Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › Zero Audio - ZH-DX200 Carbo Tenore | ZH-DX210 Carbo Basso (Carbon & Aluminium IEM) thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Zero Audio - ZH-DX200 Carbo Tenore | ZH-DX210 Carbo Basso (Carbon & Aluminium IEM) thread - Page 214

Poll Results: Which one would you order??

 
  • 74% (284)
    Carbo Tenore
  • 25% (99)
    Carbo Basso
383 Total Votes  
post #3196 of 5992
Great effort mate. beerchug.gif

I guess this mean that problem most likely lies with the drivers themselves and not the enclosures. A problem that cannot be rectified.
I can only hope now that I end up with a decent sounding pair - more importantly one that does not die on me too soon.
post #3197 of 5992
I had tried a tape vent mod when I first received my first pair. I remember hearing a difference. I'll try again this weekend and possibly super glue on the strain relief too.
post #3198 of 5992

I've tried sealing the vents with tape, as far as i could tell the soundstage was affected more than the bass response. Variance in the drivers themselves seems doubtful, if that were the case we would get a lot of pairs with channel imbalance. I am all out of ideas, maybe they intentionally changed the tuning during production...

post #3199 of 5992
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiesOfAzel View Post

I've tried sealing the vents with tape, as far as i could tell the soundstage was affected more than the bass response. Variance in the drivers themselves seems doubtful, if that were the case we would get a lot of pairs with channel imbalance. I am all out of ideas, maybe they intentionally changed the tuning during production...

I don't think they changed the tuning, because in that case there'd only be two different sound signatures. Instead the bass levels vary at more than two levels, as much as 10dB. They could match bassy drivers to bassy drivers and reference drivers to reference drivers (and bass light drivers to bass light drivers).
post #3200 of 5992
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

I don't think they changed the tuning, because in that case there'd only be two different sound signatures. Instead the bass levels vary at more than two levels, as much as 10dB. They could match bassy drivers to bassy drivers and reference drivers to reference drivers (and bass light drivers to bass light drivers).

You're assuming that all were tuning changes. It's entirely possible that bass heavy and "reference" bass are the two tunings and that the rolled off pair could be an anomaly.

We could have a situation of one tuning change and a quality control issue that could lead to multiple variations. Then you take into account user perceptions in the amount of several DB as "reference" and different personal HRTF curves, and the sky could be the limit.
post #3201 of 5992

Yes bass perception has been shown to vary a lot from person to person, that's why compensation curves are so hard to construct. To me the Tenores are actually flat even where they should be be rolling off (<=100hz) but there is no perceived lift. In fact i have to agree with luisdent, the Tenore sounds very similar to a HD600 with more sub bass and a smoother treble. My FA003s (for anyone that wonders they do indeed sound very similar to the HD600s) have a more peaky treble than both of those and a noticeable dip in the low mids which makes them sound cleaner but also leaner than they should. Anyway, to me, a Tenore with a proper roll  off in the sub bass area would be perfect as far as fr goes.

 

I am curious as to how much more bassy a bad pair would sound to me, i might get James to send me his warm pair to compare with the ones i own. 


Edited by SkiesOfAzel - 6/27/14 at 11:10am
post #3202 of 5992
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post

You're assuming that all were tuning changes. It's entirely possible that bass heavy and "reference" bass are the two tunings and that the rolled off pair could be an anomaly.

We could have a situation of one tuning change and a quality control issue that could lead to multiple variations. Then you take into account user perceptions in the amount of several DB as "reference" and different personal HRTF curves, and the sky could be the limit.

That's a good point. The two possibilities aren't mutually exclusive. It could be a tuning change coupled with QC issues. frown.gif

My experience however was that my three bassy pairs were much less alike than my reference pairs.
Edited by gnarlsagan - 6/27/14 at 11:43am
post #3203 of 5992

I've read one of the comparisons on an early post between the basso and tenore. Are the bassos just tenores with more bass quantity? I have the basso's but I'm curious if the tenores will sound completely different since everyone's on the tenore train.

post #3204 of 5992
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post

We could have a situation of one tuning change and a quality control issue that could lead to multiple variations. Then you take into account user perceptions in the amount of several DB as "reference" and different personal HRTF curves, and the sky could be the limit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiesOfAzel View Post
 

Yes bass perception has been shown to vary a lot from person to person, that's why compensation curves are so hard to construct. To me the Tenores are actually flat even where they should be be rolling off (<=100hz) but there is no perceived lift. In fact i have to agree with luisdent, the Tenore sounds very similar to a HD600 with more sub bass and a smoother treble. My FA003s (for anyone that wonders they do indeed sound very similar to the HD600s) have a more peaky treble than both of those and a noticeable dip in the low mids which makes them sound cleaner but also leaner than they should. Anyway, to me, a Tenore with a proper roll  off in the sub bass area would be perfect as far as fr goes.

 

X2 on the possible HRTF / perception variations, that's why I try to assess IEMs relatively to each other whenever possible.

 

Speaking of which, my RE600 and IE800 are the exact same units that Rin measured, and I can tell that even my "reference" Tenores' subbass is more elevated than the RE600's (while staying well below the IE800's).

post #3205 of 5992

+1

same question

post #3206 of 5992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miyaichi View Post
 

What about custom ear tips? Did anyone of you tried to pair the Tenore with a pair of custom ear tips, which you have previously made for an other pair of earphones?

And which size is the nozzle of the Tenore?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by archy121 View Post

Great effort mate. beerchug.gif

I guess this mean that problem most likely lies with the drivers themselves and not the enclosures. A problem that cannot be rectified.
I can only hope now that I end up with a decent sounding pair - more importantly one that does not die on me too soon.

