The JPS Labs: Abyss AB-1266 Impressions Thread
Aug 1, 2014 at 8:34 PM Post #1,246 of 22,267
Hmm, even though I've only heard the Abyss and not the HD800, I get the feeling that I would probably have a similar impression to the person who wrote the review posted by Music Alchemist.  I have noticed over time that hyper-detailed sound isn't necessarily something that I enjoy listening to, nor can I listen to for long periods without fatigue.  I also really like the sound of the Abyss and Audeze's.  Would I be correct in saying you really need to power the Sennheiser's through a tube amp or warmer signature solid state to round them off a bit?
 
One other thing re: the Abyss vs Stax, is that everyone always seems to complain about the massive price tag of the Abyss, but fail to note that the Stax will really only shine off a $5-$6k+ amp, and not only that, you're buying a $5-$6k+ electrostatic amp, which is primarily only ever going to be used for one pair of cans and one pair only.  Where as the Abyss is still worth owning with a cheaper amp (obviously it's even better off a $5-$6k+ amp also, but it's not a must).  And then you have the added advantage of owning a "normal" headphone amp which you can potentially use to drive all your other dynamic and planar flagship cans (if you have them), without having to buy additional gear. 
 
Also, on the topic of detail retrieval, (which I thought was excellent on the Abyss anyway, but haven't been able to compare it to the HD800 or 009).  I guess you have to ask, "Is it really necessary?"  I'm going to use scolaiw's quote here "can you truly have too much of a good thing" because I think it applies to the HD800 and 009 as well.  I'm going to assume that people on here have watched Jude's video reviews on the 009 and Abyss.  His impressions on the 009 seemed to be pretty consistent with most people's.  He did call them (at the time) the best headphone in the world due to the fact that there is just so much detail there but admitted they might be too bright for some and it took his brain a while to adjust.  However, like I just said, Jude mentioned that the big issue with the Stax was needing to purchase a top end electrostatic amp with them, pushing the cost of a 009 well up into 5 figures, making him very hesitant to buy them (not sure if he has by now - I don't think so though).  Then with his review of the Abyss, he stopped short of saying they were 'better' than the 009, because in terms of detail retrieval, technically, the Stax probably is better.  However, he did buy a pair of Abyss right after he heard them, even though he said that the 009 was technically a better headphone.  So maybe you can have too much of a good thing.  The HD800 has fantastic detail but needs to be warmed up a bit to be enjoyable (according to some) and the 009 is also 'technically' a marvel, but when presented with the two headphones and given the opportunity to audition them, Jude's opinion was the the 009 was probably the best headphone in the world, but bought the Abyss without hesitation.  So maybe if you had the two sitting on your desk waiting to be picked up and listened to, you'd pick up the 'less detailed' Abyss due to the fact that it breathes more life into the music and is a more enjoyable listen even though maybe the Stax would reveal that extra bit of information...
 
Aug 1, 2014 at 9:06 PM Post #1,248 of 22,267
haha yeah fair point but it's not necessarily a question - this is a place for reviews, thoughts, impressions and discussions.  Normally if someone disagreed or agreed, this would be were they say their piece.  
 
Do you have the Abyss?  Have you tried the Stax and Sennheisers?  Do you think I'm on the money, or way off?
 
Aug 1, 2014 at 10:27 PM Post #1,249 of 22,267
 
Do you think I'm on the money, or way off?


Probably a bit of both.

I think what you said is a very viable justification why SOME users prefer the Abyss to the SR-009. Similarly, I am sure there are SOME users who prefer the SR-009 to the Abyss for almost identical reasons. 

At the end of the day, it all comes down to personal preferences. So long as you like what you hear, nothing else really matters. 
 
Aug 1, 2014 at 11:03 PM Post #1,251 of 22,267
haha yeah fair point but it's not necessarily a question - this is a place for reviews, thoughts, impressions and discussions.  Normally if someone disagreed or agreed, this would be were they say their piece.  

Do you have the Abyss?  Have you tried the Stax and Sennheisers?  Do you think I'm on the money, or way off?


I thjnk you are fine. All sorts of reasons, economic and personal sig preferences, come into play.

