course user reviews.
post #199 of 1678
Quote:
Originally Posted by etherlite View Post

IMO it'd be difficult and unfair for the TOTL headphones to be reviewed with low-mid end DAC & Amps

 

In extreme example, it's like reviewing HE-6 using dacport LX & schiit asgard, and the review is just going to say that it doesn't worth the price difference, you'd better just buy ATH-M50 or max HD650

 

If it requires high end system, so be it. But that is also a point of consideration before buying the abyss. You might be content with your system with your LCD-3 or HE-6, but abyss might need some more

 

@defqon: I don't understand why you are still making conclusion by what you've seen and read, just drive off to A2A and judge by your own ears? You're living in Melbourne >.>


In short you're saying that people with who doesn't have summit end source and amp should forget about Abyss altogether. Well that certainly make it easier.

post #200 of 1678
Quote:
Originally Posted by laon View Post
In short you're saying that people with who doesn't have summit end source and amp should forget about Abyss altogether. Well that certainly make it easier.

Rudely speaking, yes. Tbh I'm not even sure my lampizator lv4 and Liquid Fire are good enough for the abyss

 

Politely speaking: if you want Abyss, be prepared to buy summit end source & amp as well. 5000$ is NOT the total price you have to pay in order to get the most of the abyss


Edited by etherlite - 6/26/13 at 4:06am
post #201 of 1678
Quote:
Originally Posted by etherlite View Post

Rudely speaking, yes. Tbh I'm not even sure my lampizator lv4 and Liquid Fire are good enough for the abyss

 

Politely speaking: if you want Abyss, be prepared to buy summit end source & amp as well. 5000$ is NOT the total price you have to pay in order to get the most of the abyss


Heh then I guess I can safely forget this cans as I probably will never shell out 15K for the whole thing, though even if I do I sincerely doubt that I'd want this bear trap looking thing.

post #202 of 1678
Quote:
Originally Posted by etherlite View Post

IMO it'd be difficult and unfair for the TOTL headphones to be reviewed with low-mid end DAC & Amps

 

In extreme example, it's like reviewing HE-6 using dacport LX & schiit asgard, and the review is just going to say that it doesn't worth the price difference, you'd better just buy ATH-M50 or max HD650

 

If it requires high end system, so be it. But that is also a point of consideration before buying the abyss. You might be content with your system with your LCD-3 or HE-6, but abyss might need some more

 

@defqon: I don't understand why you are still making conclusion by what you've seen and read, just drive off to A2A and judge by your own ears? You're living in Melbourne >.>

Agreed completely. Using sub-par gear on top flight headphones is no real way to really hear what the headphones can do. Plain and simple....you bottle neck these headphones and you are exactly not hearing what they're about. Now run them on a neutral DAC and wire-with-gain GS-X, all you hear is the recording and transducers on the headphones (mostly anyway).

 

I do agree that trying lower grade gear (amps/dacs/sources) with these types of headphones can be very helpful too to potential buyers. Take the HD800s, if you're using entry level upstream gear and have no plans to upgrade, then the HD800s (or LCD-3s) would be money wasted IMO. Now the LCD-2s or D7000s sound great out of almost anything...so they might be a better choice in that example.


Edited by MacedonianHero - 6/26/13 at 6:35am
post #203 of 1678
Quote:
Originally Posted by etherlite View Post

.....

I don't know about A2A bringing in the herd of Headamp products. And I doubt maus will just let me borrow his ZDSE for a TOTL comparison. lol

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by etherlite View Post
 

Tbh I'm not even sure my lampizator lv4 and Liquid Fire are good enough for the abyss

 

Having the privilege of hearing the L4, I reckon it is one of the best DAC's around. I''m sure the L4 will be extremely plenty for the Abyss but you'd need to match the sound between DAC/Amp and the AB's sound sig. The only thing that I can think of that will hinder the performance of the L4 is crap amplification because having it heard it on a speaker setup thanks to a few on SN, the only contender sound-wise I can think is the 380D.

post #204 of 1678

There's been a lot of folks over in DIY audio describing the Lampizator DACs as jokes.  Saying the Quanghao Dac End is a much better DAC by a very large margin.

post #205 of 1678

Guys, what system / amp have to be used to hear HD800 neutrality?

