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Zero Audio - ZH-DX200 Carbo Tenore | ZH-DX210 Carbo Basso (Carbon & Aluminium IEM) thread - Page 169

Poll Results: Which one would you order??

 
  • 73% (274)
    Carbo Tenore
  • 26% (97)
    Carbo Basso
371 Total Votes  
post #2521 of 5954
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiesOfAzel View Post
 

 

Well, since they are made with a different material it makes sense that they seal differently, which usually affects sound. They meelec biflanges are reportedly reducing the sub-bass and increasing the size of the soundstage. I take it you don't get those benefits? If you want less sub-bass you should also consider the comply s-200, Shane posted that it does just that.


The soundstage is good yes, but everything else about sound is lacking. The bass isn't textured, the mids are a bit recessed and the treble is not even close to the clarity, detail and sparkle I get with sony hybrids. I must be having very different ears as most tenore owners but I still find sony hybrids best tips by far. They add a bit subbass tho, but I like that. Tryed meelec and vsonic single and biflanges, some lunashop tf10 tips, some sennheiser tips, even pistons baby silicone grade tips haha. Wide or narrow bore, they all don't sound as good as hybrids to me.

post #2522 of 5954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastapipo View Post


Nice thanks! I knew they used the same drivers, only tuned different.
I think its a matter of perspective, since I found the tenores far to smooth. Maybe siblant is neutral to me wink.gif

 

I love the AT style treble but it's always a little peaky in this region. It has some really nice air to it though :).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by avlad View Post
 


The soundstage is good yes, but everything else about sound is lacking. The bass isn't textured, the mids are a bit recessed and the treble is not even close to the clarity, detail and sparkle I get with sony hybrids. I must be having very different ears as most tenore owners but I still find sony hybrids best tips by far. They add a bit subbass tho, but I like that. Tryed meelec and vsonic single and biflanges, some lunashop tf10 tips, some sennheiser tips, even pistons baby silicone grade tips haha. Wide or narrow bore, they all don't sound as good as hybrids to me.

 

If it seals well, the shape of the flange might just not agree with your ear canals. Well, the large hybrids turned my Tenores to a subwoofer so i don't like them :P. The medium ones were better but they didn't want to stay put, no seal whatsoever. They seal just fine with other phones so go figure ...


Edited by SkiesOfAzel - 6/8/14 at 2:18pm
post #2523 of 5954
Quote:
Originally Posted by avlad View Post
 


The soundstage is good yes, but everything else about sound is lacking. The bass isn't textured, the mids are a bit recessed and the treble is not even close to the clarity, detail and sparkle I get with sony hybrids. I must be having very different ears as most tenore owners but I still find sony hybrids best tips by far. They add a bit subbass tho, but I like that. Tryed meelec and vsonic single and biflanges, some lunashop tf10 tips, some sennheiser tips, even pistons baby silicone grade tips haha. Wide or narrow bore, they all don't sound as good as hybrids to me.


Are you talking about these Lunashops TF10 tips? http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=4156 - they look hybrid to me?

post #2524 of 5954

Yes, those tf10 tips. They work very good on my pistons, in fact out of my collection they really shine on pistons, but not good on tenores.

post #2525 of 5954

Man, different tips really change the sound on these. Recently I've been using the large Hifiman biflanges with great results. For my ears, a shallow fit sounds much better than a deeper one. A deep fit for me makes the bass bloated and makes everything sounds really closed in.

post #2526 of 5954
Quote:
Originally Posted by avlad View Post
 

Yes, those tf10 tips. They work very good on my pistons, in fact out of my collection they really shine on pistons, but not good on tenores.


Got these tips from another set of cheap in-ears, and they are the best fit for my Pistons as well.  Wonder if it's the same as those hybrid TF10 tips?  And, coincidentally these didn't work well with Tenores either.

 

 

 

post #2527 of 5954
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3NTAL View Post

Thanks for the "tips"  -  I will try finding some of the transparent meelecs.

I wasn't expecting any sort of technical marvel, I was just making sure nobody thought I was actually comparing them to the UERM or JH13 in technical ability.

I've heard universal versions of the UERM and JH13, and I'd take my "good" Tenore over both of them. The JH13 had too much midbass for my taste, coloring the midrange in an obvious way. The UERM is better imo, but still the mids were just a tad recessed and treble peaks were an issue. I've heard from reliable sources however that treble issues are corrected with a custom fit.
post #2528 of 5954

It's obvious by the shape of the default tips (wide diameter, short height) that the Tenores aren't meant for deep insertion. That's why, in theory at least , biflanges should work well with these. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post


I've heard universal versions of the UERM and JH13, and I'd take my "good" Tenore over both of them. The JH13 had too much midbass for my taste, coloring the midrange in an obvious way. The UERM is better imo, but still the mids were just a tad recessed and treble peaks were an issue. I've heard from reliable sources however that treble issues are corrected with a custom fit.
 
