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Zero Audio - ZH-DX200 Carbo Tenore | ZH-DX210 Carbo Basso (Carbon & Aluminium IEM) thread - Page 154

Poll Results: Which one would you order??

 
  • 73% (274)
    Carbo Tenore
  • 26% (97)
    Carbo Basso
371 Total Votes  
post #2296 of 5962
Stop this madness 😞
post #2297 of 5962
Quote:
Originally Posted by qilto View Post

I have to say, these things have a really good frequency response. Super flat with a slight downward slope. The only thing I wish were better on these are the dynamics, they sound really compressed on the Tenore. This makes the Tenore seem rather lifeless and unnatural sometimes. 

What about at differing volume levels for you? Some have reported more energy and better dynamics at louder volumes versus lower volumes.
post #2298 of 5962
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikaveli06 View Post
 

i just switched back to the bi-flange meelec tips.  I like these even more than the spiral dots

Interesting.  I've been touting the bi-flange MEE tips from the 1st post and was going to try the spiral dots.

 

Those of you who want to take the Tenore to another level, try the bi-flange MEE tips!  Especially those who find them too bassy.  These tips tighten up the bass.


Edited by Grayson73 - 6/2/14 at 10:40am
post #2299 of 5962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayson73 View Post
 

Interesting.  I've been touting the bi-flange MEE tips from the 1st post and was going to try the spiral dots.

 

Those of you who want to take the Tenore to another level, try the bi-flange MEE tips!

 

Trying them out (from the stock medium tips). Sounds good, but where did the bass go lol? Ok, it's still there, but I'm gonna have to let my ears adapt...

post #2300 of 5962

Yeah, I'm enjoying the heck out of my Tenores so far. Any suggestions guys on some sort of Amp/DAC solution for my Tenores as well as ~250Ohm headphones? It's mainly for use on my PC at home but the main issue I have is I'm using a V-Moda BoomPro mic on my headphones (Essentially a detachable cable with a microphone on it and the one cable has a green/pink connector on the end for the audio and mic) and I'm not sure how I'd run these headphones through something like an amp/DAC given that I'm using a mic as well?

 

Any suggestions product wise would be great. I'm currently using a Xonar DG; plug my Tenores into the front audio port on my computer, headphones/mic into the green and pink on the back.


Edited by Mackem - 6/2/14 at 11:04am
post #2301 of 5962

Im also enjoying them as much as possible. I have only spent 4 days on tenore and the urge to try out the singolos is growing each time i visit this thread. (and also vsd3/s)

 

The wire looks strangely fragile... but so far none have a problem with it then i guess it shouldnt be a major issue. 

post #2302 of 5962

What amazed me are the claims that cymbals doesn't sound right. My impression is that they are so true to life and nice detailed, I can sense different tonalities and they are very crisp that also with my hybrids really sparkle. I don't know why other ppl's sets don't sparkle, mine do but is just sweet, not that fatiguing sibilant sparkle.

post #2303 of 5962
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

Well of my two pairs there is one that is smooth and more likely what most people are hearing here. I'm still running them in and taking note of any possible changes. I don't at all believe in the type of burn-in that may be happening on the Tenore (bass lessening noticeably over time), but I remain open to the possibility.

My other pair is notably less smooth. Not harsh at lower volumes, but I could see someone finding them a bit strident if they listen loudly. "S" and "t" sounds are more emphasized than on my smooth pair, and bass is less present. So I could see someone running up the volume to get the desired bass, and then finding cymbals and such to have to bit excess energy. I do this myself sometimes.

Still burning in and still hoping for some improvements. I'll try to throw in some comparisons with some JH, Hifiman and Noble iems later.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

That's mine.  :o  What is weird is I remember it being smooth when I first got them, too smooth, and what I heard changed to what you are describing.

 

I guess I have a good excuse to return them and get a refund minus the shipping now.  Oh well, it was fund trying these out, although didn't turn out to be what I wanted.  I think I've given these enough chances.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post
 

 

I get that with depth personally. The deeper I insert them the more slightly the bass goes up. The more bass the smoother they sound. I don't know if it's just bass, but they do seem smoother overall. Shallow they might seem more "strident" to some, but I find them accurate at least on my set.

 

Can I ask what recordings you find have emphasized S and T sounds gnarlsagan? And perhaps the volume you are using on the fuze. Maybe we can get a more direct comparison of our two sets by comparing them on the same device at the same volume?

 

To be more clear, I don't find either of my Tenores excessively bright at all when comparing them to other iems in general. The CK10 and DBA-02 are both much brighter imo. But of my Two Tenores, one is a bit more bright than the other, and I don't think it's solely the bass causing it, although it's the main cause.