I have both the Abyss and the HD800. I have listened to the SR09 a fair number of times. I do rotate my cans a fair bit. Though at the end of the day, I still find myself picking up the Abyss when I want to be blown away by the overall aural experience. :)
 
Aug 1, 2014 at 11:09 PM Post #1,252 of 22,267
yep and more expensive doesn't guarantee better sound


Agreed, Up Late. I think the entire chain plays a part. As well as what sort of sound we are looking for. :)
 
Aug 2, 2014 at 7:26 AM Post #1,253 of 22,267
  Hmm, even though I've only heard the Abyss and not the HD800, I get the feeling that I would probably have a similar impression to the person who wrote the review posted by Music Alchemist.  I have noticed over time that hyper-detailed sound isn't necessarily something that I enjoy listening to, nor can I listen to for long periods without fatigue.  I also really like the sound of the Abyss and Audeze's.  Would I be correct in saying you really need to power the Sennheiser's through a tube amp or warmer signature solid state to round them off a bit?
 
One other thing re: the Abyss vs Stax, is that everyone always seems to complain about the massive price tag of the Abyss, but fail to note that the Stax will really only shine off a $5-$6k+ amp, and not only that, you're buying a $5-$6k+ electrostatic amp, which is primarily only ever going to be used for one pair of cans and one pair only.  Where as the Abyss is still worth owning with a cheaper amp (obviously it's even better off a $5-$6k+ amp also, but it's not a must).  And then you have the added advantage of owning a "normal" headphone amp which you can potentially use to drive all your other dynamic and planar flagship cans (if you have them), without having to buy additional gear. 
 
Also, on the topic of detail retrieval, (which I thought was excellent on the Abyss anyway, but haven't been able to compare it to the HD800 or 009).  I guess you have to ask, "Is it really necessary?"  I'm going to use scolaiw's quote here "can you truly have too much of a good thing" because I think it applies to the HD800 and 009 as well.  I'm going to assume that people on here have watched Jude's video reviews on the 009 and Abyss.  His impressions on the 009 seemed to be pretty consistent with most people's.  He did call them (at the time) the best headphone in the world due to the fact that there is just so much detail there but admitted they might be too bright for some and it took his brain a while to adjust.  However, like I just said, Jude mentioned that the big issue with the Stax was needing to purchase a top end electrostatic amp with them, pushing the cost of a 009 well up into 5 figures, making him very hesitant to buy them (not sure if he has by now - I don't think so though).  Then with his review of the Abyss, he stopped short of saying they were 'better' than the 009, because in terms of detail retrieval, technically, the Stax probably is better.  However, he did buy a pair of Abyss right after he heard them, even though he said that the 009 was technically a better headphone.  So maybe you can have too much of a good thing.  The HD800 has fantastic detail but needs to be warmed up a bit to be enjoyable (according to some) and the 009 is also 'technically' a marvel, but when presented with the two headphones and given the opportunity to audition them, Jude's opinion was the the 009 was probably the best headphone in the world, but bought the Abyss without hesitation.  So maybe if you had the two sitting on your desk waiting to be picked up and listened to, you'd pick up the 'less detailed' Abyss due to the fact that it breathes more life into the music and is a more enjoyable listen even though maybe the Stax would reveal that extra bit of information...

 
I talk to individuals on a daily basis who actually prefer some of the cheaper (although much more rare) electrostatic STAX headphones (ones that don't need TOTL amps to shine) over the flagships. We're talking setups that only cost a few hundred dollars here, outclassing four-to-five figure systems, at least to their ears.
 
Some prefer the more relaxed and natural SR-007 over the SR-009 and feel that the extra detail of the latter is unnecessary.
 
I've seen it mentioned more than once that the SR-009 has a similar sound to the HD 800 and takes it all to the next level, surpassing its dynamic cousin in every respect. I'm not too keen on taking that literally, but it's an interesting illustration. Many HD 800 owners insist that its soundstage, neutrality/accuracy, and detail retrieval are unparalleled. It's no slouch, that's for sure.
 
You don't necessarily need a warmer-sounding amp. The Sennheiser HDVD 800 is fine-tuned to the HD 800 and has the same type of neutral sound, but doesn't seem to be overly harsh, from what I've heard.
 
In my as yet unpublished text file with all those Abyss review quotes, there are at least a dozen comparisons to the SR-009. Like I said before, plenty of people prefer one over the other, and as far as I am concerned, they are both worthy members of a high-end collection.
 
