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[REVIEW] Aurisonics ASG-2 (Updated with ASG-2.5 and Tralucent Ref 1) - Page 194

post #2896 of 5300
Thread Starter 

Just finished watching Jamaica make the rest of the world look silly in track and field :)

 

Anyway, as for the 1Plus2 vs ASG-2 thing, I think preference will dictate everything. In my opinion, they are both world class phones. My definition of top tier comes from the level of sound refinement. Both iems, as well as every iem I reviewed in this thread, stand above the likes of the UM3X, GR07, etc due to this. I do admit that the (revised!) 1Plus2 can be a better all rounder due to the more even sound sig. The original set that I reviewed was too sharp in the treble and too thin in the mids, similar to how the ASG-2 can be too excessive in the mid-bass and not dig quite deep enough on some tracks. All the same, one has to pick the iem that sounds the best to them. For me, the ASG-2 is the better all-rounder because I can listen to the millions of genres I like without fatigue, while retaining some of the best transparency into the recording I've heard. For me, transparency is the ability to show every flaw in the recording, such as poor dynamics, shoddy recording work, etc. The G-2 does this without spitting it in your face like iems like the Flat-4 and original 1P2 tended to do. That's why it's my favorite iem to date. I also love the fact that it sneaks certain things up on you. For instance, Gintaras mentioned that he finds the soundstage smaller than that of the 1P2, but I disagree. The difference I hear comes from the more recessed mids and more present treble of the 1P2, giving a greater sense of space. It's kind of like decorating a living room with just a big TV and a leather couch, versus populating it with a sofa, love seat, side table, pool table, etc. It's the same amount of square footage, just different applications. That's why I told Ginny to try out binaural tracks with both to evaluate them. Nonetheless, I do find the 1P2 spectacular in its own right. But I also find the IE800, 334, and Flat-4 to be amazing at what they do as well. It al comes down to preference. It's like asking a group of people at an ice cream shop which flavor they think is the greatest. I hate chocolate ice cream, but many will say it's amazing. 

 

 

H20 and Ginny, I think it's a bit closed minded to write of graphs. It's similar to one's drunk uncle at a Christmas dinner loudly talking about how cell phones waves are used by the government as a form of population mind control. They have very useful purposes, and combined with other data, can give a somewhat decent (but not definite) idea of whether or not you'll like an iem. I'm sure you don't want to come off like this guy:

 

Tide-comes-in-tide-goes-out-You-cant-explain-that.jpg

 

 

I understand the apprehension at those who perpetrate the graphs with a snotty attitude. They think all headphones should match some sort of ideal curve, not terribly dissimilar to the type of idealism of 1940s Germany. Still, sticking our heads in the sand is counterproductive. 

post #2897 of 5300
Eke, excuse me but one question i asked the graph lovers to answer. Do they believe that engineers from companies like Aurisonics, who come from pro musical background, have no idea about graphs and measurements? Do they think these dudes make IEMs and then ops all of a sudden from his shell comes a dude with his graph to tell the story? mate, that's too much for me and i cannot stop laughing at graphs lovers, they really believe that the makers of expensive IEMs are so stupid, cool... No further comment. :-P
post #2898 of 5300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gintaras View Post

Eke, excuse me but one question i asked the graph lovers to answer. Do they believe that engineers from companies like Aurisonics, who come from pro musical background, have no idea about graphs and measurements? Do they think these dudes make IEMs and then ops all of a sudden from his shell comes a dude with his graph to tell the story? mate, that's too much for me and i cannot stop laughing at graphs lovers, they really believe that the makers of expensive IEMs are so stupid, cool... No further comment. :-P
What makes me laugh quite a bit, no offense meant to anyone, is that graphs are meant for more objectivity, but when I hear someone say: I hear them just like the graph, it sounds totally non objective. You read the graph and expect to hear them in a certain way...and then poof, my magical ears hear them just like the graph. I would like to do a test: show people random graphs and see if they say they hear the iem just like the graph.
post #2899 of 5300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gintaras View Post

and one question @ graphs lovers. guys, do you really SERIOUSLY believe that Aurisonics, making pro monitors for onstage artists, has no idea about graphs and measurements??? COOL........ i am all ears to have your story popcorn.gif

 

Gintaras, please re-read my short review, I tried to explain why I think they're tuned like this. (Btw, without a single mention of graphs. wink.gif)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

Bottom line: these are definitely stage monitors imo, and they make no secret of it. At that, I'd think they're pretty competent, since their midrange has excellent presence and quality. Bass is tight and nicely textured and offers more than sufficient punch in reserve to counter the masking effect in noisy surroundings, while highs are decidedly pulled back to minimize the risk of long-term listening fatigue.

 

Let's not construe a contradiction that doesn't exists, of course Aurisonics know how to tune stage monitors, and Rin's measurements are pretty much in line with a stage monitor tuning.

