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Zero Audio - ZH-DX200 Carbo Tenore | ZH-DX210 Carbo Basso (Carbon & Aluminium IEM) thread - Page 181

Poll Results: Which one would you order??

 
  • 74% (288)
    Carbo Tenore
  • 25% (100)
    Carbo Basso
388 Total Votes  
post #2701 of 6000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bboy500 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post
 

 

Even the +7db bass variance is still not really basshead levels. Some people even argue between needing +6db of bass in general to be neutral. That's another story all together, but essentially you'll get a very smooth linear response with no big flaws. The bassier sets will be warm and softer sounding while the more neutral sets will sound more open and balanced. If you get a bass light set, well, other than deep insertion, which might be fine depending on the user, that variation in my opinion is just overly bright and not very balanced sounding, although still fairly smooth in response, without major peaks/dips, that is, in isolated areas, just overall less bass. But it seems like the variances can either be eliminated or at least reduced based upon insertion depth.

 

Inserting the bass light pair very deep gives essentially the same sound as the reference pairs fitted shallow. If you wear the reference pair mid ear, the bass heavy version can be made a little closer to that by wearing them very shallow. But this is highly dependent on the user's ears, and I wouldn't assume you can fully correct either variance without first hearing each set. But it's something to try at a minimum.

 

As I said, I am not a basshead. I don't need huge levels of bass. IEM's I am looking for either need to sound equal/neutral and be solid at lows, mids and highs (They don't have to be great at any, just be good enough at all 3.).. Or have a nice amount of bass in so that I "forget" about the lower qualities of an IEM.

 

My issue with the KC06 is that while the mids are pretty damn great, the bass isn't all that good from my previous $15 IEM and the highs sound pretty awful to me. The bass doesn't do anywhere near close of a job of covering up the bad highs and it just ruins most songs I listen to. They end up not very enjoyable to listen to.

 

Hope that helps describe what I am looking for (At around the $60 range, though I will go higher if needed)

 

I think the tenores would probably work for you. At a minimum, not matter what variance, most people agree the treble is good, smooth and detailed. The bass, unless you get a very bass light version, is neutralish to warm, but both have a fairly solid low end in terms of balance with the whole spectrum. No part of the spectrum sounds "bad". And for $50 I don't think you'll find anything near the quality of these with either bass variation. Treble in iems is very peaky or dipped in even high end models. There are a few nice iems, but without knowing exactly what you consider the "right amount" of bass, it's hard to recommend anything exact. But the pfe112 is very neutral and has good bass. But it has a peaky treble up high, which isn't very bad, in fact it's very nice sounding treble, but it does have a good peak at 10khz that could be bothersome to some. The bass is considered on the light side, but I find it very reference in volume and quality for the most part.

 

The tdk ba200 is very nice as well, but both of these sets cost closer to $200, and neither sound as good as the tenore in my opinion. I'd risk it for $50, but obviously that is a very personal and financial decision...

post #2702 of 6000
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post
 

 

I think the tenores would probably work for you. At a minimum, not matter what variance, most people agree the treble is good, smooth and detailed. The bass, unless you get a very bass light version, is neutralish to warm, but both have a fairly solid low end in terms of balance with the whole spectrum. No part of the spectrum sounds "bad". And for $50 I don't think you'll find anything near the quality of these with either bass variation. Treble in iems is very peaky or dipped in even high end models. There are a few nice iems, but without knowing exactly what you consider the "right amount" of bass, it's hard to recommend anything exact. But the pfe112 is very neutral and has good bass. But it has a peaky treble up high, which isn't very bad, in fact it's very nice sounding treble, but it does have a good peak at 10khz that could be bothersome to some. The bass is considered on the light side, but I find it very reference in volume and quality for the most part.

 

The tdk ba200 is very nice as well, but both of these sets cost closer to $200, and neither sound as good as the tenore in my opinion. I'd risk it for $50, but obviously that is a very personal and financial decision...

 

I thought you were saying the regular ones are unbalanced in your earlier post? *Confused* And how do I get a non-bass light version? Is that random from the shipper?