...but I'm pretty sure - even before hearing any of these headphones - that I would enjoy the Abyss the most overall.
 
Aug 2, 2014 at 8:35 AM Post #1,254 of 22,267
  Hmm, even though I've only heard the Abyss and not the HD800, I get the feeling that I would probably have a similar impression to the person who wrote the review posted by Music Alchemist.  I have noticed over time that hyper-detailed sound isn't necessarily something that I enjoy listening to, nor can I listen to for long periods without fatigue.  I also really like the sound of the Abyss and Audeze's.  Would I be correct in saying you really need to power the Sennheiser's through a tube amp or warmer signature solid state to round them off a bit?
 
One other thing re: the Abyss vs Stax, is that everyone always seems to complain about the massive price tag of the Abyss, but fail to note that the Stax will really only shine off a $5-$6k+ amp, and not only that, you're buying a $5-$6k+ electrostatic amp, which is primarily only ever going to be used for one pair of cans and one pair only.  Where as the Abyss is still worth owning with a cheaper amp (obviously it's even better off a $5-$6k+ amp also, but it's not a must).  And then you have the added advantage of owning a "normal" headphone amp which you can potentially use to drive all your other dynamic and planar flagship cans (if you have them), without having to buy additional gear. 
 
Also, on the topic of detail retrieval, (which I thought was excellent on the Abyss anyway, but haven't been able to compare it to the HD800 or 009).  I guess you have to ask, "Is it really necessary?"  I'm going to use scolaiw's quote here "can you truly have too much of a good thing" because I think it applies to the HD800 and 009 as well.  I'm going to assume that people on here have watched Jude's video reviews on the 009 and Abyss.  His impressions on the 009 seemed to be pretty consistent with most people's.  He did call them (at the time) the best headphone in the world due to the fact that there is just so much detail there but admitted they might be too bright for some and it took his brain a while to adjust.  However, like I just said, Jude mentioned that the big issue with the Stax was needing to purchase a top end electrostatic amp with them, pushing the cost of a 009 well up into 5 figures, making him very hesitant to buy them (not sure if he has by now - I don't think so though).  Then with his review of the Abyss, he stopped short of saying they were 'better' than the 009, because in terms of detail retrieval, technically, the Stax probably is better.  However, he did buy a pair of Abyss right after he heard them, even though he said that the 009 was technically a better headphone.  So maybe you can have too much of a good thing.  The HD800 has fantastic detail but needs to be warmed up a bit to be enjoyable (according to some) and the 009 is also 'technically' a marvel, but when presented with the two headphones and given the opportunity to audition them, Jude's opinion was the the 009 was probably the best headphone in the world, but bought the Abyss without hesitation.  So maybe if you had the two sitting on your desk waiting to be picked up and listened to, you'd pick up the 'less detailed' Abyss due to the fact that it breathes more life into the music and is a more enjoyable listen even though maybe the Stax would reveal that extra bit of information...


Why such confidence in conjecturing about Jude's unstated thoughts a to why he bought an Abyss over a 009 ?  Maybe his decision was prompted by price (including amp - Jude was happy to use a cheap Mjolnir with the Abyss) - maybe $6,000 sounded better to him than $10,000 ? ... I don't know - but neither do you.
 
Aug 2, 2014 at 8:36 AM Post #1,255 of 22,267
  Why such confidence in conjecturing about Jude's unstated thoughts a to why he bought an Abyss over a 009 ?  Maybe his decision was prompted by price (including amp - Jude was happy to use a cheap Mjolnir with the Abyss) - maybe $6,000 sounded better to him than $10,000 ? ... I don't know - but neither do you.

 
I wanted to mention that as well. He actually didn't go into a detailed comparison between the two.
 
Aug 2, 2014 at 11:16 AM Post #1,256 of 22,267
About the Stax 009 needing 5kUSD amp to sound right, it's typically not first hand experience comments. What I mean by this, is that people assume de facto that a 5kUSD woo amp is miles better than a Stax srm323s or 727 when driving sr009, and that's not necessarily true.