 

I personally think the real annoyance is his provocative "telephone receiver" remark. People are getting the wrong idea from it, and I could have happily lived without it.

post #2900 of 5300

Jack Daniel's cables, chocolate ice-cream, Barry Manilow, Nir Iohc, Skni, Kiteki's veeeery sexy pics, james444 singing, Gintara's daily 36-hr ASG-2 marathons….… This is all becoming a little too confusing and esoteric for my liking. Can we all at least agree the K3003s suck?

post #2901 of 5300
If we don't have graphs then people will be duped into buying crap iems. People gloss over major flaws in their reviews. No one mentions the giant treble peak of the Flat-4, only that it has "airy treble". No one mentions the uneven mids of the ASG-2, lacking 2.5k and 5k (except shotgunshane), only that it has "the best mids ever." None of this is at all helpful to a prospective buyer, and is misleading at best. Even if people hear differently, being more specific about what is heard would be much more helpful to others. Treble peaks really need to be addressed and quantified instead of just ignored, because it matters to people. I care more about flaws than strengths, because the flaws are what's going to break the listening experience.

It would he helpful to address how fit affects sound as well. Does shallow fit increase sibilance for instance? Is sub-bass affected? These are just suggestions for reviewers to consider if they actually want their reviews to be helpful to others, and they're not just showing off their gear.

I'll reiterate it here just so the hype train loses the momentum it seems to be building. The ASG-2 does some things well, but also has some massive flaws imo that keep it from being a top tier contender. I do think however that Dale will address these flaws and continue to improve on these the ASG-2. (These improvements will probably make it "flatter" like most improvements tend to do, validation for the complaints about problems that already existed, but time will tell.)
Edited by gnarlsagan - 8/18/13 at 10:57am
post #2902 of 5300
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

Jack Daniel's cables, chocolate ice-cream, Barry Manilow, Nir Iohc, Skni, Kiteki's veeeery sexy pics, james444 singing, Gintara's daily 36-hr ASG-2 marathons….… This is all becoming a little too confusing and esoteric for my liking. Can we all at least agree the K3003s suck?

 

I wish I hadn't been drinking water when I read that.

post #2903 of 5300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimouille View Post

I would like to do a test: show people random graphs and see if they say they hear the iem just like the graph.

That's how the graph standards were made.
post #2904 of 5300
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

Jack Daniel's cables, chocolate ice-cream, Barry Manilow, Nir Iohc, Skni, Kiteki's veeeery sexy pics, james444 singing, Gintara's daily 36-hr ASG-2 marathons….… This is all becoming a little too confusing and esoteric for my liking. Can we all at least agree the K3003s suck?

Hey, hey, HEY, I just so happen to be interested in those sucky IEMs!
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
you may have a PM incoming wink.gif
post #2905 of 5300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gintaras View Post

Eke, excuse me but one question i asked the graph lovers to answer. Do they believe that engineers from companies like Aurisonics, who come from pro musical background, have no idea about graphs and measurements? Do they think these dudes make IEMs and then ops all of a sudden from his shell comes a dude with his graph to tell the story? mate, that's too much for me and i cannot stop laughing at graphs lovers, they really believe that the makers of expensive IEMs are so stupid, cool... No further comment. :-P

You're misunderstanding IMO. It would certainly odd that the makers didn't have measuring equipment. But that's not really the point.

The difference is that without people like Rin or Tyll or Purrin etc, it wouldn't matter if the manufacturers even do measurements because we would never know anything about them.

Does that matter for listening preferences? No.

But it does matter in the sense that:
1) It creates, if even a little bit, a situation of accountability.
2) Allows those who care to better understand what they are hearing from a different angle.


On a more personal note:
This "war" you all, on both sides, have created on these forums is so incredibly stupid to me and such a waste that I'm at a loss for words because you all seem like such incredibly intelligent people.

And I'm writing this from my vacation where I really wanted to stay away for a week.
post #2906 of 5300
James, no disagreement and your review is spot on, if you happen to like k3003 or 1plus2 better i know and respect your point.
My comment was directed more at blind graph interpreters and i am sorry but Rin summaries for me personally are mumblings of tech words without much sense ... I am not tech professional and do not read graphs but i understand language and can read mathematical or physics texts or medical texts and all of them sound more simple compared to Rin... which drives me to one idea, the guy cannot place a well understandable descript, which is weird for someone who claims to know what he is doing.

Nothing against, just a thought.

Vwinter, no disagreement, share your points but to a certain limit.