I was just asking, cause I need a better isolation for traveling. 

post #3207 of 5992
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLiPKicks View Post
 

I've read one of the comparisons on an early post between the basso and tenore. Are the bassos just tenores with more bass quantity? I have the basso's but I'm curious if the tenores will sound completely different since everyone's on the tenore train.

 

I don't have the Bassos but they use a completely different driver so i doubt their only difference is the bass quantity.

post #3208 of 5992
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLiPKicks View Post
 

I've read one of the comparisons on an early post between the basso and tenore. Are the bassos just tenores with more bass quantity? I have the basso's but I'm curious if the tenores will sound completely different since everyone's on the tenore train.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiesOfAzel View Post
 

 

I don't have the Bassos but they use a completely different driver so i doubt their only difference is the bass quantity.

 

Yup, haven't tried them, but being the Tenore a microdriver, versus the big dynamic driver of the Bassos and the bigger housing it's not just the amount of bass. Or that's what I understand :p

post #3209 of 5992
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post

We could have a situation of one tuning change and a quality control issue that could lead to multiple variations. Then you take into account user perceptions in the amount of several DB as "reference" and different personal HRTF curves, and the sky could be the limit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiesOfAzel View Post
 

Yes bass perception has been shown to vary a lot from person to person, that's why compensation curves are so hard to construct. To me the Tenores are actually flat even where they should be be rolling off (<=100hz) but there is no perceived lift. In fact i have to agree with luisdent, the Tenore sounds very similar to a HD600 with more sub bass and a smoother treble. My FA003s (for anyone that wonders they do indeed sound very similar to the HD600s) have a more peaky treble than both of those and a noticeable dip in the low mids which makes them sound cleaner but also leaner than they should. Anyway, to me, a Tenore with a proper roll  off in the sub bass area would be perfect as far as fr goes.

 

X2 on the possible HRTF / perception variations, that's why I try to assess IEMs relatively to each other whenever possible.

 

Speaking of which, my RE600 and IE800 are the exact same units that Rin measured, and I can tell that even my "reference" Tenores' subbass is more elevated than the RE600's (while staying well below the IE800's).

 

That's insane, because I had the re400 which isn't as warm as the re600, and my reference tenores are in line with the re400 but sound lighter in tone due to the extended flat treble.

 

So far this is what I have found:

 

- Of 6 tenores in my possesion, 5 of them are within 1-3db of difference in the bass, with seemingly identical mid/treble. The other is a greater variance in bass (less bass).

- Super gluing the vent made zero difference in any sound whatsoever.

- Taping the vents completely with scotch tape didn't seem to make any audible difference at all. I'd have to test more, but I didn't detect anything noticeable.

- Based on impressions compared to other earphones I've heard myself, some people are indicating the bass on their sets is at least 6db or more greater than my sets, as I can easily compare the bass level of mine and their tenores based on my knowledge of the reference comparison earphone.

- I've never heard even more than 1-2db difference in any other earphone where I've compared multiple pairs, although I've seen it in the mh1c on graphs (only other case).

 

My thought on the venting would be that it's possible I didn't fully seal everything or the tape didn't properly block air, but the glue and tape appeared fully covered and bonded. So I don't know why others are experiencing otherwise, unless they are perceiving a change because the expect it. Otherwise, I would need to seal the top vent with glue, which I'm not going to do.

 

This whole comparing has led me to start EQing the ostry to match the tenore. Although not identical, I only need to cut the ostry's bass around 180-200hz by only 3.5db with a somewhat wide q value. The treble doesn't extend as high, but otherwise it is just a high quality in my opinion with a slightly different tone and less high air, but still great. The biggest pain in my arse is the fit though. I'm actually getting royally sick of getting a good fit with the tenore. Sometimes it's easier than others, but I have no idea why. It simply fits right away while other times I have to mess with it a lot to get the pressure and whatnot exact.

 

For this reason alone I think the ostry kicks butt. However, being so used to earphones that have some isolation and seal to them, the ostry almost always feel "wrong" because they seem like they aren't sealing good. But that's just the design. No tips or effort whatsoever allows them to seal better by any reasonable margin. But if you are in a quiet environment and get used to the feel of them this isn't a problem at all. In a loud environment, they still don't sound the best with isolation as you hear outside noises, but the bass does well and almost sounds more reference as it is slightly masked by ambient noise.

 

Overall, I prefer a mix of the two really, so I think these will be my two main iems until I find something better. But as much as I thought my search would end with the tenore I think I'm going to continue searching for something that meets all criteria for me. This almost sounds like the uerm, but I'm not ready to spend that and risk bad custom fit. Ugh.

 

That's my two cents anyway. I'll keep listening to messing with everything, but so far I still think these are the best two values I've ever heard...

post #3210 of 5992

Well so much for quality control of the ostry too. I ordered a new pair from an amazon seller with great rating (sorry sfwalcer I can't give up any tenores!).

 

Anyway, the bass on the ostry's is different and the jack is bent. Brand new, sealed well in a nice presentation. My kc06 also has a different bag than the one I have on loan. Not sure what that means? A revision perhaps? The model I have might have less bass and ironically sounds a lot more like the tenore. I'm not really sure yet. Might be the tips being new or something. I'd keep these as they might even sound better than the pair I'm testing, but the bent connector worries me. They still work, but I don't want it putting pressure on my jacks....  blargh


Edited by luisdent - 6/27/14 at 4:25pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › Zero Audio - ZH-DX200 Carbo Tenore | ZH-DX210 Carbo Basso (Carbon & Aluminium IEM) thread