For some reason, it happens to be that the 009 does not suck at all with the 727 Stax amp for instance ime, even comparing against a properly tubed Electra for example. It's definitely perfectible, but that special quality of the sr009 to be a chameleon when it comes to showing you the recording in all it's glory details is certainly much better than anything else I've ever hear.

IMO, not all 5kUSD 3rd party stat amps are worth anywhere near what they cost, regardless of blanket statements you might read around...

Having said that, if you could not be bothered with dedicated amp or having a preference for the beefier / more meaty sound of some planar phones, that stats probably aren't for you.

Arnaud
 
Aug 2, 2014 at 12:11 PM Post #1,257 of 22,267
About the Stax 009 needing 5kUSD amp to sound right, it's typically not first hand experience comments. What I mean by this, is that people assume de facto that a 5kUSD woo amp is miles better than a Stax srm323s or 727 when driving sr009, and that's not necessarily true.

For some reason, it happens to be that the 009 does not suck at all with the 727 Stax amp for instance ime, even comparing against a properly tubed Electra for example. It's definitely perfectible, but that special quality of the sr009 to be a chameleon when it comes to showing you the recording in all it's glory details is certainly much better than anything else I've ever hear.

IMO, not all 5kUSD 3rd party stat amps are worth anywhere near what they cost, regardless of blanket statements you might read around...

Having said that, if you could not be bothered with dedicated amp or having a preference for the beefier / more meaty sound of some planar phones, that stats probably aren't for you.

Arnaud


+1 sr009 sound awesome with any decent stat amp. Sr009 owners tend to only want the best so are willing to spend the extra $x dollars to get it. You don't buy the sr009 without looking for the best sound. The problem with any stat headphone is that it basically requires its own amp (irrespective of those multi functional amps) which can only be used for the sr009 so OP is right about additional cost to some extent. However, sr009 are actually easier to drive than its predecessors. If sr009 was not a stat headphone, I would guess it would be easier to drive than abyss. There is something magical about the effortlessness of the sr009 specifically and all good stat headphones in general when producing music that no non stat headphone can duplicate. The abyss to my ears sounds like a really good headphone but lacks that magical quality.
 
Aug 2, 2014 at 12:21 PM Post #1,258 of 22,267
Hmm, even though I've only heard the Abyss and not the HD800, I get the feeling that I would probably have a similar impression to the person who wrote the review posted by Music Alchemist.  I have noticed over time that hyper-detailed sound isn't necessarily something that I enjoy listening to, nor can I listen to for long periods without fatigue.  I also really like the sound of the Abyss and Audeze's.  Would I be correct in saying you really need to power the Sennheiser's through a tube amp or warmer signature solid state to round them off a bit?


I wouldn't call hd800 hyper detailed and fatiguing. Personally I think its huge (unnatural?) soundstage makes picking out details much easier. With big orchestral pieces and other "big" sound music, the hd800 will sound awesome with any decent amp as there is enough sound to fill up soundstage and the huge soundstage benefits come to the fore. Funny thing, with solo instruments and the like, the hd800 also sounds great as the huge soundstage is less evident. I would consider it "easier" to find a good amp for hd800 than abyss for these types of music. However, for everything in between, the hd800 may sound thin or strange. I listened to a some Rolling Stones songs and it sounded to my ears that the huge soundstage gave too much separation to the different instruments to be natural and got in the way of the enjoyment of the song as a whole. This is where the tube amps come in. Since going to the EC MKIV, I find the hd800 much more capable of all music.
 
Aug 2, 2014 at 12:35 PM Post #1,259 of 22,267
There is something magical about the effortlessness of the sr009 specifically and all good stat headphones in general when producing music that no non stat headphone can duplicate. The abyss to my ears sounds like a really good headphone but lacks that magical quality.

 
One of many reasons why I want both!
bigsmile_face.gif

 
Aug 2, 2014 at 12:35 PM Post #1,260 of 22,267
I've said many times ( some will think too many ) that when I go for headphones and also amp and source, I don't just go for SQ but looks as well.
I was never happy with how the 009's looked with it's original headband which is why I did something about it.
Now I'm not going to knock the Abyss's looks anymore but let's assume we were all given $250,000 or £150,000 but we could only spend it on one of two new vehicles, either a Ferrari California of a Tractor. Farmers not included, hands up how many would be going for a tractor.
 

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