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He-400 or HD-650? - Page 5

post #61 of 77
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post

It is also portable :)

Never heard the MD's, but it seems they could be a good choice.

 

Just want to comment on the 400's vs k701. To my ears, the 400, when properly amped, resides in the high end of mid-fi, just bopping up in the hifi category once in a while. The k701 is a very solid mid-fier/high mid-fier. That's just my thoughts on the matter. I have owned the k701 for a couple of weeks only.

 

Now that I think about it, isn't your amp kinda dark in sound sig? That might not be good with the MD...

This is true, but honestly I've never been to impressed with the M-Stage, so it probably wont be in my system long ( I see a Lyr in my future).  I will say this about sealed cans, I'm not necessarily opposed to them, but I have no need for isolation.  If I really need isolation I'll just use my ER4s.  So if the MDs compete with the open cans they might be a possibility.  The only thing that has me a little hesitant is I read a couple comparisons that said the MDs were not even in the same league as the HE400s.

 

Regarding the K701s all i can say is that in my experience they are extremely amp dependent.  I owned mine for almost two years and three different amps before I found one that sounded tolerable with them (it was a Shanling PH100).  I recently sold the PH100 to try out an M Stage which I heard was great for the k701, but it was kind of a let down.  It has great Mids but I've never really liked the treble,  Its fairly laid back but peaky and can get very fatiguing and grainy compared to the PH100.


Edited by nickwin - 6/2/13 at 8:34am
post #62 of 77
Thread Starter 

Here's a summary of choices as I see it based on the feedback I've received (let me know if you disagree):

 

K701s: will keep for detail oriented critical listening
 

HE400: Dynamic, clear, great bass, sparkly treble but intense/fatiguing sound and a hole in the upper mids/lower treble

 

HD600/650:  I'm leaning toward the HD650 simply because the freq response of the HD600s looks very similar to the k701s and I want something totally different.  Great mids, smooth non fatiguing sound, fairly linear but lacks detail/sparkle.

 

Maddogs: smooth, linear, non fatiguing, balanced sound but boring, lacks detail, air and soundstage of the above three open cans.


Edited by nickwin - 6/2/13 at 11:19am
post #63 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickwin View Post

HD600/650:  I'm leaning toward the HD650 simply because the freq response of the HD600s looks very similar to the k701s and I want something totally different.  Great mids, smooth non fatiguing sound, fairly linear but lacks detail/sparkle.

 

Actually, it has plenty of both, it's just that the treble is a little recessed in volume compared to bass and mids and can make people feel as though resolution or sparkle are lacking. In fact, HD650 is one of the most articulate and resolving headphones I've heard across the frequency spectrum and extend very high in the treble. They just lack a little bit of sub bass extension and have slightly recessed (but not rolled off!) highs relative to the bass and mids. And, of course, they also need a strong amp and source not to sound bloated in the bass and veiled.

post #64 of 77

Just to point out something, the HE-400 does have a couple of treble peaks, but not everyone finds it fatiguing.

 

I own the HE-400 with the M-stage btw, to me an awesome pairing. The bass on these headphones is other worldly.

post #65 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickwin View Post

Here's a summary of choices as I see it based on the feedback I've received (let me know if you disagree):

 

K701s: will keep for detail oriented critical listening
 

HE400: Dynamic, clear, great bass, sparkly treble but intense/fatiguing sound and a hole in the upper mids/lower treble

 

HD600/650:  I'm leaning toward the HD650 simply because the freq response of the HD600s looks very similar to the k701s and I want something totally different.  Great mids, smooth non fatiguing sound, fairly linear but lacks detail/sparkle.

 

Maddogs: smooth, linear, non fatiguing, balanced sound but boring, lacks detail and air and soundstage of the above three open cans.

 

 

That sounds like a decent description.  I'll add that 600/650 are more detailed and clear sounding than people give them credit for.  HD600 has too much upper mids for my liking and can be fatiguing for me on particular setups.  I feel the 650 can be just as neutral as the 600 and vice-verse depending on the setup and the variant of the 600/650.  I'll also add that HE-400's sound isn't 'intense.'  It's actually one of the most laid-back cans you'll find (laid-bakc upper mids causes for less 'in-your-face' energetic harmonics), just that whenever its treble kicks in if the recording calls for it, it's a bit jolting.  A very simple and non-invasive treble rolloff via EQ makes the HE-400 one of the most non-fatiguing high volume cans on the market.


Edited by TMRaven - 6/2/13 at 10:49am
post #66 of 77
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

 

 

That sounds like a decent description.  I'll add that 600/650 are more detailed and clear sounding than people give them credit for.  HD600 has too much upper mids for my liking and can be fatiguing for me on particular setups.  I feel the 650 can be just as neutral as the 600 and vice-verse depending on the setup and the variant of the 600/650.  I'll also add that HE-400's sound isn't 'intense.'  It's actually one of the most laid-back cans you'll find (laid-bakc upper mids causes for less 'in-your-face' energetic harmonics), just that whenever its treble kicks in if the recording calls for it, it's a bit jolting.  A very simple and non-invasive treble rolloff via EQ makes the HE-400 one of the most non-fatiguing high volume cans on the market.

