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[REVIEW] Aurisonics ASG-2 (Updated with ASG-2.5 and Tralucent Ref 1) - Page 272

post #4066 of 5391
 
Originally Posted by Kurdt-bada View Post

...I'm only pointing that not everybody shares the same opinion and at the end you should hear them by yourself to draw final conclusions...

 

Yeah.. I think that's pretty well understood at HeadFi (and in the personal audio sphere, in general) by now.  There's isn't a more repeated advisory than this, really.  It's foregone conclusion.  I just see no reason why it's continually posted.. over and over and over again (not you.. but by members many here).

 

YMMV, IME, IMO, "take my impressions with a grain of salt," caveat emptor, etc. etc. etc.  Yes.. the only way to truly get an idea of a phone is to hear it yourself.. yes yes yes.. we know.

 

...moving on now.

post #4067 of 5391
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlySweep View Post

Yeah.. I think that's pretty well understood at HeadFi (and in the personal audio sphere, in general) by now.  There's isn't a more repeated advisory than this, really.  It's foregone conclusion.  I just see no reason why it's continually posted.. over and over and over again (not you.. but by members many here).

YMMV, IME, IMO, "take my impressions with a grain of salt," caveat emptor, etc. etc. etc.  Yes.. the only way to truly get an idea of a phone is to hear it yourself.. yes yes yes.. we know.

...moving on now.

IMO I believe it is a concept that not only should be repeated, but must be repeated. It is pretty easy to get lost in all the comments and to forget everything is subjective. For non experienced members, this repetition is beneficial.
post #4068 of 5391
What I'm trying to say is if you check the thread and the reviews most of them are different while they share some characteristics. Im pointing that this is a bit weird, so why dismiss a phone considering only one review?

Excuse me if this is well know but I'm relatively new around here
post #4069 of 5391
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurdt-bada View Post

What I'm trying to say is if you check the thread and the reviews most of them are different while they share some characteristics. Im pointing that this is a bit weird, so why dismiss a phone considering only one review?

Excuse me if this is well know but I'm relatively new around here

 

Sorry, but you're applying the same principle you're preaching against. Most people here, including myself, have said the FA-4E is a phone worth buying. Only one person (gnarlsagan) has said otherwise. The way he evaluates phones is completely different from most of the people on the site. 

 

He didn't dismiss the phone, he only said it's not for him. Read carefully.

post #4070 of 5391
Maybe Im messing things up ive only read last posts so i dont know exactly how gnarlsagan evaluates phones and probably that's the key error to all of this discussion.

When i said dismiss i was trying to say that the phones weren't for him, my english is not very good as you can see.

On the other hand I'm pointing that all the mixed reviews make me think about the subjetivity around here.
post #4071 of 5391
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveTan View Post


IMO I believe it is a concept that not only should be repeated, but must be repeated. It is pretty easy to get lost in all the comments and to forget everything is subjective. For non experienced members, this repetition is beneficial.


I agree, with responsibility and having some gift in describing sound, it's rather important to keep members in check that something is purely your preference only, especially high post count members such as some of us in this thread right now.  Unexperienced members look up to us and will follow our lead. Nothing wrong with dropping 'IMO' at the end. It's like a safety feature that wins you immunity if some noob members takes your word and makes a purchase after reading your review and don't like the earphone.

IMO. 
 

post #4072 of 5391
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveTan View Post


IMO I believe it is a concept that not only should be repeated, but must be repeated. It is pretty easy to get lost in all the comments and to forget everything is subjective. For non experienced members, this repetition is beneficial.

 

Not to mention we sometimes are taken to task by some Head-Fiers when a remark, which is our opinion, is stated as though it were fact.

post #4073 of 5391
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurdt-bada View Post

Maybe Im messing things up ive only read last posts so i dont know exactly how gnarlsagan evaluates phones and probably that's the key error to all of this discussion.

When i said dismiss i was trying to say that the phones weren't for him, my english is not very good as you can see.

On the other hand I'm pointing that all the mixed reviews make me think about the subjetivity around here

 

Your english is good enough :)

 

 

Just take a look at the list of impressions I've compiled in the first post to see just how much things can vary. I realized long ago that it's not just that we hear things differently, but we also assign different values to different parts of the sound experience. Gnarlsagan values linearity above all, and one of his main things he looks for is a boosted upper midrange, not unlike that found in the Etymotic range of iems.

Trying to describe the way you hear a sound is much like trying to tell someone else how badly a painful stimulus hurts you. Everyone has different tolerance levels.

post #4074 of 5391
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiascogarcia View Post
 

 

Not to mention we sometimes are taken to task by some Head-Fiers when a remark, which is our opinion, is stated as though it were fact.

 

I don't really feel it has to be said out loud every time we post impressions. Even though it's our opinion, it's still what we're hearing. This should be a given with any type of review, audio or otherwise. Having to say that takes away from the immediacy of one's impressions, especially if you're trying to convey emotion. It's like trying to tell a paranoid schizophrenic that he should end his statements with YMMV.