While i certainly don't doubt that you would, I find it a little hard to believe that a single microdriver could go toe to toe with monsters such as these. Technical proficiency isn't limited to FR, iems with so many drivers give the engineer the ability to tweak attack, reverb, decay, positioning, soundstage and other factors that can add to timbre, detail and presentation. How significant are the results of those tweaks is kind of subjective too. We all know the law of diminishing return with audio gear but for those that are willing to pay more than 500$ for a pair of phones those returns are obviously worth it. 
post #2529 of 5954
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

I've heard universal versions of the UERM and JH13, and I'd take my "good" Tenore over both of them. The JH13 had too much midbass for my taste, coloring the midrange in an obvious way. The UERM is better imo, but still the mids were just a tad recessed and treble peaks were an issue. I've heard from reliable sources however that treble issues are corrected with a custom fit.

I've had mine for a good hour now rolleyes.gif
Unless there are very significant changes with burn in: FR-wise, these are phenominal. They are however rough around the edges in terms of the tuned the characteristics of the driver, and in that the UERM (and to a lesser degree the JH13) are significantly ahead of these. I don't see these being able to get anywhere near the clarity of the UERM in any way, at all, as just a single example.

But, I am enjoying these a whole lot. Looking forward to spending a lot more time getting to know them.
post #2530 of 5954
Holds tongue.
Edited by luisdent - 6/8/14 at 6:41pm
post #2531 of 5954
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post

I've had mine for a good hour now rolleyes.gif
Unless there are very significant changes with burn in: FR-wise, these are phenominal. They are however rough around the edges in terms of the tuned the characteristics of the driver, and in that the UERM (and to a lesser degree the JH13) are significantly ahead of these. I don't see these being able to get anywhere near the clarity of the UERM in any way, at all, as just a single example.

But, I am enjoying these a whole lot. Looking forward to spending a lot more time getting to know them.

You forget I'm am FR whore :P
post #2532 of 5954
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post

Holds tongue.

It's not even close. tongue.gif

I'll obviously give it time, but It's really less about the IEM itself and more about the ear that tuned it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

You forget I'm am FR whore :P

Don't ever change smile.gif
Edited by vwinter - 6/8/14 at 6:56pm
post #2533 of 5954
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post

I've had mine for a good hour now rolleyes.gif
Unless there are very significant changes with burn in: FR-wise, these are phenominal. They are however rough around the edges in terms of the tuned the characteristics of the driver, and in that the UERM (and to a lesser degree the JH13) are significantly ahead of these. I don't see these being able to get anywhere near the clarity of the UERM in any way, at all, as just a single example.

But, I am enjoying these a whole lot. Looking forward to spending a lot more time getting to know them.

You forget I'm am FR whore :P

If you're a FR whore, I'm a FR crack whore...
post #2534 of 5954
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post

I've had mine for a good hour now rolleyes.gif
Unless there are very significant changes with burn in: FR-wise, these are phenominal. They are however rough around the edges in terms of the tuned the characteristics of the driver, and in that the UERM (and to a lesser degree the JH13) are significantly ahead of these. I don't see these being able to get anywhere near the clarity of the UERM in any way, at all, as just a single example.

But, I am enjoying these a whole lot. Looking forward to spending a lot more time getting to know them.

I've thought of a good analogy when considering FR vs other sound characteristics. An iem with good decay and attack but with a bad FR is like an amazing dancer whose routine is absolutely breathtaking, except a major portion of their routine involves punching me in the face. An iem with average attack and decay, but a brilliant FR is like an average dancer whose routine is still impressive but maybe not with the technical nuance of the former dancer. And they aren't punching me in the face, something I consider a plus.

I'm not claiming this analogy works for the UERM and Tenore, but in general it's what I've found to be the case in the audio world.
post #2535 of 5954
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post


I've thought of a good analogy when considering FR vs other sound characteristics. An iem with good decay and attack but with a bad FR is like an amazing dancer whose routine is absolutely breathtaking, except a major portion of their routine involves punching me in the face. An iem with average attack and decay, but a brilliant FR is like an average dancer whose routine is still impressive but maybe not with the technical nuance of the former dancer. And they aren't punching me in the face, something I consider a plus.

I'm not claiming this analogy works for the UERM and Tenore, but in general it's what I've found to be the case in the audio world.

 

This is an incredibly effective analogy. Kudos.

 

 

I still have SGS' Tenore, but I haven't posted the comparisons to other iems because I've been under the weather. I'm waiting until my ailment clears before touching them again..that way, the Tenore doesn't become a great sounding anthrax package.


Edited by eke2k6 - 6/8/14 at 11:26pm
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