Music, come on, have a bit more chocolate :-D

For graphs lovers, good material here http://www.who.int/occupational_health/publications/noise1.pdf
Edited by Gintaras - 8/18/13 at 10:03am
post #2907 of 5300
All this talk really makes me curious of how the ASG-2 sounds... However I agree with gnarl on this one. Measurements are in my opinion needed. They don't tell the whole tale. But I'd guess that if graphs didn't exist the descriptions of what we hear would be much more illustrative and a lot less exact. Measurements are really the only way to compare in a way that makes sense without becoming elitist. Then of course results must he taken for what they are. Not absolute truths but a caption of what just happened when equipment A, B, C, D and E measured the response to X on headphone Z. Without research on human hearing based on a lot of experimenting and measuring I don't think the audio industry would be where it is today. And on the other side of the fence, running towards the same pot of gold, are the manufacturers who research and measure how to optimally enjoy what the music industry produces. Yes it's mostly about money but I don't think that a world where people didn't measure or value graphs would have such high quality audio at such low cost. It's also part of the process to learn what people like.

"Hey, many complained about having too much bass. Then we lowered the response at 200 Hz by 4dB and people were satisfied."
"Some say that it feels like knives are piercing their eardrums. Maybe the huge spike at 7kHz could be the reason? Oh wait.. isn't there some kind of natural resonance to the ear as well?"

I just find it so stupid that we're arguing about this.. By the way, I like what Rin did confronting for example Heir about their iems. What I don't like is HOW he did it. Heir didn't respond professionally but I can understand why they didn't. If people were only a bit more humble.. Enough ranting. My galaxy S4 says "Dayum boi, ged off ma screen!"
post #2908 of 5300
MoonYeol, indeed all this talk had one aim, to make you interested... And we failed :-(

Seriously graphs and measurements are perfectly legitimate but making graphs the basis for judging sound is in my very humble opinion false.

Btw, i posted interesting document about sound or better say noise, this is medical paper but surprisingly good if you want to understand what and why we hearing, just skip some complex formulas and concentrate on meanings :-)
post #2909 of 5300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gintaras View Post

MoonYeol, indeed all this talk had one aim, to make you interested... And we failed :-(

Seriously graphs and measurements are perfectly legitimate but making graphs the basis for judging sound is in my very humble opinion false.

Btw, i posted interesting document about sound or better say noise, this is medical paper but surprisingly good if you want to understand what and why we hearing, just skip some complex formulas and concentrate on meanings :-)

I've been waiting for my G-2's for over a month now. I was hooked after eke's review. Now I've understood 2 things. I have some kind of hoarding issue and I want to collect at least 5-6 high quality iems of different signatures but I can't imagine selling the mid-fi ones I own. And I would probably be better off with the 1+2 since I like treble extension, sub bass and detail. Damn this is going to be expensive.

As far as the article goes I'm more on the medical side of sound than on the physics side. It's been 6 years since I read anything about physics.
post #2910 of 5300

Things are a lot simpler.

The problem is not the graphs / measurements themselves, but the pronouncements some people make and the attitude they display in several forum threads. We often get two camps: the graph believers / enthusiasts / followers / worshippers, with their respective Gods (aka those responsible for producing such data), and the graph haters, who will always claim graphs are useless, that they don't listen with their eyes but their ears. Several graphs haters have become so because of the downright fundamentalist attitude by some graphs F.A.N.A.T.I.C.S.

So, we have that, according to graphs, two of the very best IEMs are the Etymotic ER4S & FitEar F111 (the latter inspired by the former). We are led to believe by some people that the closer an IEM measures to the ER4S & F111, the better it sounds. So, I've asked this question a couple of times in different threads: If we—or many of us—already know that supposedly the ER4S is it, why is it that most people do not prefer that type of sound? The excuse that people don't get the right fit with the Etys isn't good enough in my book (as evidenced recently, thank God!, by the much more ergonomic F111). The other excuse explanation that people prefer bass-heavy sounds / music is, to this extremely humble sparrow … er, how shall I put it?…. a blatant cop-out? Yes, a cop-out sounds about right.

I do value graphs myself because I have a little understanding of them (though I still need to learn more, but not yet desperate to do more learning just yet). Reliable measurements can give me a hint of how an earphone sounds, and that's something I value, and I appreciate the work of those who have produced such data. My experience has shown me that sometimes certain graphs seem to be a bit off, or quite off. When a phone is very popular, we can get several graphs and contrast / compare each. Even then, there's more to graphs than meets the eye (and ear!)

Graphs are even more valuable for those who are unable to audition phones in a shop or attend a meet. And even a shop meet environment isn't always ideal to get a real taste of what a phone sounds like, unless we've tried it in a quiet environment where we're also reasonably relaxed, AND for a reasonable amount of time.

I sometimes have a quiet laugh when I read someone mentions a bump or dip of 1 or 2 dB making a noticeable difference. I'd love to see some of them do a proper blind test and see if they can tell the difference between 1 or 2 dB…

I also have a not so quiet laugh when I see people discussing frequencies above 12, 14 or or even 16khz and the mandatory bump / dip of 1, 2 or 3 dB.

But hey, we even get people who claim they can hear a difference between FLAC and WAV, so I guess ageing, though not necessarily grumpy, sparrows are just way too old... and their hearing practically gone.

And so on, and so forth...


Edited by music_4321 - 8/18/13 at 1:20pm
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