 

"My oven is going to eat me in my sleep!!!!......in my opinion."

post #4075 of 5391
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post
 

 

I don't really feel it has to be said out loud every time we post impressions. Even though it's our opinion, it's still what we're hearing. This should be a given with any type of review, audio or otherwise. Having to say that takes away from the immediacy of one's impressions, especially if you're trying to convey emotion. It's like trying to tell a paranoid schizophrenic that he should end his statements with YMMV.

 

"My oven is going to eat me in my sleep!!!!......in my opinion."

 

I like cheese. It's good in my opinion. ymmv if you don't like cheese imo.

post #4076 of 5391
Thread Starter 

Sorry for the triple post, but I found this whilst browsing innerfidelity:

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/canjam-rmaf-2013-cardas-em5813-ear-speakers

 

I remember when Tyll's AS-2 review came out, he said they sounded horrible, bassy, and that there was no treble. Then, here we have the EM5813, an iem that's darker and bassier than the AS-2 series by everyone who's heard both, yet it's described as a "smooth, old school" sound...

 

Quote:
 I don't think you can compare the Cardas EM5813 to other IEMs—it's rather in a class of its own. It's a George Cardas Ear Speaker, and if you like George and his stuff, you'll probably like them. I do. They're a cool pice of kit, really nicely made, with a smooth old school sound. In my experience, they're exactly the kind of thing that goes over well in the Orient.

 

 

versus:

 

Quote:
 Once I got what I felt was the best adjustment, I still found these cans remain uneven in response. The bass sounded loose and confused, and lacked extension into the lowest octave. The mid-range was fair, but tended toward a warm tilt that continued into the treble in an ever steepening roll-off. To be truthful, I found these so poor sounding I almost didn't include them in the review. The lack of high frequency response is so severe I thought for a while that the tweeters might not even be hooked up, but I could equalize the upper treble into existence so I doubt that's the case. There is a chance that there is a problem with this set; I will return them to Aurisonics for inspection. If it turn out they were faulty, I will listen to replacement pair and report back hear and in a monthly update.

 

That was 6 months ago.

 

 

Another example of subjectivity for ya, Kurt


Edited by eke2k6 - 11/6/13 at 3:13pm
post #4077 of 5391
Well that subjectivity seems quite a little unbiased in other words that guy is a cardas fanboy xD
Edited by Kurdt-bada - 11/6/13 at 3:23pm
post #4078 of 5391
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnityIsPower View Post

G'man, could you listen to the Ben Howard song on both phones and let me know what differences you hear?

 

The ASG-2 gives this song (to borrow vwinter's recent phrasing) amazing dimensionality. The background keyboard sounds like it exists some distance away from the singer and drummer. Reverb seems to echo off of wide walls. The strumming of the guitar is a just a bit harsher than I'd think it is in real life. But overall I'd say this song sounds amazing on the ASG-2, and much better than on the GR07 BE.

 

The GR07 places vocals a bit more forward to my ears, and less warm. Treble is also not as emphasized, and neither is midbass. I think this has the effect of narrowing the perceived soundstage, and the different elements of sound don't seem as well delineated from each other. I'm not sure it's just FR that accentuates different aspects of the recording, but the GR07 doesn't seem to have enough "definition" compared to the ASG-2 on this track. I've actually had this problem with the GR07 in the past, which is why I've sold it (twice). 

 

There are other tracks that sound better on the GR07 to me. In fact, I prefer the GR07 for most music, but the ASG-2 completely excels at certain tracks in ways that the GR07 wishes it could someday when it grows up. I think this Ben Howard song is one of them. Of Monsters and Men is another, but to a lesser degree. Eke recommended them to me a few days ago, and their style indeed follows a pattern that shows the strengths of the ASG-2, namely the uncanny ability to separate and define instruments in a 3D space. I do have a few issues though with the ASG-2 and Of Monsters and Men, which is simply a lack of upper-mid emphasis and occasional sibilance. These two issues can make vocals sound oddly distant and simultaneously sharp, but only when there is a lot of other sound. More sparsely arranged music with only vocals, guitar and light percussion sound consistently great on the ASG-2 to my ears. It's when other instruments join the mix that I get an odd impressions of warmth, distance and sharpness, which all negatively affect my listening with almost all complex music on the ASG-2.

 

I'd like to take a small detour here and mention that I've compared these songs using a third iem (that isn't the ER4S lol). Yes I've mentioned which one in another thread; it's the Sony MH1. This iem has sparked at least some controversy around here, with initial graphs showing a very poorly performing product, with 20dB (yes 20freakingdB) bass emphasis. It was found later that the test pair was defective (sound familiar anyone?), and additional measurements were carried out, showing a much better performing iem, with much less bass, well extended treble and minimal distortion.

 

So how does the MH1 sound? As far the ability to separate instruments and define them as individual sounds in a 3D space, I'd put it in between the GR07 and ASG-2, but closer to the ASG-2. With somewhat simpler acoustic music, the ASG-2 is just very very good at creating a convincing sound environment, and it's flaws in mid-bass emphasis, lacking upper-mids and treble sharpness aren't very apparent. With more complex music however, I find that those flaws become very obvious, and they start chipping away at the beautiful soundscape created with simper music. The MH1 doesn't do this. While it doesn't sound as impressive with sparser arrangements, it holds up surprisingly well with complex rock, electronic, etc. Sounds exist in their own space, and are well defined. I'm not pulled from the music by any rising mid-bass or vocal unevenness. Vocal tonality is near Goldilocks perfect. Not too warm, not too cold. Just right. There is no sibilance, even from the king of sibilance, Freddie Mercury. Compare this to the somewhat too warm ASG-2 and slightly too cold GR07.  