 

On the Sansa Fuze at about -17 volume (which is what I'd call a high volume setting, one I'd only use in noisy environment like the gym), Neutral Milk Hotel's song Two Headed Boy pt. 1 has more treble emphasis (including "s" and "t" sounds but more noticeable on cymbals) on my brighter pair of Tenores. Because this pair has about 4dB less bass than my "bassy" pair, I tend to increase the volume to get the desired bass response. Of course this also increases the treble response, resulting in an overall brighter sound to my ears than on my "bassy" Tenore. So I could see someone who prefers a warm signature saying "these sound a bit bright". Do they sound bright to me in general at normal volumes? At -25 on the Fuze, no. My brighter Tenore sounds just a tad bass shy with maybe a small 1-2 dB treble peak somewhere around 8k I'm guessing. Treble on the bassy pair is just slightly smoother in general, sounding nearly identical but without that 1-2dB peak. The main difference between the two pairs is definitely bass. I may try to use tones to locate more exact differences in bass and treble shortly. 

 

My bassy pair actually sounds very good. The only problem I have with them is slightly too much mid-bass. I'm 99% sure my first Tenore purchased before these two pairs was very similar to my current bassy pair, but with slightly less mid-bass and perhaps less bass in general. It's just something that didn't bother me on the old pair, but now does, with albums I've listened to hundreds of times. I could be wrong, just sharing what I think to be the most likely scenario here. 

 

Also burning in is ongoing. Perhaps bass will subside? I'll let them play today, putting them at about 10 hours total by the end of the day.

post #2304 of 5962

Sigh. I thought that maybe my pair were going to be all right after the "left driver went to half volume" incident a few days ago (was fine since it came back to life). Another night of burn in last night (not excessively loud or anything), and was listening today, and now the RIGHT driver is at half the volume of the left driver! Wtf. Tested with multiple sources and single ear. I won't be surprised at all if the right driver comes back to life after a rest (like the left driver did), but now I have to seriously consider sending these back for an exchange. :(

post #2305 of 5962
Quote:
Originally Posted by waynes world View Post

Sigh. I thought that maybe my pair were going to be all right after the "left driver went to half volume" incident a few days ago (was fine since it came back to life). Another night of burn in last night (not excessively loud or anything), and was listening today, and now the RIGHT driver is at half the volume of the left driver! Wtf. Tested with multiple sources and single ear. I won't be surprised at all if the right driver comes back to life after a rest (like the left driver did), but now I have to seriously consider sending these back for an exchange. frown.gif

I don't think it's a problem that's going to go away. They're being over pressurized and it's most likely internal to the back vent. Your best bet is an exchange.
post #2306 of 5962
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post

I don't think it's a problem that's going to go away. They're being over pressurized and it's most likely internal to the back vent. Your best bet is an exchange.

 

Thanks. Again, after only 15 minutes of rest, the right driver appears to be back to normal. I can handle it if they occasionally go wonky for short durations as has happened. Getting these shipped back and waiting for another pair is a bit of a hassle, so I'm not 100% sure what I'm going to do yet. 

post #2307 of 5962
Quote:
Originally Posted by avlad View Post
 

What amazed me are the claims that cymbals doesn't sound right. My impression is that they are so true to life and nice detailed, I can sense different tonalities and they are very crisp that also with my hybrids really sparkle. I don't know why other ppl's sets don't sparkle, mine do but is just sweet, not that fatiguing sibilant sparkle.

 

Yeah, my cymbals sound lifelike and natural. The treble on my tenore to me is perfect. It reproduces everything neutrally. If someone is used to the large number of iems with less than perfect treble, the tenores might seems overly smooth and almost "non-specific" in nature. But that's precisely the neutrality at work. No one thing stands out in the response, so it's up to the recording to shine how it has been mixed. I find songs like "sailing" by christopher cross to have incredibly clear and bright as needed treble. While other songs like instrumental piano sounds smooth and clean when recorded with no noise. Very recording dependent.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by waynes world View Post
 

Sigh. I thought that maybe my pair were going to be all right after the "left driver went to half volume" incident a few days ago (was fine since it came back to life). Another night of burn in last night (not excessively loud or anything), and was listening today, and now the RIGHT driver is at half the volume of the left driver! Wtf. Tested with multiple sources and single ear. I won't be surprised at all if the right driver comes back to life after a rest (like the left driver did), but now I have to seriously consider sending these back for an exchange. :(

 

That sucks. Have you checked to make sure nothing got into the little vent hole or the filters?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by waynes world View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post

I don't think it's a problem that's going to go away. They're being over pressurized and it's most likely internal to the back vent. Your best bet is an exchange.