 

THX

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckman View Post

 

I've had a fair amount of experience with the LCD3 out of a number of good amps, and the Abyss - in a half hour demo - was pretty easily my favourite in terms of its bass. It was more balanced/less emphasised, and yet hit harder and with greater clarity.

 

In defence of the LCD3, I think it has a sweeter (yet less detailed) midrange. I love its musicality.

 

My preference has never been for the HD800, though I've had the opportunity to appreciate its virtues numerous times. And though both phones seem to strive for a similar kind of neutrality, I'd take the Abyss every day of the week, given a choice. The Abyss is simply awesome with rock music (for example), whereas the 800 has always left me wanting.

 

Haven't heard the 009, but given the Abyss' technical prowess, I'd assume it would give the Stax a run for its money. The separation of sounds, which I've heard is amazing with the 009, is also a virtue of the Abyss.

 

I've heard that the Abyss' fantastic soundstaging capability is due to some innovation regarding the magnets. Please correct me, but I think there is no back magnet in the Abyss - that somehow the driver is not sandwiched between two magnets.

 

Obviously I have no idea :-)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

30 minutes worth of demo time is not enough. The brain works in wonderful ways and one of them is the influence of new products where you automatically think newer is better and the the way your brain wants to believe there is a massive difference. This placebo wears off when you have compared two products extensibly to death with more than just 30 minutes demo time.

From what I've read so far the LCD3 and Abyss are two differebt sounding headphones. The LCD3 are more fun, liquidy and forgiving sounding. What it seems is that the Abyss is targetting neutrality such as the HD800's or any of the upper Stax for that matter.

I will give these an audition sometime in the near future when I have time to go to Kew.
post #206 of 1678

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post
I don't know about A2A bringing in the herd of Headamp products. And I doubt maus will just let me borrow his ZDSE for a TOTL comparison. lol

 

Having the privilege of hearing the L4, I reckon it is one of the best DAC's around. I''m sure the L4 will be extremely plenty for the Abyss but you'd need to match the sound between DAC/Amp and the AB's sound sig. The only thing that I can think of that will hinder the performance of the L4 is crap amplification because having it heard it on a speaker setup thanks to a few on SN, the only contender sound-wise I can think is the 380D.

That's the rumor I've heard from a reliable source

 

Maus did bring the ZDSE and RWA isabelinna to compare it to my LF before, maybe you need to offer something he's interested as well lol

 

That's why I bought the L4 as my end game setup, but I haven't got the chance to pair it with abyss, so I'd rather not say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

There's been a lot of folks over in DIY audio describing the Lampizator DACs as jokes.  Saying the Quanghao Dac End is a much better DAC by a very large margin.

 

Again, I haven't heard of that quanghao, and I hate people who bashes other rigs that they haven't even got a listen to, so I'd rather not say. 

post #207 of 1678
Quote:
Originally Posted by etherlite View Post

Rudely speaking, yes. Tbh I'm not even sure my lampizator lv4 and Liquid Fire are good enough for the abyss

 

Politely speaking: if you want Abyss, be prepared to buy summit end source & amp as well. 5000$ is NOT the total price you have to pay in order to get the most of the abyss


Now were getting somewhere. The reality of the actual buy in is  significantly more than the HF purchase price. So when you start looking at total cost other HF amp combos start looking mighty appealing.

 

On the bright side KSA 50's can be had cheap these daysbiggrin.gif

post #208 of 1678
Although discontinued I think the KSA50's are little too powerful for any ortho on the market atm.
post #209 of 1678
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

Although discontinued I think the KSA50's are little too powerful for any ortho on the market atm.

 

They were only a 50 watter so that's not outside the scope of a speaker amp for hard to drive headphones. Using an attenuator for a pre may just result in the most transparent drive train ever.

post #210 of 1678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post

 

They were only a 50 watter so that's not outside the scope of a speaker amp for hard to drive headphones. Using an attenuator for a pre may just result in the most transparent drive train ever.

Assuming the MK2's were 100watts each.

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