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Zero Audio - ZH-DX200 Carbo Tenore | ZH-DX210 Carbo Basso (Carbon & Aluminium IEM) - Information,... - Page 222

Poll Results: Which one would you order??

 
  • 70% (144)
    Carbo Tenore
  • 29% (61)
    Carbo Basso
205 Total Votes  
post #3316 of 4458
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnityIsPower View Post


What you think about the GR07 series?

 

I consider it a very good product. I sold mine because i am very sensitive to treble spikes, especially around the 7k mark, but as far as tuning goes it did everything else right imo. It was easy to fit and carry and it was reasonably priced despite the fact they had to license the bio cellulose technology from Sony. In fact i've been considering getting another one, but i will probably wait for the rest of the vsd series to come out before deciding what to get. They may offer something similar to the GR07 but with a flatter treble. 


Edited by SkiesOfAzel - 7/4/14 at 11:55am
post #3317 of 4458
Treble.... I hope I don't have hearing loss frown.gif I'm too young an beautiful.

That aside, I consider it a great value after trying out so much gear. Both these lower priced wonders(KC06/Tenore) are sweet but it's starting to look like the Tenores are out for now and the KC06 still needs some touches(y-split*cough). Great work BTW! and James is such a stud muffin for the loan 😍.
post #3318 of 4458
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnityIsPower View Post

Treble.... I hope I don't have hearing loss frown.gif I'm too young an beautiful.

That aside, I consider it a great value after trying out so much gear. Both these lower priced wonders(KC06/Tenore) are sweet but it's starting to look like the Tenores are out for now and the KC06 still needs some touches(y-split*cough). Great work BTW! and James is such a stud muffin for the loan 😍.

 

Thanks should go to James exclusively, he is this forum's superhero for sure :regular_smile : . Although all pairs sound a little different, his boosted pair was what really bothered me, the delta was just too noticeable. 

 

[EDIT]

I will update my impressions as i listen to more tracks, and i intend to retest with tones with l/r reversed just to be sure. You should also wait for James's impressions as i intend to ship to him my pairs along with his during the next week.


Edited by SkiesOfAzel - 7/4/14 at 12:45pm
post #3319 of 4458
I will leave bean counting to the experts whilst I let my ears decide what they hear... And it is real good.
I have no idea what type of Tenore I have ended up with but it sounds very pleasing to me

I just went around friends house to do a-b against EX1000. The Sony left me with an earache after an hours Trance session and the Tenore left me with a bigger grin than I when walked in. He let me keep a pair of his Sony hybrid isolation tips. These have taken the Tenore a notch up by increasing & tightening the sub bass. It's a shame the build of these things is so weak but they are what they are at there price point. Right now I have no regrets of not owning EX1000 or ASG2. At $50 I recommend them even if there is a chance they are imperfect. Worth the lucky dip IMO.

I joined these forum 3 years back looking for advice on a suitable IEM. An IEM that was close to the sound signature of my K240 Monitors (600ohm). I ended up buying 5 more iem's than I had planned to. None of which really met my original needs. I guess quite a few people have done that on these forums. I'm glad to say the Tenore I have ended up with is possibly the closest to the sound signature I was after all along. For once I can have my Eq off & no extra bass added (Sony clear bass etc). My biggest wish is they were built more robust to last. Good thing I bought 2 wink_face.gif


If beauty is in the eye if the beholder than sonic nirvana is in the ears of the listener
post #3320 of 4458
Quote:
Originally Posted by archy121 View Post

I will leave bean counting to the experts whilst I let my ears decide what they hear... And it is real good.
I have no idea what type of Tenore I have ended up with but it sounds very pleasing to me

I just went around friends house to do a-b against EX1000. The Sony left me with an earache after an hours Trance session and the Tenore left me with a bigger grin than I when walked in. He let me keep a pair of his Sony hybrid isolation tips. These have taken the Tenore a notch up by increasing & tightening the sub bass. It's a shame the build of these things is so weak but they are what they are at there price point. Right now I have no regrets of not owning EX1000 or ASG2. At $50 I recommend them even if there is a chance they are imperfect. Worth the lucky dip IMO.

I joined these forum 3 years back looking for advice on a suitable IEM. An IEM that was close to the sound signature of my K240 Monitors (600ohm). I ended up buying 5 more iem's than I had planned to. None of which really met my original needs. I guess quite a few people have done that on these forums. I'm glad to say the Tenore I have ended up with is possibly the closest to the sound signature I was after all along. For once I can have my Eq off & no extra bass added (Sony clear bass etc). My biggest wish is they were built more robust to last. Good thing I bought 2 wink_face.gif


If beauty is in the eye if the beholder than sonic nirvana is in the ears of the listener

 

 

Don't get me wrong, i also love how they sound, they are my favorite iem at the moment. Maybe an effort to be objective swayed my posts too much in the other direction. If i had to express an opinion based on sound alone i would say that they are a good buy even considering the variations. But there are too many reports of channel imbalance, driver failures and other issues related to build quality in this thread. Replacing them under warranty is also not a trivial task.

