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Dynamat mod for Sony MDR-1R - Page 3

post #31 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil1984 View Post

 



Thanks, still weighing options though, since I just started playing with some equalizers and wondering if that's not just enough for my needs. Anyhow, I am aware that the RBTs must be technically different to the 1Rs to a certain extent due to the bluetooth-stuff (battery, controls, else), but my questions is directed (solely) to the sound-relevant stuff, like the drivers, etc. All of that should be the same, right? Assuming this is the case, then applying the dynamat-mod should produce the same results as on the 1Rs, am I correct?

 

As I am completely NEW (like really really new) to all this sound-enthusiasm, I start to realize the complexity behind all this as I just started doing research. I have another illustration to make my point. Yesterday I read the reviews on the MDR1s (so all three phones) on http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/solid-sony-mdr-1r-mdr-1rbt-and-mdr-1nc (what a lovely site that is, btw) and I was wondering about the differences in the measured frequency responses. Take a look.

 

R1: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SonyMDR1R.pdf

 

RBT: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SonyMDR1RBTActive.pdf

 

or to make it simple (that's a gif, wait for 4 seconds): http://www10.pic-upload.de/04.08.13/1kg7w3zs2r3.gif

 

Am I correct that the different responses are a solely due to the bluetooth-streaming since the devices are (sound-)technically the same since they are of the same built? If this is so, I have two options, either using a equalizer to level out these differences or instead using dynamat. Or should i first try to use the equalizer to level out the inherent sound-differences to the 1Rs and then apply the dynamat to make them sound just like your modded 1Rs?

Talking about the equalizing-part since this is complelty new to me: Am I correct that it's that simple to basically overlay both frequency graphs (1Rs and RBTs) and calculate the differences on any given point in the frequency range and then to make the corresponding changes to the equalizer? Example: I calculated -18db on the 300Hz frequency for the RBTs in comparison to the 1Rs, so all I do is increase the equalizer accordingly (+18db on the 300Hz) to make them sound as 1Rs? Hopefully I was capable of making my point since I'm not a native speaker. Cheers.

 

@ admins: How can I directly paste images into my posts? Somehow this is denied for me.

 

I'm afraid it's not as simple as that. What we measure of each unit (driver + ear cup assembly) is the frequency response curve of the whole lot, not only the driver. This includes how the volume of air in front of and BEHIND the drivers respond to being excited by various frequencies, how the port behaves at various frequencies and how the enclosure (ear cup and baffle plate) responds to what the driver is doing. That whole lot and more all contributes to the overall frequency response of the headphone speaker unit.

 

In this case of the 1R and 1RBT, while Sony will probably use the same driver and materials for both models, they cannot get away from the fact that the volume of the air behind the driver has changed - the 1RBT's air volume having been displaced by the BT electronics and amplifier. As the volume of enclosed air has changed, its frequency response will change and therefore the frequency response of the speaker assembly (or unit) is changed. As far as I can guess, there isn't a huge volume there to start with, so the change is probably quite significant in terms of percentage which should cause a considerable change in sq. Now I think what most likely happened is that Sony engineers probably tuned the amplifier/BT electronics in order to compensate for this as much as they could have (assuming, of course, that the 1R-like sound is actually what they wanted), leaving us with something that sounds may be in the right ball-park, at least. Again, they must also work against the limitations of BT->analogue signal thing which is unlikely to be a bed of roses.

 

My point is that there's a lot going on that causes a difference between the two and not only the BT protocol is at fault. However, I think a lot of that has been compensated for in the electronics and may be some extra damping etc. that they stuffed into the BT model if any.

 

As a personal opinion, I don't feel it is possible to make two headphones the same or one hp just better simply through eq'ing. You're not just moving a point in the f/r curve up or down. Regardless of the eq you use, you're going to be moving near-by frequencies up or down also. So unless you can measure, eq, and measure again a number of times, you're likely to end up with something different (rather than 'better') specially if you're trying to cure that rather sharp looking dip at 300Hz... anyway, that's just my 0.02...

post #32 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by x838nwy View Post

 

I'm afraid it's not as simple as that. What we measure of each unit (driver + ear cup assembly) is the frequency response curve of the whole lot, not only the driver. This includes how the volume of air in front of and BEHIND the drivers respond to being excited by various frequencies, how the port behaves at various frequencies and how the enclosure (ear cup and baffle plate) responds to what the driver is doing. That whole lot and more all contributes to the overall frequency response of the headphone speaker unit.

 

In this case of the 1R and 1RBT, while Sony will probably use the same driver and materials for both models, they cannot get away from the fact that the volume of the air behind the driver has changed - the 1RBT's air volume having been displaced by the BT electronics and amplifier. As the volume of enclosed air has changed, its frequency response will change and therefore the frequency response of the speaker assembly (or unit) is changed. As far as I can guess, there isn't a huge volume there to start with, so the change is probably quite significant in terms of percentage which should cause a considerable change in sq. Now I think what most likely happened is that Sony engineers probably tuned the amplifier/BT electronics in order to compensate for this as much as they could have (assuming, of course, that the 1R-like sound is actually what they wanted), leaving us with something that sounds may be in the right ball-park, at least. Again, they must also work against the limitations of BT->analogue signal thing which is unlikely to be a bed of roses.

