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Zero Audio - ZH-DX200 Carbo Tenore | ZH-DX210 Carbo Basso (Carbon & Aluminium IEM) thread - Page 149

Poll Results: Which one would you order??

 
  • 73% (274)
    Carbo Tenore
  • 26% (97)
    Carbo Basso
371 Total Votes  
post #2221 of 5960
Quote:
Originally Posted by waynes world View Post

Keep sleeping with them, and they WILL be destroyed at some point (I just accept that - too much abuse - already killed my vsd1le's).

I like the tenores so much though, that I'll always have a pair no matter how long they last.

Btw, mine just changed from reference sounding to bassy sounding... via tip change of course!

Oh my gawd lucident, you love them so much, you sleep with them?  :ph34r: Now, lucident takes break-in further than other by sleeping with them.  One day, they may actually get broken-in.  Anyway, I'm trying to like these.  The stage is larger than my CK-10, but dat treble. Too thick and tinnny now, My V3 and CK-10 has the micro treble for fine details.


Edited by SilverEars - 5/31/14 at 11:19am
post #2222 of 5960
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post

Oh my gawd lucident, you love them so much, you sleep with them?  ph34r.gif  Anyway, I'm trying to like these.  The stage is larger than my CK-10, but dat treble. Too thick and tinnny now, My V3 and CK-10 has the micro treble for fine details.

Happened to me in the past with my MH1. The bass just loses a lot of emphasis and definition goes out the window. Like 10dB drop in bass, fuzzy distorted treble, basically becomes like a telephone. Like suddenly the driver is unable to move correctly. I think it's due to over pressurization. On the MH1, poking a hole to allow more airflow helped but didn't eliminate the problem. It happened after prolonged listening.
post #2223 of 5960
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post


Happened to me in the past with my MH1. The bass just loses a lot of emphasis and definition goes out the window. Like 10dB drop in bass, fuzzy distorted treble, basically becomes like a telephone. Like suddenly the driver is unable to move correctly. I think it's due to over pressurization. On the MH1, poking a hole to allow more airflow helped but didn't eliminate the problem. It happened after prolonged listening.

Mine is not like that.  It sounds bad, but I'm just being pretty anal.  I'm just saying that treble opened up, and now vocals sound more forward.  There is sibilance that wasn't there before, and for some tracks that have cymbal like sound, it's not very controlled. That's what I mean by treble distortion. Tinny treble meaning the treble is forward a bit thick and lacking in the fine treble.  

 

The Tenore has a hole, and guessing that all dynamics with small sized housing have this hole for vent purposes as the housing doesn't provide enough air is my guess.  Anyway, given your statement on the MH1, I see the reason for cheaper pricing on some of these as higher priced ones probably have better lasting quality.  Is MH1 dynamic also?  Dynamic drivers poop out at some points huh?  I don't see that happening with BA.  


Edited by SilverEars - 5/31/14 at 11:52am
post #2224 of 5960

So I ordered 2 pairs from separate Japanese eBay vendors earlier in the week. The first pair arrived today, and initial impressions are quite favourable for such a cheap iem, however I'm pretty sure I have a bad copy as I'm just not hearing what's been raved about elsewhere.

 

Mine are (at the moment, with about 7 hours use) way too bassy and warm to be described as "reference". I still have the pair from "woodlandhills" to arrive, so that may clarify things. I also have some Meelectronics double-flabge tips on the way, so again, that may change things further...

post #2225 of 5960
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post


Happened to me in the past with my MH1. The bass just loses a lot of emphasis and definition goes out the window. Like 10dB drop in bass, fuzzy distorted treble, basically becomes like a telephone. Like suddenly the driver is unable to move correctly. I think it's due to over pressurization. On the MH1, poking a hole to allow more airflow helped but didn't eliminate the problem. It happened after prolonged listening.

I see what you mean.  I guess reason the treble sound forward now could be low-end could have gotten degraded.  reliability really sucks with these.  :( 

 

Note to self:  Just because it's cheap and sounds great, doesn't mean it's long lasting also.  

