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Zero Audio - ZH-DX200 Carbo Tenore | ZH-DX210 Carbo Basso (Carbon & Aluminium IEM) thread - Page 137

Poll Results: Which one would you order??

 
  • 73% (274)
    Carbo Tenore
  • 26% (97)
    Carbo Basso
371 Total Votes  
post #2041 of 5958
Man it'd be great if Rin would measure like 5 pairs of these. We need to find out more about them!
post #2042 of 5958

Anyone know how these would compare to the ckm-500s? I see that Grayson stacks them above the gr07s and many others have lauded these as one of the best they've heard.

post #2043 of 5958
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

Man it'd be great if Rin would measure like 5 pairs of these. We need to find out more about them!

 

Seriously. Where is this guy?

post #2044 of 5958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayson73 View Post

 

I only like M200 for when I'm in a basshead mood.  The bass overpowers the rest of the spectrum so the vocals sound a bit recessed and are not airy.  What tips are you using with them?

 

Wuss! ;)

 

Seriously though, I don't find the bass to be overpowering at all (with the vmoda tips). Maybe I'm not getting the seal that you're getting though.

 

Other tips that work well with the M200's are the UE900 tips (less bass, opens them up a bit). And the comply tsx500's sound really great with the M200's if you don't mind them.


Edited by waynes world - 5/28/14 at 1:27pm
post #2045 of 5958

I'll be doing a little comparison of these two later today, or tomorrow.

 

post #2046 of 5958
Quote:
Originally Posted by roy_jones View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post


From experience I've known him to use logic and not be subject to exactly that "gold plated cryo" mentality. Therefore, from experience his opinion (to me) was more valid than one from that exact type of person you mentioned. I'm simply basing my opinion on the logical conclusions I made. I would say the same thing of you, if you explained the way you tested things and those methods ended up being the same objective way that gnarlsagan tests things from my experience.

I personally have no ego build-up-desire with this forum. I can't stand that sort of thing. That's exactly what I believe stems from the placebo based, price based, cryo cable nonsense that happens all too often. Not that there's anything wrong with buying whatever cable whacks your whammy, but to go on and tout its sonic benefits when there are none makes me sick. "this amp sounds better than that amp because it costs more", even though they measure identically. I call that nonsense unless a solid explanation of the differences can be verified to be true, which is almost never the case.
I was strictly speaking statistically. The number of people that have heard and described a similar sound is reasonable and the number of issues is pretty low currently and no disrespect intended, but mostly isolated to gnarlsagan. :-P It's also hard to say how much variance is considered acceptable and what each user considers "noticeable". So again, logically based on that data, there is no way anyone can clearly say there are problems with the tenore. Can a pool of 10-20 people even be used as an accurate statistic? I say not really. I've had worse statistic variance/results purchasing things from different stores. Does that mean I can say anything statistically about them? Not really. Especially since here, most people are more critical about their gear, whether hearing a change or not, and more likely to comment about it.

Therefore, I don't believe any solid conclusion can be made so far, so why should I stop recommending them? :-P I think the general sound, whether bassier or not, is described fairly consistently as being true to the tenore "tone", which in my opinion is better than every other iem I've heard. Therefore why wouldn't i recommend it? :-o The mh1 has nothing but "channel imbalance" issues plastered over the mh1 thread. I've ordered about 10 pairs now, most from different sources and never had even a single variance in the sound or imbalance. But again, statistically what is 10 people complaining about imbalance in a pool of thousands of users that we don't have data from? :-o

I'm not discounting the claims of variance at all. It may not seem like it, but I'm not trying to say you should ignore those claims. I'm just saying you need to look at everything all together in context, as a whole. Statistically, we have very little data. My very limited experience has only been positive. Gnarlsagan's experience has been at least somewhat negative. Therefore, I'm not going to jump to any statistical conclusions, but I will take everything he says seriously and just be aware that there might be an issue. I wouldn't dismiss that or any return issues when factoring in any purchase. I usually tell people more details than they even want to know. Ha. I even told one user who asked about the ebay seller I use, that he handles warranty claims for you, but you pay for shipping because the warranty isn't valid in the US, etc. etc. We live in a "buyer beware" society, which I think is sad. I prefer a full disclosure attitude personally.

O.k. o.k., I know this is getting long. End.

 

 

I admit I used your other post to get on my soap box about problems that I don't necessarily think you're guilty of.  I'm glad you went on to dismiss your own initial attempt to suggest there was meaning in the statistical argument you presented.  I'd be curious to know what would qualify as a deal-breaker to stop you from recommending the tenore. 

 

Just for the sake of argument, if Rin were to test it and it showed to have a massive suckout in the audible spectrum, would you revise your opinion then?  Because it seems that you're using your enjoyment of the IEM as the basis for your recommendation.  The respected posters who continued to recommend seriously flawed IEMs used the exact same rationale. The fact they discovered the IEM had a suckout didn't alter their enjoyment.  

 

I disagree on the issue of ego and the social effect of posting on head-fi.  None of us are immune to it.  Certainly none of us who post video review recommendations.  Fact is, you're putting yourself out there when you do that and there's an automatic ego component.  Not because you're a narcissist, but because you're human.  You most certainly underestimate the social effect posting on head-fi has on your motivations, IMHO.  Very hard to explain the behavior of ourselves as consumers here without acknowledging that component.   

 

Well, first my enjoyment is directly tied to the measured performance and accuracy thereof. I've found this direct link in every iem i've ever tried that is closer to a flat graphed response with lower distortion, etc. etc. I don't want to get into that though, people get way to argumentative over what is flat. I'll just say no noticeable dips or peaks is flat enough for this reasoning. There is no suckout or any other flaw with my pair of tenores. In fact they're so flat I'm still in disbelief every time I hear them.