 

I don't mind a little peaky treble, I just don't want a Ultrasone Pro 900 amount of treble. That is the one headphone that is absolutely unlistenable for me because of the huge treble spikes.

post #2703 of 6000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bboy500 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post
 

 

I think the tenores would probably work for you. At a minimum, not matter what variance, most people agree the treble is good, smooth and detailed. The bass, unless you get a very bass light version, is neutralish to warm, but both have a fairly solid low end in terms of balance with the whole spectrum. No part of the spectrum sounds "bad". And for $50 I don't think you'll find anything near the quality of these with either bass variation. Treble in iems is very peaky or dipped in even high end models. There are a few nice iems, but without knowing exactly what you consider the "right amount" of bass, it's hard to recommend anything exact. But the pfe112 is very neutral and has good bass. But it has a peaky treble up high, which isn't very bad, in fact it's very nice sounding treble, but it does have a good peak at 10khz that could be bothersome to some. The bass is considered on the light side, but I find it very reference in volume and quality for the most part.

 

The tdk ba200 is very nice as well, but both of these sets cost closer to $200, and neither sound as good as the tenore in my opinion. I'd risk it for $50, but obviously that is a very personal and financial decision...

 

I thought you were saying the regular ones are unbalanced in your earlier post? *Confused* And how do I get a non-bass light version? Is that random from the shipper?

 

I don't mind a little peaky treble, I just don't want a Ultrasone Pro 900 amount of treble. That is the one headphone that is absolutely unlistenable for me because of the huge treble spikes.

 

No peaky treble in any sets i've heard. Very nice treble.

 

My reference sets are the "5" pairs I mentioned (4 are mine, 1 is gnarlsagan's). These 5 sets have what I consider perfect bass. linear with the rest of the spectrum and very natural sounding. The other pair from gnarlsagan has noticeably less bass and doesn't sound good without a very deep fit. The "warmer" "bassier" pairs are what other people have mentioned and gnarlsagan also described having a few of them.

 

The variance appears to be random and not dependent on where you get them. The bass light pair gnarlsagan got was from the same seller i got my reference pairs from. The bass light version seems the rarest. Most seem to be neutral to bass boosted. But again, in any configuration, I find them the best value and still very good quality. I just think the reference response is worth trying to get if you can. :)

post #2704 of 6000
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post
 

 

No peaky treble in any sets i've heard. Very nice treble.

 

My reference sets are the "5" pairs I mentioned (4 are mine, 1 is gnarlsagan's). These 5 sets have what I consider perfect bass. linear with the rest of the spectrum and very natural sounding. The other pair from gnarlsagan has noticeably less bass and doesn't sound good without a very deep fit. The "warmer" "bassier" pairs are what other people have mentioned and gnarlsagan also described having a few of them.

 

The variance appears to be random and not dependent on where you get them. The bass light pair gnarlsagan got was from the same seller i got my reference pairs from. The bass light version seems the rarest. Most seem to be neutral to bass boosted. But again, in any configuration, I find them the best value and still very good quality. I just think the reference response is worth trying to get if you can. :)

 

 

Alright thanks :) Going to give the KC06's a couple of more days before I return them but I will probably be getting these a try right after.

post #2705 of 6000
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post
 

I just think the reference response is worth trying to get if you can. :)

 

You know what, considering there seems to be an unknown number of variations out there, I'd be willing to pay premium for a hand-picked "luisdent" reference Tenore. :smile_phones: 

post #2706 of 6000

Thanks for the work you guys have put in trying to get to the bottom of the variance between sets. 

 

I'm leaning towards buying a couple of pairs at the same time in the hopes of having some kind of baseline with which to evaluate whether I've ended up with a non-reference set. 

 

It's a purely personal thing, but the stories of them subtly losing volume in one ear activates the PTSD I got when I had that happen with a custom built pair of $1200 pair of headphones with discontinued drivers.  It's the irritation of having that uncertainty that has kept me holding off.  Also having a couple of IEMs that I haven't even auditioned yet, which causes me to feel guilty about adding to the collection. 

 

I like that these are cheap enough that having a problem pop up on a pair isn't a major hassle.  Wish I could say the same for my Westones. 

post #2707 of 6000
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post

 
I just think the reference response is worth trying to get if you can. smily_headphones1.gif

You know what, considering there seems to be an unknown number of variations out there, I'd be willing to pay premium for a hand-picked "luisdent" reference Tenore. smile_phones.gif  
Bwahaha! I'll sell them for the low price of only $999 ;-)
post #2708 of 6000
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

Interesting, from your EQ setting it seems the variance on the "bassless" set starts as high up as 400Hz and evens out below 200Hz. This would, by implication, make a "bassy" set sound warm.