 

What about bass? There is more sub-bass on the MH1, and less mid-bass. In fact, I think that if the next revision of the ASG-2 is meant to have a better mid-bass to sub-bass ratio, then it will probably end up sounding closer to the MH1. The bass is emphasized, and how much depends largely on listening volume. The MH1 sounds flat at much lower volumes than the ER4S, for example. Bass is just as fast as on the ASG-2, with notes starting and stopping, and rising and falling with similar speed. Under most listening circumstances that involve higher volumes, I'd likely eq the MH1's bass down by a few dB at 125Hz. But because the MH1's bass is centered more on sub-bass than mid-bass, it actually sounds less warm than the ASG-2. As an example of the MH1's bass, I'd like to present these two graphs:

 

 

This should give an impression of how much bass emphasis exists on the MH1. Looks similar right? The MH1 actually has less bass than the (near) universally praised AKG K3003. The MH1's mids are also more linear, and notice the lack of peaks at 5k and 9k. Also of note is the increased treble extension of the MH1. Well, surely there's more to this than FR right? Okay let's look at the impulse response. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the impulse response should show how quickly the driver stops moving after a burst of sound (among quite a few other things including FR). A driver that stops more quickly has a faster settling time, and adds less after-the-fact sound information to a particular sound. I think this is partly where we get the term "fast" or "slow" drivers. Does the driver stop moving in time to play the next sound? Or is the driver still moving by the time the next note starts? We can see this information here: 

 

 

 

We can see that the MH1's driver actually stops moving after a burst of sound a bit faster than the K3003. (There are some other issues with both IR's, but let's stay focused). Now, I didn't add the ASG-2 here because there may be issues with the measurements of that particular pair. But, let's just say that it might measure considerably worse than both the MH1 and the K3003. Now maybe you don't really go for measurements, so here's the kicker. These measurements line up with what I hear from the MH1 and ASG-2. A poor impulse response would partly explain why the ASG-2 does poorly with more complex music, not only because of the issues with FR, but also because the driver is a bit slow to stop moving after a sound is played. 

 

So when we talk about speed, I'd say the MH1 is actually a faster driver to my ears, and by the measurements (so far). I will admit that the bass of the MH1 hangs a bit more than I'd like (which is visible on the third dip of the MH1 impulse response), but it really is such a simple eq fix. It will be very interesting to compare the MH1 with the K3003, to see exactly how irregularities in both the frequency and time domains will affect sound. 

 

All in all, I think the MH1 is a fantastic iem. It has better and more linear treble extension than both the ASG-2 and K3003; it has better distortion performance than the ASG-2 (TBD), and similar distortion performance to the K3003. It is able to convincingly place instruments in a sound field better than the GR07 BE, and better than the ASG-2 during complex passages. It doesn't suffer from any sibilance or missing mids. Vocals are extremely tone accurate, 99% as accurate (and I hesitate to say this) as the ER4S.

 

I've spent about 10 hours trying to find flaws with the MH1. I've listened intently for flaws in driver speed, imaging, tonality, and FR. With most iems I can find at least a couple very obvious issues after only a few songs. Tonality will be off, treble will be spiked, or imaging sucks. With the MH1, I found none of this. I can only say that there is a bit too much bass emphasis for my personal taste. And I just realized I haven't even mentioned the price of the MH1: $20. I would be blown away at the performance of this iem at any price. I prefer it to everything I've heard so far, the IE800, UERM, ASG-2, GR07, F111, everything (bar the ER4S) simply because I can't find anything wrong with it. Maybe someone could point me in the direction of a flaw or two, but I'd request that you be sure that your model doesn't suffer from the 20freakingdB bass boost that existed on some models. Another user and I bought ours from amazon quite recently, and couldn't be happier.

post #4079 of 5391

Guys I just stumbled upon this new album on youtube and the mastering style caught my eye.

Lorde - pure Heroin 

I caught it when i was listening on my Srh-1840 then i decided to plug in my ASG-2 to see how it faired. 

WOW loving this ! 

I am quickly transfering it to my AK100 before leaving the house to buy lunch. 

 

After a quick listen. 

You might want to Eq the bass down abit. 

But Lorde's vocals are very very nice. 

post #4080 of 5391

My beloved ASG-2 are back! I love how they make it sound like there's more music. It's not really louder. It's just more of everything. And it's so incredibly tactile and intimate. Indeed special iems. 

 

Oh, and gnarl. From what I remember that I thought sounded off with my MH1C was the treble. It's too polite and to me it sounded like it lacked presence a bit and made up for it by having a peak that took over the presentation. But I will make sure to listen twice and I might change that statement.


Edited by MoonYeol - 11/7/13 at 11:48am
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