 

Thanks. Again, after only 15 minutes of rest, the right driver appears to be back to normal. I can handle it if they occasionally go wonky for short durations as has happened. Getting these shipped back and waiting for another pair is a bit of a hassle, so I'm not 100% sure what I'm going to do yet. 

 

Is it possible when you insert them the drive flex/suction is causing the variance in volume? What I have to do sometimes to equalize pressure is insert them to the desired depth and either wait a few minutes or sort of shake them all around as much as possible keeping them at the right depth. Not sure if this might place the driver where it should be again or simply equalize pressure? Just something to try. Maybe you can tape the vents and check when it happens. Just temporarily, as this would make both sides completely blocked venting. If it were a vent problem that should make them equally blocked...

post #2308 of 5962
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post
 

To be more clear, I don't find either of my Tenores excessively bright at all when comparing them to other iems in general. The CK10 and DBA-02 are both much brighter imo. But of my Two Tenores, one is a bit more bright than the other, and I don't think it's solely the bass causing it, although it's the main cause.

 

On the Sansa Fuze at about -17 volume (which is what I'd call a high volume setting, one I'd only use in noisy environment like the gym), Neutral Milk Hotel's song Two Headed Boy pt. 1 has more treble emphasis (including "s" and "t" sounds but more noticeable on cymbals) on my brighter pair of Tenores. Because this pair has about 4dB less bass than my "bassy" pair, I tend to increase the volume to get the desired bass response. Of course this also increases the treble response, resulting in an overall brighter sound to my ears than on my "bassy" Tenore. So I could see someone who prefers a warm signature saying "these sound a bit bright". Do they sound bright to me in general at normal volumes? At -25 on the Fuze, no. My brighter Tenore sounds just a tad bass shy with maybe a small 1-2 dB treble peak somewhere around 8k I'm guessing. Treble on the bassy pair is just slightly smoother in general, sounding nearly identical but without that 1-2dB peak. The main difference between the two pairs is definitely bass. I may try to use tones to locate more exact differences in bass and treble shortly. 

 

My bassy pair actually sounds very good. The only problem I have with them is slightly too much mid-bass. I'm 99% sure my first Tenore purchased before these two pairs was very similar to my current bassy pair, but with slightly less mid-bass and perhaps less bass in general. It's just something that didn't bother me on the old pair, but now does, with albums I've listened to hundreds of times. I could be wrong, just sharing what I think to be the most likely scenario here. 

 

Also burning in is ongoing. Perhaps bass will subside? I'll let them play today, putting them at about 10 hours total by the end of the day.

 

Listening to that song on my fuze with the tenores I use -30 to -25 for volume. I can't really get to -17 comfortably, but I can see how it might work in a gym or something due to the environmental masking. :-o But at -25 everything sounds pretty balanced. The recording sort of low-fi sounding (not necessarily a bad thing). But even then, no vocal sounds stand out any more than I would expect for this type of recording. It's sort of a hard recording to compare. :-P It sounds like it was all recorded "hot" and sort of in mono. Maybe one microphone.

 

But to my ears this is what I hear:

 

- The guitar starts out and I hear the overall guitar body as well as the tiny metallic ringing of the strings from the strumming.

- The voice comes in and it is pretty even with the guitar, when he starts yelling the voice is a bit louder overall.

- Through the entire song no one thing stands out as being harsh or anything other than that sort of "mid range" recording quality that comes from using only one mic sometimes.

- If I listen precisely I can hear the ssss and tttt in the vocals, but they aren't volumetrically louder than other things. The vocal is compressed and the consonants are in level with that compressed volume.

- I'm trying to pick out one thing that stands out from the rest, but nothing really strikes me as being "too much of this" or "too much of that". The only parts that take more focus are when the vocals are louder. Sometimes they seem very prominent and almost slightly "honky" in tone.

 

Hopefully this is descriptive enough. :-P The song is nice, but it's sort of a hard one to analyze. Does any of that correspond to how you hear it gnarlsagan?

 

Could we compare "i can't make you love me" by bonnie raitt? I consider it a very good recording, but it is also very good at revealing flaws in an audio system as certain things can sound "strident" as some people describe it if the response isn't very neutral.