However, on my (and probably vwinter's) set, mid/upper bass sounds lacking and only deep bass boosted. This doesn't sound warm at all and would result in quite a different EQ curve.

What you're describing does indeed sound different from my bassy sets, which sounded warm precisely because the bass boost went up to at least 200Hz.

So maybe you and vwinter have reference sets but just hear the bass differently. To my ears it is quite linear. But then it should be around K3003 levels iirc (the later less bassy K3003... lol here we go again with variance). That would be a fun comparison to make.
post #2709 of 6000
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post


What you're describing does indeed sound different from my bassy sets, which sounded warm precisely because the bass boost went up to at least 200Hz.

So maybe you and vwinter have reference sets but just hear the bass differently. To my ears it is quite linear. But then it should be around K3003 levels iirc (the later less bassy K3003... lol here we go again with variance). That would be a fun comparison to make.

 

That's exactly why I posted that test track earlier on. Sound descriptions are subjective and people hear differently, but relative comparisons to other phones we have in common should be pretty consistent.

 

My Tenores sound somewhat sucked out in mid/upper bass and skewed towards deep bass compared to the UERM, K3003, Heaven A, M200, GR10, KC06 and IE800 with this track. So, unless all these other phones are considered mid/upper bass enhanced, my pair of Tenores can't be reference.

 

I'd particularly like to call your attention to the IE800 in that regard. I'm listening to the same unit that Rin measured and you can see in the graph that there's a steady rise towards deep bass. Yet it still conveys more body and dynamics in the mid/upper bass region than my Tenores with this track. Which is quite puzzling, because its deep bass is actually stronger than the latter's and if anything should result in more mid/upper bass masking, not less.

 

All this made me suspect that there might be something odd going on in the time domain with the Tenores, but those in the know (;)) say that's not possible. Which, I'm afraid to say, leaves me pretty much out of explanations for what I'm hearing.

post #2710 of 6000
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post


So far any foam dampening behind the filter is just a theory. Mochill is the only one who knows so maybe he could chime in. I think it makes sense though, as many iems use some kind of damper to affect FR.

Personally, what I would do (and almost did before deciding to return my bassy pair) is take off the filter and then listen. If it were still too bassy, I'd check for a damper and reduce its size. If it was foam I'd cut some of it off, and if it was just a filter I'd poke a hole in it and put it back. Of course I'd only do this if I couldn't return them.

Thanks for all the help Gnarlsagan. I really need to find time to do this mod and I hope I'll get some time off soon.

post #2711 of 6000
Quote:
Originally Posted by mochill View Post

You get less bass bloat with the filter removable method smily_headphones1.gif

Thanks for the info Mochill

post #2712 of 6000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francisk View Post
 

Thanks for the info Mochill

 

I wouldn't remove the filters, you can't predict what effect it might have to the rest of the frequencies, not to mention the longevity of your pair. There are less intrusive (and safer) ways to reduce  bass output. You can try James' mod, or you can open small holes at the top of the tips you use (2 very small holes around the rim of each tip should do the trick).

post #2713 of 6000
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiesOfAzel View Post
 

 

I wouldn't remove the filters, you can't predict what effect it might have to the rest of the frequencies, not to mention the longevity of your pair. There are less intrusive (and safer) ways to reduce  bass output. You can try James' mod, or you can open small holes at the top of the tips you use (2 very small holes around the rim of each tip should do the trick).

 

I don't know, man. Mochill is one of the most respected head-fiers around, so if he suggests something, chances are you should do it! 

 

:biggrin:

post #2714 of 6000
Quote:
Originally Posted by roy_jones View Post
 

 

I don't know, man. Mochill is one of the most respected head-fiers around, so if he suggests something, chances are you should do it! 

 

:biggrin:

I must be doing something wrong as I do opposite of what he says.  :(

post #2715 of 6000
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post

I must be doing something wrong as I do opposite of what he says.  frown.gif

Let's see...

Kept Tenore - CHECK
Kept X5 - CHECK
Not recommending irreversible mods - CHECK

Yup, you're the anti-Mochill wink_face.gif
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