 

First time running into phones that sound can degrade within a short period of time.


Edited by SilverEars - 5/31/14 at 12:16pm
post #2226 of 5960

Poor quality dynamic drivers do get damaged from time to time but i've owned pairs of good quality phones that lasted me for years without issues. The MH1 also employs a dynamic microdriver. Judging by the descriptions here it's similar to the one used in the Tenores. It might even be the same driver with some tweaking to make it sound different. What's interesting is that the MH1 also had too much variance between batches according to reports here, especially in the bass region. For the record, the 4 pairs i bought sounded exactly the same after burn in (including the close to 9db bass boost) but they all came from the same batch.

 

The reason i am interested in the Tenores is that i liked the smooth sound, relatively good timbre and excellent dynamic range of the MH1's, but the atrocious cable, the excessive bass and the slightly recessed mids where annoying to deal with. I've modded them to a more acceptable level (halving the length of the foam and making a hole to the center of the filters in order to bring the mids and the treble out) but the Tenores seems to have fixed all of those issues while also improving on the sound stage, so it sounds like a no brainer for me. Since i don't use iems at home anymore, i don't see a reason to spend a fortune for a pair that's not intended for critical listening. These should do just fine, especially if i get lucky with my pair's bass.


Edited by SkiesOfAzel - 5/31/14 at 3:59pm
post #2227 of 5960

As i have only 1 pair of tenore i cant really say mine is bassier or not but i liek them :)

 

The only discrepancy i face is that they sound differently from different source. When i play them out of my UD110 with foobar everything sounds more balance but when i play them through my s3 with neutron music player (without crossfeed) the instruments and bass seems to be very upfront/forward. The vocals sounded very distant... I have to enable crossfeed to bring the distance between the vocals and the bass/instruments closer. 

In short im enjoying them more on my desktop with UD110 and not on my s3. 

 

*Im sorry as english is not my native language and i have no idea how to express them in the audiophile lingo

post #2228 of 5960
Quote:
Originally Posted by renishi View Post
 

As i have only 1 pair of tenore i cant really say mine is bassier or not but i liek them :)

 

The only discrepancy i face is that they sound differently from different source. When i play them out of my UD110 with foobar everything sounds more balance but when i play them through my s3 with neutron music player (without crossfeed) the instruments and bass seems to be very upfront/forward. The vocals sounded very distant... I have to enable crossfeed to bring the distance between the vocals and the bass/instruments closer. 

In short im enjoying them more on my desktop with UD110 and not on my s3. 

 

*Im sorry as english is not my native language and i have no idea how to express them in the audiophile lingo

 

The international version of the S3 which you probably have has a wolfson dac which is excellent. It also supports 5 bands eq in h/w, so Samsung might have tweaked it for a more V shaped sound signature which is more consumer friendly than a neutral frequency response. If you have other earphones, try and compare how they perform when used with your pc vs your S3. If the differences are the same (more balanced on your pc, more V shaped on your phone), you could try to fix your phone's fr with an equalizer. If other phones perform similarly between your pc and your phone, the Tenores may need more juice than what your S3 provides to sound good.


Edited by SkiesOfAzel - 5/31/14 at 2:54pm
post #2229 of 5960
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiesOfAzel View Post
 

Poor quality dynamic drivers do get damaged from time to time but i've owned pairs of good quality phones that lasted me for years without issues. The MH1 also employs a dynamic microdriver. Judging by the descriptions here it's similar to the one used in the Tenores. It might even be the same driver with some tweaking to sound different. What's interesting is that the MH1 also had too much variance between batches according to reports here, especially in the bass region. For the record, the 4 pairs i bought sounded exactly the same after burn in (including the close to 9db bass boost) but they all came from the same batch.