 

As for ego, sure, as human beings go we all enjoy social conversation, making each other or ourselves feel good, etc. But I in no way post things here solely to boost my ego in the commonly understood meaning of that phrase. And my videos? Plain and simple, they are to help others find earphones they will like and to make me money (which doesn't happen much yet). That's it. If I didn't make money at all I don't know if i'd make them. That's just honesty. If I felt they were extremely helpful and millions of people liked them, perhaps, but for it's a matter of time. I don't have all the time in the world, so I'd like to hopefully expand my videos, help people and make some profit off of them. Then I'm making at least some money with something I enjoy doing and am passionate about.

 

Lastly, if rin showed a large number of tenores measured with great variances, depending on the variances I would base my overall decision. In other words, if the only varian was a 6db change in bass from 0-100hz on each pair I would still recommend them with the note that people should be aware the bass fluctuates between pairs and they may have to go through a few to get the proper bass signature they prefer. If the overall spectrum fluctuates more widely, with treble dips or mid boosts or whatever, making them essentially unpredictable, then I would say that I got an excellent pair, but I was just lucky, and the measurements would indicate that you will not know what to expect. Therefore someone would be cautioned to buy them expecting any specific sound, which makes them pretty useless. I highly doubt this is the case though. I've never seen any earphone with that bad quality control. Usually the differences are much smaller than people think and even then, isolated to one small part of the sound. But who knows. Can anyone here get rin involved in a measuring test? I'll gladly offer my sets for science! :-P

post #2047 of 5958
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post
 

I'll be doing a little comparison of these two later today, or tomorrow.

 

 

Nice. I've been wondering how those fare.

post #2048 of 5958

I'm forcing myself to listen to my tenores now, although I have my V3 for higher precision of details.  I'm hoping it will get better magically.  :frown:  Not that it's crap phones, it beats everything in it's price range and a bit higher I think.  It is clean sounding, and it does output most of the frequencies, doesn't sound it's dipping any part of of it, except the micro details.  I need the micro details dammit!  Give it to me, give it to me now!  And some nano-details while it's at it.  

 

I pray to the subjective gods of audiophiles to bring thy burn-in affect strongly to my Tenores so I can hear like a dog.  

 

For all yall have too much bass.  Stop complain like a baby and just use stock tips so it has less seal and tapers the bass.


Edited by SilverEars - 5/28/14 at 5:01pm
post #2049 of 5958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayson73 View Post
 

Agree.  I don't even use the ear guides; I put them straight up and away.

 

I only like M200 for when I'm in a basshead mood.  The bass overpowers the rest of the spectrum so the vocals sound a bit recessed and are not airy.  What tips are you using with them?

TF10 tips

post #2050 of 5958

Tenore:

initial burning in impressions...less than 5hours...the bass is stretching out from its muddiness..

classical music is less than stellar, vocals are fine...ANdrea Borcell sounds good. Promising!

like Silverears, i am praying that the microdetails will come thru too.

post #2051 of 5958
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

I'm forcing myself to listen to my tenores now, although I have my V3 for higher precision of details.  I'm hoping it will get better magically.  :frown:  Not that it's crap phones, it beats everything in it's price range and a bit higher I think.  It is clean sounding, and it does output most of the frequencies, doesn't sound it's dipping any part of of it, except the micro details.  I need the micro details dammit!  Give it to me, give it to me now!  And some nano-details while it's at it.  

 

I pray to the subjective gods of audiophiles to bring thy burn-in affect strongly to my Tenores so I can hear like a dog.  

 

For all yall have too much bass.  Stop complain like a baby and just use stock tips so it has less seal and tapers the bass.

 

Stick with it. See if it makes a difference. Maybe even leave them playing when you're not listening for a day or two? I've probably put 40+ hours on mine and I'd guess they were what I consider "finished" breaking in, if there was any, around 20-30 hours maybe. It's hard to tell.

 

I get very very fine details on mine. Better than the er4s. The er4s is smoothed out in comparison (not in a good way, primarily due to the 3khz or so bump and the lacking treble extension in comparison). My pair renders instruments insanely realistically. Every nuance is there, but they still remain very smooth and silky. Mmmmm. I'm praying my next three sets sound the same.!!!!!

post #2052 of 5958
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post

I'm forcing myself to listen to my tenores now, although I have my V3 for higher precision of details.  I'm hoping it will get better magically.  frown.gif   Not that it's crap phones, it beats everything in it's price range and a bit higher I think.  It is clean sounding, and it does output most of the frequencies, doesn't sound it's dipping any part of of it, except the micro details.  I need the micro details dammit!  Give it to me, give it to me now!  And some nano-details while it's at it.  

I pray to the subjective gods of audiophiles to bring thy burn-in affect strongly to my Tenores so I can hear like a dog.  

For all yall have too much bass.  Stop complain like a baby and just use stock tips so it has less seal and tapers the bass.

I posted this last page but try to get some long wide bore tips like the mod here to get more treble emphasis and perhaps easier to perceive detail. Meelec biflanges and UE900 tips have been reported to work for this.
post #2053 of 5958

Thanks to this thread, just join the crowd with the awesome Tenore! :regular_smile :

This little IEM is simply amazing... giant killer :ksc75smile:

post #2054 of 5958

Besides the normal tip rolling, I would also play around with insertion angles. Unfortunately for my ears, the best sound quality comes out when the earphones are placed at a relatively uncomfortable angle (not unbearable, but still not as comfortable as they can be). I'm thinking that this magic angle for me is where the bore is least obstructed by my inner ear canal.

post #2055 of 5958
its not killing one iem for sure and I'm not selling those😉
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