If this is really the case I think the HE400s are probably the right choice for me.  My biggest concern with them is that they will be too aggressive and/or fatiguing (Dt990s come to mind even though I know its not that extreme). Out of curiosity what are people using to EQ these?

post #67 of 77
Thread Starter 

looking at the FR curves of these it looks to me like the HE400s have the most different curve from the k701s.  In fact it's a pretty interesting looking curve being razor flat to 1000hz then having that massive hole in the lower treble. I'm surprised a few people commented that they overlapped the k701s more than complemented them.


Edited by nickwin - 6/2/13 at 11:30am
post #68 of 77

Head-room still hasn't fixed their he-400 graph.

 

This might be more accurate for your needs.

 

post #69 of 77
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMRaven View Post

Head-room still hasn't fixed their he-400 graph.

 

This might be more accurate for your needs.

 


thanks this is much more helpful.

post #70 of 77
I'd like to add, that you probably can't trust that graph, since it is most likely the rev 1 measurement
post #71 of 77

1000

post #72 of 77
Thread Starter 

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.  I ordered a pair of Maddogs with Alpha Pads last night.  It was an extremely tough decision but I narrowed it down to the HD650s and the Maddogs because the he400 just seemed to peaky in their FR.  The Maddogs just check a lot of boxes for me.  My plan is to try out the Maddogs and assuming I like them keep them until I can find a really good deal on a pair of HD650s, then I will compare those two and see which I prefer.

 

I'm still really intrigued by the hifimans.  I have Magnepans in my home theater so I know how good the planer tech can sound.  I'm starting to think the HE500's might actually be my ultimate headphone but Id really like to hear the he400s before I drop the money for a used pair of he500s.  If anyone in the mid-michigan area that has he400s or he500s wants to compare them to MDs sometime send me a PM and maybe we could set something up.

 

Again thanks for the input and Ill share my opinions once I get to listen to the MDs!

post #73 of 77

Post back with your impressions. 

 

gL!!

post #74 of 77
Thread Starter 

I have had my Mad Dogs for a little over a week and have used them for probably 20-30hrs.  So far I can say I am really enjoying these!  My initial impressions after having the k701s for over 5 years were good but not great paired with the Matrix M-stage.  They had the more laid back downward sloping FR that I wanted for sure, but they didn't seem to have the same resolution or clarity as my akgs.  That said they were not nearly as closed in or "sealed" sounding as I expected coming from an extremely open sounding open headphone. 

 

The thing is the more I listen to these the more they grow on me.  These are just so different than k701s that it took me a little bit to adjust to the sound.  As I continued to use the Mad Dogs the first thing that I noticed was an linear and extended bass response.  The bass is not only more present, but also more defined than the k701s.  The next thing that I realized the Mad Dogs do really well is mids.  Guitar, piano and male vocals are an improvement in my opinion over the k701s. For female vocals I would have to say I prefer the akgs, but honestly both do vocals really well.  

 

I just really like the FR of the Mad Dogs.  It has a slight downward tilt, but to my ears it sounds perfectly balanced.  On the M-stage it has slight bass-mid emphasis, but when paired with an o2 amp it sounds perfectly neutral to me.  To me its just a much more speaker like, or lifelike really, presentation compared to the k701s, and I find I can listen to the Mad Dogs much longer without fatigue.  I find my self getting really engaged with the music more often with the Mad Dogs.  Don't get my wrong, I still like my k701s, they do some things amazingly well, but I've decided I'm definitely keeping the Mad Dogs and I'm already preferring them to the k701s overall.

 

Even though these are getting all of my head time at the moment I think these will be a great complement to the k701s so thanks to everyone who suggested them!  I was a little concerned going to a sealed headphone (let alone a modded $100 one from 10 years ago) but honestly I don't even notice it and I'm coming from one of the most open sounding headphones out there. Also, I've let a couple of my friends listen to these and they both really liked them right off the bat (one owns dt990s and the other k702s). These are definitely worth a listen if your looking for a warm-neutral headphone in this price range, whether you are looking for a closed headphone or not.


Edited by nickwin - 6/28/13 at 10:29am
post #75 of 77
Haven't read this thread in awhile, so please forgive the repetitions. Razor Dog Deals and Music Direct offer the 650's for $399. Also, I have the 400's and 650's- I'll listen to the 400's for ten minutes, and then put on the 650's. The 650's are much more forgiving of less than stellar recordings, and are so pleasing to the ear. The 400's have a much more exciting presentation though.
Edited by Zuckfun - 7/6/13 at 9:21pm
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