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Zero Audio - ZH-DX200 Carbo Tenore | ZH-DX210 Carbo Basso (Carbon & Aluminium IEM) thread - Page 196

Poll Results: Which one would you order??

 
  • 74% (288)
    Carbo Tenore
  • 25% (100)
    Carbo Basso
388 Total Votes  
post #2926 of 6004

Seems like things have changed with the time, I started reading on this thread that Basso's were "better" than Tenores and now, seems like everybody loves Tenore!

So I guess that i'm going to buy a pair, I ended really hyped up after reading about them here :p

I was just worried about the "bassier" and "reference" thing, it is really an issue? :(

post #2927 of 6004
Quote:
Originally Posted by oMalakai View Post
 

Seems like things have changed with the time, I started reading on this thread that Basso's were "better" than Tenores and now, seems like everybody loves Tenore!

So I guess that i'm going to buy a pair, I ended really hyped up after reading about them here :p

I was just worried about the "bassier" and "reference" thing, it is really an issue? :(

 

I am more restrained than most here, i only have two pairs to compare :D. They sound identical as far as i can tell, but on pair has a shorter cable and is harder to get a seal with, which probably means it is more vented. I would expect it to also have more bass in that case though, so i may be wrong with my guess.

 

Unfortunately there are some reports in this thread that show non trivial variations. +- 7 db in the bass region is a huge difference, so yes, it certainly is an issue and the only reason the Tenore is hard to recommend. You could of course test your pair with sine sweeps and tones, a variation as big as this would be easy to notice. If the variation is small you can take care of it with the right tips.

 

Both my pairs seem flat to my ears when i test the sub bass to low mids section with tones. With that said, music perception isn't the same thing as tones and since the sub bass doesn't roll off almost at all, it can mask bass impact which is presented in the high bass to low mids region, so i'd advice a vent mode on the flanges or even better, long double flanges. The later option is preferable to my ears since it improves the Tenores in practically everything, including soundstage depth width and height, instrument separation, impact and treble clarity (and probably macro dynamics). The S200 Comply tips are also supposed to be a good fit for these, but the pairs i've ordered are probably lost somewhere at sea so i can't give you more detailed impressions.

 

You also have to take their sound signature into consideration. These aren't meant to wow you with coloration, they are neutral which means no warm mids or bright highs. These are also not an analytical pair, if you love getting hit in the face with enhanced detail you wont like them. Their purpose is to reproduce the recorded sound without taking many liberties with it. They are kind of like a less warm but a lot smoother GR07. They have a more 3d presentation though, and with the right tips the soundstage is noticeably bigger as well, which makes them sound more exciting. The only part of the frequency they enhance is the high mids to lower treble segment, which is something that Ety does as well with their iems. I suspect they do it to improve harmonics and imaging, but whatever the reason behind it, the important part is that it's implemented gradually, without introducing any annoying spikes that could make them sound fatiguing.

 

Another factor you should take into account is your preferred listening volume. These love to get more juice, they sound better with mid to high volume so if you are primarily into low volume listening, get something else.


Edited by SkiesOfAzel - 6/20/14 at 12:04pm
post #2928 of 6004
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiesOfAzel View Post

Another factor you should take into account is your preferred listening volume. These love to get more juice, they sound better with mid to high volume so if you are primarily into low volume listening, get something else.

Agreed. These sound significantly better at moderate to louder volumes.
post #2929 of 6004

OK these are sounding a ton more open with the double flange tips. Still a touch smooth though. Female vocals are really remarkable, e.g. this.

 

post #2930 of 6004
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiesOfAzel View Post
  Explanation (Click to show)

I am more restrained than most here, i only have two pairs to compare :D. They sound identical as far as i can tell, but on pair has a shorter cable and is harder to get a seal with, which probably means it is more vented. I would expect it to also have more bass in that case though, so i may be wrong with my guess.

 

Unfortunately there are some reports in this thread that show non trivial variations. +- 7 db in the bass region is a huge difference, so yes, it certainly is an issue and the only reason the Tenore is hard to recommend. You could of course test your pair with sine sweeps and tones, a variation as big as this would be easy to notice. If the variation is small you can take care of it with the right tips.