 

My point is that there's a lot going on that causes a difference between the two and not only the BT protocol is at fault. However, I think a lot of that has been compensated for in the electronics and may be some extra damping etc. that they stuffed into the BT model if any.

 

As a personal opinion, I don't feel it is possible to make two headphones the same or one hp just better simply through eq'ing. You're not just moving a point in the f/r curve up or down. Regardless of the eq you use, you're going to be moving near-by frequencies up or down also. So unless you can measure, eq, and measure again a number of times, you're likely to end up with something different (rather than 'better') specially if you're trying to cure that rather sharp looking dip at 300Hz... anyway, that's just my 0.02...


Okay, thank you so much for this insight. I do have now a better understanding of the entire material, I felt their was more to this, which I just couldn't grasp and thus articulate properly. Thanks.

I did play with the eq though in more detail and followed thegunners100's instructions of how to adjust the eq. I believe I understood his instructions since I do in fact find his approach more pleasing to my ears than my initial eq-setup. In case you want to take a look:

 

Old: http://www10.pic-upload.de/04.08.13/woxz9xy4ojvi.jpg

 

New: http://www10.pic-upload.de/04.08.13/egev1lnyfa2r.jpg

 

That's correct? Please note that I adjusted the overall volume level accordingly. If my setup is correct, I just leave it like that for the forseeable future. Maybe I come back to the dynamat mod later on.

post #33 of 77
Heh x383nyw... That was what i was trying to get at, but i guess I failed, partially due to lack of depth and detail lol.
But hey its the idea that counts right xD
Edited by Darknet - 8/4/13 at 9:49am
post #34 of 77

Just did the dynamat mod on my 1RBTs. I attached some photos for those of you that are interested in doing the same or just want to see the interior of an 1RBT (info: I used 2x52mm diameter of dynamat).

Not sure about the sound though. Again, I am no sound expert, so my judgement is not the most profound, maybe I can tell you later, I will give this mod a try at least for a week or so. No big difference though as far as I can tell by now. What I did in fact notice and makes me a little nervous are some dropouts while listening via bluetooth. It is reasonable that this is due to the metal sheet, although I considered the bluetooth antennas to be somewhere else, specifically here:

 

 

Maybe I was wrong with that assumption? Can anybody tell by looking at the pics of the PCBs if some sort of antenna is actually placed on the PCB itself and not where I assumed it/them to be, that would explain the dropouts. Assuming the metal sheets are causing these dropouts, removing the sheets but leaving the bitumen in place would solve that problem, right? What does the metal sheet do to the sound in the first place? But again, this is 2hrs after doing the mod, maybe I am just being hypercritical right now.

 

IMPORTANT: Also not sure if I have misinterpreted Andrew's guide as far as not placing the dynamat right behind the driver. Since I didn't see any free space due to the PCB and all that electronics I attached the dynamat on the cups instead. Guess that was wrong? Any comments/any help on that?

 

Here are the pics:

 

 

 

FYI: I have a ton of dynamat to spare now, in case you are interested and want it for an attractive price, please pm me so we can work something out. Since I live in Germany I think this is mostly attractive to guys from Europe, nonetheless feel free to contact me no matter where you come from. Cheers!


Edited by Phil1984 - 8/8/13 at 12:42pm
post #35 of 77

I decided to pull the metal sheets off though, as a result the reception is way better again. All in all I decided to not go any further in disassembling the phones, nonetheless it was worth a shot, too bad it didn't work out.

 

Is there any way someone posts a pic or two of the interior of their 1Rs, just for comparison-reasons? I am just eager to know what they look like from the inside. Cheers.

post #36 of 77
Ooh how is the sound affected in the rbt version? Haha your dynamat mod is executed so much cleaner than mines.
post #37 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknet View Post

Ooh how is the sound affected in the rbt version? Haha your dynamat mod is executed so much cleaner than mines.

I (once more no expert at this) cannot tell there is any difference at all, which is presumably due to the fact that the speaker chamber is unaffected.
Got pics of your mod or of maybe the interior of your 1Rs?
Edited by Phil1984 - 8/10/13 at 12:52pm
post #38 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil1984 View Post

I (once more no expert at this) cannot tell there is any difference at all, which is presumably due to the fact that the speaker chamber is unaffected.
Got pics of your mod or of maybe the interior of your 1Rs?

Lol sorry, as I mentioned earlier i don't have rbts so they just look like the ones in the op lol. But for the regular version there was a fairly audible difference. So i guess the electronics do influence the sound significantly.
Edited by Darknet - 8/10/13 at 6:22pm
post #39 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknet View Post


Lol sorry, as I mentioned earlier i don't have rbts so they just look like the ones in the op lol. But for the regular version there was a fairly audible difference. So i guess the electronics do influence the sound significantly.