 

I am sure there are many members that don't mind since they can easily afford a replacement or two (or four :p). But there are also people that don't have a lot of money to spare on audio equipment and those people should be warned.

post #3321 of 4458
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiesOfAzel View Post


Don't get me wrong, i also love how they sound, they are my favorite iem at the moment. Maybe an effort to be objective swayed my posts too much in the other direction. If i had to express an opinion based on sound alone i would say that they are a good buy even considering the variations. But there are too many reports of channel imbalance, driver failures and other issues related to build quality in this thread. Replacing them under warranty is also not a trivial task.

I am sure there are many members that don't mind since they can easily afford a replacement or two (or four tongue.gif ). But there are also people that don't have a lot of money to spare on audio equipment and those people should be warned.

That puts things in better perspective.


I still got my second pair to crack open yet tongue.gif

Got my phones from ebay user EINA-JAPAN. Did a great job with comms & packing.

Highly recommend people try them with Sony hybrid isolation tips - ones with foam around inner tube.
Edited by archy121 - 7/4/14 at 3:54pm
post #3322 of 4458

I did talk talk to zero audio and they have been communicating with me back and forth, but they asked me not to share our conversation. I'm going to summarize the points though. I think it's unreasonable of them to expect me to not share the main points we discussed. Not that it is much help. Here we go:

 

- They can't really say anything for sure without having their engineer inspect two different pairs.

- They can't inspect the pairs, because we are from the U.S. and warranty coverage is like zero audio minus the audio. ;)

- They've never heard of such am "unbelievably high" quality/failure rate in Japan.

- 6db bas variance doesn't meet their "very strict" standard.

- More specifically, they can't disclose the standards, but 6db is irregular.

- In Japan they are famous for the low failure rate.

- Variance could be due to damaged drives in long-transit.

- Variance could be due to dirt on the "damper cloth" at the end of the nozzle.

- Damper can sometime be cleaned with a "soft-cotton tipped stick."

- It is very possible there are fake tenores from certain sellers.

 

Also, they did say in the last message that there is a "characteristic variation as a manufactured product", but it is set low as to meet the quality they set for the tenore.

 

I might have been able to get more information from them if I was in Japan. There is a slight language barrier and the warranty coverage issue. If you bought them from an official Japanese distributor and have a bad pair or two varied pairs, it sounds like (from my communication with them) they are willing to have an engineer look into the difference and cause. But from the US we don't really have any options.

post #3323 of 4458
Maybe the singlios are and upgrade to the ten ore as people says it is😌
post #3324 of 4458
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiesOfAzel View Post
 

So today i received 2 of James' Tenores. His good pair is the best i've listened to so far. Here is a bass comparison between it and the rest of the pairs using a splitter, test tones and left/right db adjustments through my soundcard:

 

 

HZ --------- 40| 60| 80| 100| 120| 140| 160| 180| 200|

James' Bassy -4| +7| +3|  +4|  +3|  +2|  +1| +2| 00

My first pair  +1| +4| +2| +1|  +2|  +1|  00|  00|  00

My 2nd pair  -2| +3| +1|  +2|  +2|  +1|  00|  00| 00

 

 

Despite the fact James' reference pair produces more bass from 40hz and below, it sounds the flattest by far. The difference between my two pairs seems small but it's audible, my 1st pair sounds bassier. The drums reproduction issue is present with every pair i've tested to a certain degree. FR aside, there are common factors like sub bass elevation and longish decay times. Echo before attack in the transients also seems longer than average.

 

I would conclude that the Tenore driver is simply not equal to the tuning, a faster driver would handle the sub bass elevation more gracefully. In retrospect, a gentle roll off from 120hz and bellow would have made the slowness of the driver a lot less noticeable.

 

As for QC, it's simply atrocious. No two pairs share the exact same cable length. Bass tuning is as inconsistent as it gets. Members get pairs with channel imbalance or pairs that stop working after a few days. Testing with tones also shows some mild channel imbalance in the lower frequencies of most of the pairs i've tried. I love the Tenore, i truly do, but now that i had the opportunity to test a larger sample, i feel it would be irresponsible to recommend it to anyone when there are so many issues and inconsistencies with it.

 

^ Good work, congrats! :smile_phones:

 

So my bassy ones are the worst of the bunch by far... I think I'll try to open these up and have a look inside when I have them back.