 

Both my pairs seem flat to my ears when i test the sub bass to low mids section with tones. With that said, music perception isn't the same thing as tones and since the sub bass doesn't roll off almost at all, it can mask bass impact which is presented in the high bass to low mids region, so i'd advice a vent mode on the flanges or even better, long double flanges. The later option is preferable to my ears since it improves the Tenores in practically everything, including soundstage depth width and height, instrument separation, impact and treble clarity (and probably macro dynamics). The S200 Comply tips are also supposed to be a good fit for these, but the pairs i've ordered are probably lost somewhere at sea so i can't give you more detailed impressions.

 

You also have to take their sound signature into consideration. These aren't meant to wow you with coloration, they are neutral which means no warm mids or bright highs. These are also not an analytical pair, if you love getting hit in the face with enhanced detail you wont like them. Their purpose is to reproduce the recorded sound without taking many liberties with it. They are kind of like a less warm but a lot smoother GR07. They have a more 3d presentation though, and with the right tips the soundstage is noticeably bigger as well, which makes them sound more exciting. The only part of the frequency they enhance is the high mids to lower treble segment, which is something that Ety does as well with their iems. I suspect they do it to improve harmonics and imaging, but whatever the reason behind it, the important part is that it's implemented gradually, without introducing any annoying spikes that could make them sound fatiguing.

 

Another factor you should take into account is your preferred listening volume. These love to get more juice, they sound better with mid to high volume so if you are primarily into low volume listening, get something else.

 

Thanks, that's just what I needed to read.

Sounds great to me then, I wouldn't mind too much getting the bassier one, so I'm going to take the risk. I guess that i'm just going to get used to the signature, but, for example, I tested the Sound Magic HP100 of a friend, and I thought that they were a bit lame, and the lacked bass, but it was a short listening session. Also, I think that I like more In ears. My only previous experience were the Brainwavz M3 that are supposed to be a bit warm, and with lush mids, and I really liked'em, I just eq'd a bit to get more highs. So, I don´t want brutal detail, I just want to be able to hear subtle details when I´m putting attention to the music in my house, for example. The soundstage part caught my attention, I love when you get the out of your head feeling when listening to music so I'm sure that i'm going to enjoy that. And the volume thing, it's ok, I usually listen to music at mid to high volume.

Thanks for your time, probably gonna get a pair of Tenore as soon as posible :D

post #2931 of 6004
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiesOfAzel View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oMalakai View Post
 

Seems like things have changed with the time, I started reading on this thread that Basso's were "better" than Tenores and now, seems like everybody loves Tenore!

So I guess that i'm going to buy a pair, I ended really hyped up after reading about them here :p

I was just worried about the "bassier" and "reference" thing, it is really an issue? :(

 

I am more restrained than most here, i only have two pairs to compare :D. They sound identical as far as i can tell, but on pair has a shorter cable and is harder to get a seal with, which probably means it is more vented. I would expect it to also have more bass in that case though, so i may be wrong with my guess.

 

Unfortunately there are some reports in this thread that show non trivial variations. +- 7 db in the bass region is a huge difference, so yes, it certainly is an issue and the only reason the Tenore is hard to recommend. You could of course test your pair with sine sweeps and tones, a variation as big as this would be easy to notice. If the variation is small you can take care of it with the right tips.

 

Both my pairs seem flat to my ears when i test the sub bass to low mids section with tones. With that said, music perception isn't the same thing as tones and since the sub bass doesn't roll off almost at all, it can mask bass impact which is presented in the high bass to low mids region, so i'd advice a vent mode on the flanges or even better, long double flanges. The later option is preferable to my ears since it improves the Tenores in practically everything, including soundstage depth width and height, instrument separation, impact and treble clarity (and probably macro dynamics). The S200 Comply tips are also supposed to be a good fit for these, but the pairs i've ordered are probably lost somewhere at sea so i can't give you more detailed impressions.

 

You also have to take their sound signature into consideration. These aren't meant to wow you with coloration, they are neutral which means no warm mids or bright highs. These are also not an analytical pair, if you love getting hit in the face with enhanced detail you wont like them. Their purpose is to reproduce the recorded sound without taking many liberties with it. They are kind of like a less warm but a lot smoother GR07. They have a more 3d presentation though, and with the right tips the soundstage is noticeably bigger as well, which makes them sound more exciting. The only part of the frequency they enhance is the high mids to lower treble segment, which is something that Ety does as well with their iems. I suspect they do it to improve harmonics and imaging, but whatever the reason behind it, the important part is that it's implemented gradually, without introducing any annoying spikes that could make them sound fatiguing.