Edited by luisdent - 6/2/14 at 1:51pm
post #2309 of 5962
Yeah I chose that Neutral Milk song for a couple reasons. One, I listen to that album like twice a week, and two, there are a lot of compressed recordings out there that people use to judge the sound of an earphone. So I thought I'd use a "real-world" example for comparison, since my original claim was that I could see how someone might find the Tenore bright if they have a pair like mine.

Again though, I don't think SilverEars' pair sounds like my bright pair, since he prefers the CK10, which for me is way too bright. No, I think something is wrong with his Tenore.

"I can't make you love me" sounds pretty great on both my Tenores; fuller on the bassier pair and leaner/slightly brighter on the non-bassy pair.

Her voice sounds on the verge of sibilant a few times, which seems to be inherent in the recording, making it a good test track imo.

I get more mid-bass on my bassy pair, more than the ER4S with red filters for example, with less emphasized mids and smoother treble on the Tenore, with maybe more emphasis around 5-7k.

My non-bassy pair is very similar, but with less mid-bass emphasis and just a little more treble, making for leaner sounding vocals. Compared to the ER4S, the non-bassy Tenore has less mids, but her voice sounds slightly colder and/or distant, but I'm not sure I want to commit 100% to the colder claim. I hypothesize that the lack of a treble dip at 7k on the Tenore is affecting the mids a bit, making the Ety sound a bit drier. Overall, the non-bassy Tenore is still very linear and smooth at normal volumes, but I'll need to do more critical listening to determine exactly where the differences between it and the ER4S lie.
post #2310 of 5962
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

Yeah I chose that Neutral Milk song for a couple reasons. One, I listen to that album like twice a week, and two, there are a lot of compressed recordings out there that people use to judge the sound of an earphone. So I thought I'd use a "real-world" example for comparison, since my original claim was that I could see how someone might find the Tenore bright if they have a pair like mine.

Again though, I don't think SilverEars' pair sounds like my bright pair, since he prefers the CK10, which for me is way too bright. No, I think something is wrong with his Tenore.

"I can't make you love me" sounds pretty great on both my Tenores; fuller on the bassier pair and leaner/slightly brighter on the non-bassy pair.

Her voice sounds on the verge of sibilant a few times, which seems to be inherent in the recording, making it a good test track imo.

I get more mid-bass on my bassy pair, more than the ER4S with red filters for example, with less emphasized mids and smoother treble on the Tenore, with maybe more emphasis around 5-7k.

My non-bassy pair is very similar, but with less mid-bass emphasis and just a little more treble, making for leaner sounding vocals. Compared to the ER4S, the non-bassy Tenore has less mids, but her voice sounds slightly colder and/or distant, but I'm not sure I want to commit 100% to the colder claim. I hypothesize that the lack of a treble dip at 7k on the Tenore is affecting the mids a bit, making the Ety sound a bit drier. Overall, the non-bassy Tenore is still very linear and smooth at normal volumes, but I'll need to do more critical listening to determine exactly where the differences between it and the ER4S lie.

 

That is my consensus as well. No disrespect, but he thinks they lack detail in the treble, but likes the CK10. The CK10 has too much treble in my opinion. So I think the difference is that he prefers more treble, and as you say, that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with his tenore, but that's just his preference. And as the CK10 is not linear in the treble that was why I argued that the tenore is neutral, but he just didn't prefer it. Nothing wrong with a bright earphone, especially if it is a high quality bright earphone and not just a peaky mess like some.

 

Regarding the song, that is exactly why I use it as a test. The vocal is slightly on the verge is sibilant here or there, but I believe the recording engineer chose to leave that in place instead of de-essing the vocal much, because it lends to the more natural and open sound of the whole recording. However, on less than ideal earphones that can come across as being very sibilant, when in fact it's not really that sibilant.

 

My set seems to be unbelievably on target with the er4s with red filters. I just listened to the er4s and swapped to the tenores, and the similarity was so striking I almost didn't realize just how similar they were. My set almost sounds like a red filtered er4s on this song, but with ruler flat bass below 80hz. And maybe ever so slightly less treble in the areas where the er4s was a bit "hot". But so slight it's almost hard to tell. Using eq my tenore appears to have a bout 6db more bass around 50-60hz compared to the er4s. Just a quick test, but somewhere around there.

 

Anyhow, I'm finding the insertion a lot easier now with the tenores. I've been consistently inserting them at an upward angle to fit in the middle of my canal, like i would most other shallow earphones. Then I actually gran the housing and sort of shake it around and push and pull slightly in and out. This seems to make everything equalize for me pretty easily. I know when I have a good fit, because it sits well and blocks the most noise, but I feel no pressure. That's when I get the best possible sound.

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