It's puzzling that there seems to be a lot of variation between different pairs, yet variation between left and right earpiece of the same pair is only minor or nonexistent. Makes me suspect that there may be some "environmental" factor involved.

post #3325 of 4458
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiesOfAzel View Post
 

So today i received 2 of James' Tenores. His good pair is the best i've listened to so far. Here is a bass comparison between it and the rest of the pairs using a splitter, test tones and left/right db adjustments through my soundcard:

 

 

HZ --------- 40| 60| 80| 100| 120| 140| 160| 180| 200|

James' Bassy -4| +7| +3|  +4|  +3|  +2|  +1| +2| 00

My first pair  +1| +4| +2| +1|  +2|  +1|  00|  00|  00

My 2nd pair  -2| +3| +1|  +2|  +2|  +1|  00|  00| 00

 

 

Despite the fact James' reference pair produces more bass from 40hz and below, it sounds the flattest by far. The difference between my two pairs seems small but it's audible, my 1st pair sounds bassier. The drums reproduction issue is present with every pair i've tested to a certain degree. FR aside, there are common factors like sub bass elevation and longish decay times. Echo before attack in the transients also seems longer than average.

 

I would conclude that the Tenore driver is simply not equal to the tuning, a faster driver would handle the sub bass elevation more gracefully. In retrospect, a gentle roll off from 120hz and bellow would have made the slowness of the driver a lot less noticeable.

 

As for QC, it's simply atrocious. No two pairs share the exact same cable length. Bass tuning is as inconsistent as it gets. Members get pairs with channel imbalance or pairs that stop working after a few days. Testing with tones also shows some mild channel imbalance in the lower frequencies of most of the pairs i've tried. I love the Tenore, i truly do, but now that i had the opportunity to test a larger sample, i feel it would be irresponsible to recommend it to anyone when there are so many issues and inconsistencies with it.

 

^ Good work, congrats! :smile_phones:

 

So my bassy ones are the worst of the bunch by far... I think I'll try to open these up and have a look inside when I have them back.


It's puzzling that there seems to be a lot of variation between different pairs, yet variation between left and right earpiece of the same pair is only minor or nonexistent. Makes me suspect that there may be some "environmental" factor involved.

 

Interesting I never really thought of that. So far all my sets have been the same left and right. Hmmm.

post #3326 of 4458

With all the variations if you buy a pair of bassy or end up with the flatest one the tenores are still great phones for the buck from any point. You can't tell for sure if you have one or the other, mine still sound great after 4 month of beating with many hours a day and make me a very happy buyer. Even with the few of defective ones, there are not many ppl who can tell from their heart that the tenores sound wrong or bad, everyone here is still loving their sound.

post #3327 of 4458
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post
 

 

^ Good work, congrats! :smile_phones:

 

So my bassy ones are the worst of the bunch by far... I think I'll try to open these up and have a look inside when I have them back.


It's puzzling that there seems to be a lot of variation between different pairs, yet variation between left and right earpiece of the same pair is only minor or nonexistent. Makes me suspect that there may be some "environmental" factor involved.

 

I wouldn't call it the worst by far, it still sounds good and you can vent mod it to make it sound flatter. The delta between your pairs is very noticeable though, i didn't expect a difference this big. Your reference pair is the least bassy Tenore i've tried (both my pairs sound a little bassier) so i will have to repeat the 40hz test. Bass being non directional makes it harder to test it reliably with your ears the lower you go.

 

[EDIT]

What threw me off the first time with the bassy pair at 40-80hz is the fact that it unfortunately exhibits some distortion at higher volumes (it sounds like shell resonance). It probably has less actual bass but it's hard to compare it with a non distorting pair. 


Edited by SkiesOfAzel - 7/5/14 at 4:21am
post #3328 of 4458

I guess you have same tips on all pairs,how about blind test without knowing which pair is James & which pair is yours.

post #3329 of 4458
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuZo2 View Post
 

I guess you have same tips on all pairs,how about blind test without knowing which pair is James & which pair is yours.

 

I use my default medium tips on purpose, as they have the same wear on them. As for blind testing, i will give it a go at some point, i just have to figure out a way to take usable notes without knowing which pair is which.

 

[EDIT]

 

I don't think i need to do a blind test though, i decided to retest against the left driver of the bassy pair instead of the right since it produces less distortion. This time variations between pairs seemed to be in the 1-3 db region, which is acceptable imo. I think we can turn off the alarm now :D. Sorry for causing undue worry guys, i should have triple tested before posting my findings :(.


Edited by SkiesOfAzel - 7/5/14 at 7:49am
post #3330 of 4458
I'll still wait before placing them back on my table...

How big are the cable length differences?
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