 

Another factor you should take into account is your preferred listening volume. These love to get more juice, they sound better with mid to high volume so if you are primarily into low volume listening, get something else.

 

I agree on all of this. However, I wouldn't say they're bad at low volumes. They're excellent in my opinion. But I do agree they might sound a bit improved as the volume increases from low to mid/high.

post #2932 of 6004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuff Jones View Post
 

OK these are sounding a ton more open with the double flange tips. Still a touch smooth though. Female vocals are really remarkable, e.g. this.

 

Yes they are smooth because they have no spikes in the treble, that's the reason i love them so much. I like my treble as much as the next guy, but i am very sensitive to treble spikes. I've been searching for an iem that could manage a smooth, non recessed and tonally correct treble for years. I think it's ironic that my second cheapest iem managed to do what 200$ pairs couldn't.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by oMalakai View Post

 

Thanks, that's just what I needed to read.

Sounds great to me then, I wouldn't mind too much getting the bassier one, so I'm going to take the risk. I guess that i'm just going to get used to the signature, but, for example, I tested the Sound Magic HP100 of a friend, and I thought that they were a bit lame, and the lacked bass, but it was a short listening session. Also, I think that I like more In ears. My only previous experience were the Brainwavz M3 that are supposed to be a bit warm, and with lush mids, and I really liked'em, I just eq'd a bit to get more highs. So, I don´t want brutal detail, I just want to be able to hear subtle details when I´m putting attention to the music in my house, for example. The soundstage part caught my attention, I love when you get the out of your head feeling when listening to music so I'm sure that i'm going to enjoy that. And the volume thing, it's ok, I usually listen to music at mid to high volume.

Thanks for your time, probably gonna get a pair of Tenore as soon as posible :D

 

I haven't listened to the HP100 so i can't help you there but the Tenores can't be described as lacking in bass quantity. They have more than it's considered neutral, they just don't have a mid/high bass bump to color the sound. In fact their sub bass is too flat, they would sound better if it rolled off gently at ~100hz, even my bassiest iem does that (DDM). The Tenore is also lacking in bass texture and rumble compared to really good regular sized dynamic iems but that seems to be a limitation with all current micro dynamic drivers. On the plus side though, the bass sounds clean, it doesn't distort and you can feel it, not just hear it (unlike some ba implementations :p).

 

Don't worry about detail, there is plenty of it with the Tenores, it's all there, just not boosted. The soundstage is very tip dependent, make sure to order some flanges alongside it if you don't have a good stash already ;)


Edited by SkiesOfAzel - 6/20/14 at 1:00pm
post #2933 of 6004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuff Jones View Post
 

OK these are sounding a ton more open with the double flange tips. Still a touch smooth though. Female vocals are really remarkable, e.g. this.

 

 

This must sound great on CD. Almost like a modern stan getz.

post #2934 of 6004
Stan Getz??? He's a saxophonist, not a singer. You probably mean Astrud Gilberto.
post #2935 of 6004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francisk View Post

Stan Getz??? He's a saxophonist, not a singer. You probably mean Astrud Gilberto.

 

I was about to comment that the sax sounded a bit off-timbre, but you beat me to it. ;)

post #2936 of 6004
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

I was about to comment that the sax sounded a bit off-timbre, but you beat me to it. wink.gif

biggrin.gif:D:D
post #2937 of 6004
I actually really like the Tenores at low volumes... *hides*
post #2938 of 6004
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

I actually really like the Tenores at low volumes... *hides*

The bassier variants sound much better at higher volumes. However with james444 tip mod or s200 tips, low volume listening is pretty good.
post #2939 of 6004
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post

The bassier variants sound much better at higher volumes. However with james444 tip mod or s200 tips, low volume listening is pretty good.

Yeah I use those wide bore Senn doubles, so I get crisp treble with my pairs. More crisp than the ER4S for example, without that ~7k dip. A few earlier pairs I had were definitely smoother treble-wise, and needed a little more volume imo.

Was interested in those Jays tips but they cost like $15... I should prob just go for it lol. Do you have an S200 source? Still need to give those Philips tips a shot as well.
post #2940 of 6004
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

Was interested in those Jays tips but they cost like $15... I should prob just go for it lol. Do you have an S200 source? Still need to give those Philips tips a shot as well.

 

Are you talking about the Jays foam tips? If so, where are they available for $15?

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