 

The reason i am interested in the Tenores is that i liked the smooth sound relatively good timbre and excellent dynamic range of the MH1's, but the atrocious cable, the excessive bass and the slightly recessed mids where annoying to deal with. I've modded them to a more acceptable level (halving the length of the foam and making a hole to the center of the filters in order to bring the mids and the treble out) but the Tenores seems to have fixed all of those issues while also improving on the sound stage, so it sounds like a no brainer for me. Since i don't use iems at home anymore, i don't see a reason to spend a fortune for a pair that's not intended for critical listening. These should do just fine, especially if i get lucky with my pair's bass.

 

I find that odd. I recable mh1's and I've had the opportunity to test at least 10 of them so far. They all sounded identical to me. Bass level, treble, everything. Stock, they were identical. Rin also measured the mh1 and found every pair extremely similar with almost no variation. The mh1c is another story. That is not the same quality control, and he even measured differences in bass with the C version. I also never had any channel imbalance or other issues at all. So I've had 100% success with 10 mh1s. I think that's pretty good. All different sources, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 
Mine is not like that.  It sounds bad, but I'm just being pretty anal.  I'm just saying that treble opened up, and now vocals sound more forward.  There is sibilance that wasn't there before, and for some tracks that have cymbal like sound, it's not very controlled. That's what I mean by treble distortion. Tinny treble meaning the treble is forward a bit thick and lacking in the fine treble.  

 

The Tenore has a hole, and guessing that all dynamics with small sized housing have this hole for vent purposes as the housing doesn't provide enough air is my guess.  Anyway, given your statement on the MH1, I see the reason for cheaper pricing on some of these as higher priced ones probably have better lasting quality.  Is MH1 dynamic also?  Dynamic drivers poop out at some points huh?  I don't see that happening with BA.  

 

I have no sibilance ever, unless a track has it in the recording. But I either have more break in, or just a better pair. I have absolutely none of what you describe. Unless you find the same thing to be true with the er4s. :-P Can you compare your set to the er4s?

post #2230 of 5960
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post
 

 

I find that odd. I recable mh1's and I've had the opportunity to test at least 10 of them so far. They all sounded identical to me. Bass level, treble, everything. Stock, they were identical. Rin also measured the mh1 and found every pair extremely similar with almost no variation. The mh1c is another story. That is not the same quality control, and he even measured differences in bass with the C version. I also never had any channel imbalance or other issues at all. So I've had 100% success with 10 mh1s. I think that's pretty good. All different sources, etc.

 

Yes, you are right, i was talking about the C version. Mine were similar to the ones reviewed by ClieOS, but there where many reports of variances including the one from Rin which was backed up by data. I also had a regular MH1 which sounded like an MH1C with 3-4 db less bass. It was closer to my sonic preference but i couldn't be bothered to buy and carry a CTIA converter so i gave it to my sister that had a SE phone at the time :P.

 

[EDIT]

As for the Tenore treble, it's probably a combination of tips/insertion and sonic preference. Some people just prefer BAs to dynamic drivers and SilverEars seems like one of them. Dynamic drivers can rarely reach the level of apparent micro detail a good BA can output at those sizes and it would also defeat their purpose which is a more natural reverb and decay.


Edited by SkiesOfAzel - 5/31/14 at 3:05pm
post #2231 of 5960

Wow. I'm doing an a/b comparison of the hd580 with the tenores. The tenore is a clear winner. The hd580 sounds congested and "honky" in comparison. Overall, they actually both have a very similar frequency flatness, but the tenores I have sound smoother, more open and more micro detailed. The hd580 sound a bit thicker in a way, but not really in a better way. I'd almost say it was distortion levels are high, but I have no idea what the 580 distortion levels are. It just sounds like the sound is less pure in some way, even though they both sound extremely flat in response. I'm shocked though.

 

I was expecting a difference, but not the tenores being noticeably better. I've compared jazz and rock so far and both are obvious. And for anyone curious, I'm using my lossless collection, via my apogee interface and my custom passive a/b switch I made to expedite switching phones. I'd say there a 4-5 second delay between the 580 and the tenore and a 2-3 second delay between the tenore and the 580.

