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Zero Audio - ZH-DX200 Carbo Tenore | ZH-DX210 Carbo Basso (Carbon & Aluminium IEM) - Information,... - Page 251

Poll Results: Which one would you order??

 
  • 69% (125)
    Carbo Tenore
  • 30% (55)
    Carbo Basso
180 Total Votes  
post #3751 of 4258
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post

maybe I was combining things I'd read, but I know I read somewhere that speaker manufacturers use specific dampening materials specifically made for audio applications. Unless they wanna try something crazy lol, which is also awesome.

 

Speaker manufacturers put foamy material behind the driver to reduce acoustic reflection which can cause resonance. That's what i initially though when i saw the foam but James' update about the back vent changed my mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

So just to summarize: if I open my bass-light pair there should be more foam than on James' pair. I'd like to have a solid hypothesis before I go for it. Anyone care to add anything?

 

No, the quantity isn't the only thing that matters. The foam used in your pair might be denser, or better glued to the back vent. I know the temptation is strong, but i'd wait for James' updates before doing anything i might regret latter ;).


Edited by SkiesOfAzel - 7/20/14 at 12:11pm
post #3752 of 4258
Quote:
Originally Posted by zest View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post
 

 

There must be a proportional relativity to the size of the chamber (amount of air), the venting (amount of air allowed to easily exit) and damping material (also controlling airflow).

 

I would guess that a fully sealed chamber would equal the lowest amount of bass, if it is at a size where air can't easily move. In other words, even a fully sealed chamber would allow all the bass response possible if the chamber were the size of a water bottle or something, because the air would be able to leave the driver easily. But as it decreases in size it must reach a point where it prevents adequate airflow, almost creating a vacuum when the driver attempts to move away from the chamber. Thus the vent allows some airflow to allow the driver to move away from the chamber but requiring more pull from the driver resulting in low bass. With a bigger vent the drive can more easily pull away and push into the chamber allowing more bass response. The foam would be like a mini airflow control that isn't at drastic as a vent perhaps?

 

These are just theories, but it makes sense that it comes down to the driver being able to push air enough to generate bass.


When you look at the chart of the MH1 mod, no rear volume means a cut-off frequency around 1.5 KHz, -2 dB at 500 Hz and -4 dB at around 300 Hz. When the chamber is totally open, bass is close to 0 dB, and sub-bass increase above 0 dB at 40 Hz.

 

 

Correct, which goes along with what I was saying... As the air flow is allowed to pass more easily the bass increases.

post #3753 of 4258
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiesOfAzel View Post

Speaker manufacturers put foamy material behind the driver to reduce acoustic reflection which can cause resonance. That's what i initially though when i saw the foam but James' update about the back vent changed my mind.

No, the quantity isn't the only thing that matters. The foam used in your pair might be denser, or better glued to the back vent. I know the temptation is strong, but i'd wait for James' updates before doing anything i might regret latter wink.gif .

Mmmm that may have been what I'd read about speakers. I'm too lazy to try to look up where I'd read about different foams, mainly because I don't have a good lead from memory.
post #3754 of 4258
Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post

How did you open these? Are they permanantely damaged or can you put them back together?

 

Click here and here. They're still ok.

 

I don't see where that says how to open them? I know they have glue, but what was done to them? Pliers? Heat gun?

 

Am I missing something?

post #3755 of 4258
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post
 

 

I don't see where that says how to open them? I know they have glue, but what was done to them? Pliers? Heat gun?

 

Am I missing something?

 

He stuck a screw in the front metal plate and then used it to pull the driver part out of the shell. You can see the screw in the picture. 


Edited by SkiesOfAzel - 7/20/14 at 12:31pm
post #3756 of 4258
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post
 

 

I don't see where that says how to open them? I know they have glue, but what was done to them? Pliers? Heat gun?

 

Am I missing something?

Actually, heat gun make sense to loosen the glue although he did say he used the screw with two pliers.  I'm guessing the screw for leverage and hold one side.

 

This is exciting.  :D  :popcorn:


Edited by SilverEars - 7/20/14 at 12:23pm
post #3757 of 4258
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiesOfAzel View Post
 

Don't keep us in suspense, just put another material there and report the results. I am searching for different foam types as we speak :D.

 

The problem being that these things are damn tiny and I have no equipment whatsoever to do it properly. I'll see if I can get a magnifier lamp or something like that tomorrow.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuZo2 View Post
 

If bass can be fixed, more scary part is TTS. I guess thats not from cables but driver itself.

 

Ever since I removed the mesh and saw there are no filters, I've been suspecting that moisture condensation may be the cause for TTS. That mesh is probably not very effective as a moisture barrier.

 

Someone with a TTS prone pair of Tenores ought to put a small piece of cotton wool behind the mesh and see whether it has an influence on TTS.

post #3758 of 4258
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post


Mmmm that may have been what I'd read about speakers. I'm too lazy to try to look up where I'd read about different foams, mainly because I don't have a good lead from memory.

 

Now that i think about it, there was a lot of resonance with this pair, especially with the right driver, which makes sense since the vent there would make acoustic reflection easier to spread if not blocked properly.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post
 

 

The problem being that these things are damn tiny and I have no equipment whatsoever to do it properly. I'll see if I can get a magnifier lamp or something like that tomorrow.

 

Yeah, the working space seems tight to say the least. Initially i'd just try to seal the vent with tape to confirm its effect on bass response.