Of course there is a (audible) difference between the 1Rs and the 1RBTs, but that wasn't my point. I was talking about the before/after of using the dynamat-mod on my 1RBTs, and I for me there isn't a difference at all. Nonetheless, I am again kindly asking if anyone has more detailed pics of (the interior of) their modded 1Rs, I just want to know what they look like from the inside to have a comparison with my RBTs. Cheers.


Edited by Phil1984 - 8/12/13 at 2:09pm
post #40 of 77

Hi Phil,

 

I recently bought MDR-1RBT. I am novice so just thinking if you could please post a video or a photo walkthough for the process.

 

Would really appreciate your help.

 

Cheers.

post #41 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dweepz View Post

Hi Phil,

 

I recently bought MDR-1RBT. I am novice so just thinking if you could please post a video or a photo walkthough for the process.

 

Would really appreciate your help.

 

Cheers.


Thanks for your appreciation, but that mod that does not change a thing sound-wise. Just don't do the mod with 1RBTs, I do understand that this mod works for 1Rs, but it doesn't work for 1RTBs since the speakerchamber is virtually unaffacted. For 1RBT-users it is just not worth it. Cheers.


Edited by Phil1984 - 8/14/13 at 10:31pm
post #42 of 77

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Edited by Darknet - 9/10/13 at 9:15pm
post #43 of 77
Hey Guys,

I have made up my mind to get a used Sony MDR-1R from B&H for myself.
I have been reading and researching and since I listen to a wide range of music from Sting to Dave Brubeck to Audioslave to Cuttyranks, Kes the Band, Coldplay, Robbie Williams and C&C Music Factory just to give a few of the genres I listen to, it seems to be the most suited to all of the above.

I have one query though… I am interested in doing the Dynamat Extreme Mod, but there is none available here in my country, and to spend US$40 just to ship it here does not make sense to me. Is there and alternative to dynamat that I can try that may give similar results and is more easily available? If you have tried anythingelse and have gotten favorable results, I would be curious to know what it is. I have bluTack. You think that this might work?
post #44 of 77

Resurrected my barely-used account to comment on this mod. I have had these headphones for a while now, and only discovered this dynamat trick in the past week, so thought I would give it a shot.

 

I literally cannot get over the difference this mod has made - it's like the drivers have been completely replaced and I have a new set of cans! The mid-bass hump feels tamed, the bass is supremely better and the clarity gain is unbelievable. It's like a constant but subtle 'white noise' in the background of these things have been completely removed too.

 

Before this mod, I couldn't legitimately compare these to my Shure SE 535s. Now, I can! They are absolutely INSANE through my Audioquest Dragonfly!

 

Thanks for the tip!

post #45 of 77

Ok,  So I have the phones since Thursday and have put maybe 30 hours on them. I modded them using blutack and then I added some cotton wool...... don't ask.

 

So my opinion of them?? They could have been great.... but ultimately They have left me slightly disappointed.

 

here's why:

 

The bass is just lacking, If you are listening to bass heavy music, the bass is present, but there is no visceral impact so to speak. There just does not seem to be any dynamism to the bass. Listening to Daft Punk or Skrillex or other bass heavy music is ok. You get the idea that the bass is there but it seems lacking. I never expected this to have less bass than my DT235 but it does, and the beyer is not a bass head phone. The bass just goes deeper and there seems to be greater impact. If Iisten to Alanis morisette or the ColdPlay or other pop like music that are not bass geared, there just seems to be no bass at all. The upper bass is there but its just like a light thud to me. I was surprised when I read one poster saying that these were bass heavy..... After hearing them then modding them and hearing the improvement in the bass, and still find it bass lacking, then I just had to shrug my shoulders. So for Bass heavy music, these are good cans. But for everything else they just lack the foundation that the bass should provide. I listened to Jordin Sparks Album with it and felt like I was listening to a great tweeter and midrange/midbass unit but the woofer was disconnected. The same for alot of what I listen to: simply red, Dave Matthews, Nat king Cole, Coldplay, Ben Folds Five, Muse..... the list goes on.

 

As to the rest.... The mids are more natural and clearer than the DT235 if a bit more forward, and the treble is a bit more extended and a bit cleaner. From midbass up, this is a nice headphone.

 

All of this was straight out of my ipod, or with the Ipod with an LOD and a PA2v2 amp. I wonder if an amp with a good bass boost would help this phone sound as good as it could.

 

 

All in all, good mids, good highs, definitely lacks bass. Just so you know, I have the K81DJ and they hit hard in the bass, but I prefer the DT235 over them any day, so I dont consider myself a bass freak. I ave also heard the Beats Studio, and wouldtake the AKG and DT235 and for that matter, the MDR-1R over them any day. 

 

I guess my next purchase is goint to be an amp with a bass boost, maybe the C&C BH or the Fiio E12. We'll see how that transpires.

 

Dudlew

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