 

Just quickly using the GE graph to flatten the hd580 even more, it starts to sound more like my tenores. I think my tenores are almost a perfect line on the GE graphs.

 

 

 

Nothing too specific, but flattening out the slight treble bumps and whatnot based on the GE graph makes the 580 sound a lot closer to my tenores. They're not identical still, but frequency-wise, extremely similar. Enough that I'd say the tenore is a nice in-ear for someone coming from the sennheiser HD series. I think the 3khz area is what I associate with "honky" sound. I seem to be very sensitive to this area as well, as I eq it down on almost everything i use. I find the tenore even has a bump there like the er4s, but it sounds less boosted to me, so I don't use eq. Maybe 1-1.5db opposed to the er4s 3db or so.

 

Anyway, very cool. :-)


Edited by luisdent - 5/31/14 at 3:21pm
post #2232 of 5960

I really like the Senn HD signature. My HD600 broke so i decided to try the fa-003 which is reported to have a similar sound with the added benefit of being closed. If the Tenores are also sonicaly similar i will be a very happy camper. Both should be in my hands come next week.

 

I used to be very sensitive to the 3khz area, phones that had a boost there made my ears bleed, but it has gotten less of an issue with age, which probably means i will end up deaf in a few years :P. 

post #2233 of 5960

Tenore is not neutral, like I said, look at the scale in that graph, and the low end.  My impressions reflect the graph, Tenore is warm and since it's warm, it creates a more noticible sound stage than my CK-10 which has more details and brighter, but more neutral with less warmth.

 

Sorry guys, I don't have the ER4 to do comparison.  I will be getting number of DAPs for comparison to hear which I like best.  


Edited by SilverEars - 5/31/14 at 4:03pm
post #2234 of 5960
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiesOfAzel View Post
 

I really like the Senn HD signature. My HD600 broke so i decided to try the fa-003 which is reported to have a similar sound with the added benefit of being closed. If the Tenores are also sonicaly similar i will be a very happy camper. Both should be in my hands come next week.

 

I used to be very sensitive to the 3khz area, phones that had a boost there made my ears bleed, but it has gotten less of an issue with age, which probably means i will end up deaf in a few years :P. 

 

Assuming you don't get a "bassy" pair as some have seemed to get (not sure how likely this is), they are extremely similar to the HD series but more open sounding. The sub buss is also much better. Same overall frequency response, but the lowest sub bass around say 20-50hz is more flat and can punch better when needed. The treble is more lienear in the upper area than the hd580. I eq'd it down based on the GE graphs, and hte 580 sound more like the tenore, but not identical due to the open design and whatnot and I really think it has more harmonic distortion which I think im becoming extremely sensitive to. I can't believe i never heard it when i first got the pfe, but I don't think i knew what I was listening for. Now I hear the differences in most earphones I try with anywhere 0.5 to 1.0% or greater.

 

Anyway, I don't have mh HD600 anymore, but I remember them sounding extremely similar to these 580 I have now. Except the treble was maybe a touch more flat on the 600. Anyway, if you get a good set of tenores that are at a minimum in the same overall sound signature and they are much closer to being part of the hd series than any other earphone I've tried, especially, ironically, sennheiser's...

post #2235 of 5960
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

Tenore is not neutral, like I said, look at the scale in that graph, and the low end.  My impressions reflect the graph, Tenore is warm and since it's warm, it creates a more noticible sound stage than my CK-10 which has more details and brighter, but more neutral with less warmth.

 

Sorry guys, I don't have the ER4 to do comparison.  I will be getting number of DAPs for comparison to hear which I like best.  

 

I haven't had the luck to listen to the CK-10s but if they are anything like the dba-002 they aren't neutral either. The bass rolls off too early and there are spikes in the treble area. Anything that doesn't actually roll off in the lower region will sound warmer than the CK-10 even if it's flatter than it.

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