Edited by SkiesOfAzel - 7/20/14 at 12:30pm
post #3759 of 4258
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post

 

I don't see where that says how to open them? I know they have glue, but what was done to them? Pliers? Heat gun?

 

Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

Actually, heat gun make sense to loosen the glue although he did say he used the screw with two pliers.  I'm guessing the screw for leverage and hold one side.

 

This is exciting.  :D  :popcorn:

 

Agreed, a heat gun will probably make it even easier, but I don't own one.

 

1. Remove the mesh.

2. Drive a screw into the metal plate opening shown in this post.

3. Use one pair of pliers to grab the housing and the other one to grab the screw. Pull carefully apart.

 

Edit: Illustration for step 3:

 

Grab the housing with a pair of pliers (red arrow on the left). Grab the screw with a second pair of pliers (red arrow on the right).

Stick a small block (green) between the pliers for leverage (anything hard enough to withstand a bit of pressure. I used a terminal block I had at hand).

Holding the pliers at the end of their handles, press slowly and carefully together (yellow arrows). Front and back parts of the housing will slide apart.

 

 

Should be really easy, if you follow the instructions. I opened up the second earpiece of my bassy Tenores in less than 5 minutes this morning.


Edited by james444 - 7/20/14 at 8:51pm
post #3760 of 4258
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post

I don't see where that says how to open them? I know they have glue, but what was done to them? Pliers? Heat gun?

Am I missing something?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post

 
Actually, heat gun make sense to loosen the glue although he did say he used the screw with two pliers.  I'm guessing the screw for leverage and hold one side.

This is exciting.  biggrin.gif   popcorn.gif

Agreed, a heat gun will probably make it even easier, but I don't own one.

1. Remove the mesh.
2. Drive a screw into the metal plate opening shown in this post.
3. Use one pair of pliers to grab the housing and the other one to grab the screw. Pull carefully apart.

Edit: Illustration for step 3:

Grab the housing with a pair of pliers (red arrow on the left). Grab the screw with a second pair of pliers (red arrow on the right).
Stick a small block (green) between the pliers for leverage (anything hard enough to withstand a bit of pressure. I used a terminal block I had at hand).
Holding the pliers at the end of their handles, press slowly and carefully together (yellow arrows). Front and back parts of the housing will slide apart.




Should be really easy, if you follow the instructions. I opened up the second earpiece of my bassy Tenores in less than 5 minutes this morning.
Imust have missed these posts. I was on vacation this week, and didn't see them scanning through to catch up...

Did you scratch the housing?

How do you drive a screw in? Get just the right diameter that fits perfectly? Do you know what screw size this is?

How do you reapply the mesh/filter/damper cloth?
Edited by luisdent - 7/20/14 at 10:51pm
post #3761 of 4258
Quote:
Originally Posted by luisdent View Post


Imust have missed these posts. I was on vacation this week, and didn't see them scanning through to catch up...

Did you scratch the housing?

How do you drive a screw in? Get just the right diameter that fits perfectly? Do you know what screw size this is?

How do you reapply the mesh/filter/damper cloth?

 

"Did you scratch the housing?" - No, I wrapped it into a small piece of rubber sheet to avoid that.

 

"Get just the right diameter that fits perfectly?" - Yup, simply searched through my inventory until I found one that fit. (Don't know its exact size, sorry)

 

"How do you reapply the mesh?" - The edge is sticky. Poke a fine needle through the mesh to take it off. Just press it back into position when you're done.

 

Hope this helps...

post #3762 of 4258
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post
 

Since I have all my Tenores back now, I decided to resume the exploration of my worst (bassy) pair. Removed the grills once more, to take a deeper look inside this time:

 

 

Interestingly, the diaphragm is placed behind a metal plate, that may be part of the housing or part of the driver... I can't tell for sure. But it's definitely solid metal, and there's only an about 1mm wide opening between the front part of the housing and the driver cavity.

 

YMMV, but considering there's a 6mm driver working behind an opening of only 1mm, I'd say no wonder these sound a bit congested / brickwalled with dynamic music.

 

Interesting. When I did experiment on DUNU DN-1000 to find the best eartips for it, I found the JVC eartips from my JVC FXD80 sounds best for DN-1000. And look at the picture below, it also has small bore / opening. So the DN-1000 nozzle is behind the JVC eartips small opening. Seems similar techniques with the internal design of the Tenore, to create a kind of acoustic damping with the small opening. They sound great, no congestion at all.

 

post #3763 of 4258

The difference is that the air has a lot less kinetic energy when attempting to pass through the bore of the tip than it does when it passes through the damping plate in the Tenore. I am certainly not an expert but i think there are bound to be more sound wave reflections with the Tenore.  


Edited by SkiesOfAzel - 7/21/14 at 3:38am
post #3764 of 4258
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiesOfAzel View Post
 

I am certainly not an expert but i think there are bound to be more sound wave reflections with the Tenore.  

 

X2 on not being an expert... and X2 on the sound reflections. At least unless there's some kind of tapering behind the plate, which I doubt. So, the 6mm driver is likely facing a flat surface with only about 1mm wide opening, meaning that >95% of emitted sound waves will be reflected back from the plate.

 

Still, just a guess and I could be wrong. But the main difference to earfonia is that I'm hearing the congestion and speculating on its cause.


Edited by james444 - 7/21/14 at 4:43am
post #3765 of 4258

There is plate in front of driver? or its part of the driver?

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