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[REVIEW] Aurisonics ASG-2 & 2.5 (with many comparisons) - Page 163

post #2431 of 6782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

Got then today, these definitely lack subbass. Very midrange oriented, it's like the UM3X in a way, stage monitor sound...

 

Agreed there.

 

As for the subbass... I finally bit the bullet and pulled up the graph with a sine wave generator. My conclusion? The bass is somewhere in between tinyman's graph and Rin's. There was a pretty sharp drop-off in bass under 100Hz on Rin's graph. I didn't hear any notable changes in relative loudness until 80Hz (so it started at 70Hz). After that it started to lower, but not nearly as much as Rin's graph, but not so little as Tinyman's. Where as Rin's looked to be 1/2ing every 10Hz, I heard just under 1/5ing (approximately) in loudness. Noticeable, yes, but bothersome, no... it still had rumble at 20Hz and I was still able to detect some air movement under that, but it was barely noticeable. 20Hz was there, but low. It was more than many others I've heard though, which is good. Eke said that he heard no difference in loudness between 30 and 60, I heard about a 1/4 loudness difference. But there was still some rumble there. If the crossvalve mod happens and shifts some of that midbass (which is pretty much even with the midrange) to subbass, these will be essentially perfect to my ears. 

post #2432 of 6782
Interestingly, I'd agree less with the specifically midrange oriented part, but agree more on the UM3X part just based on descriptions I've heard about it being able to isolate the midrange. But then it would probably have a wider sound than the UM3X (correct this if I'm wrong please).

I disagree with the midrange oriented because as i hear it and as the levels show, it has just about as much presence at 10k and 150hz as it does at 1k. In that way, if there was more upper treble, then I'd call it well balanced but, realistically it's oriented toward the bottom 2/3's of the spectrum instead of just the midrange.


Note this is with bass port open 1/3 to the first notch.



Would you say you hear about a 4-5db drop from 80 - 20hz?
Edited by vwinter - 8/4/13 at 9:55am
post #2433 of 6782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gintaras View Post

i surely pity that UnityS did not like ASG because he came from H200 which i like a lot and which he did not like as well but... i never asked him to love H200 and i am well Ok he decide to sell it because this is his choice. what pains me here is that Unity did not notice from early beginning that many people loving ASG also think H200 is good IEM and that had to be a warning signal for him because from what i hear he seems not to like particular coloration and music presentation type on these IEMs. this means that neither of them will be good for him.

•I really like the H200's sound, I sold them cuz of comfort and driver flex. I would in-fact place them a little higher then my GR07's in enjoyment(tho I've spent much more time with the 07's). I would still have trouble picking one over the other tho, sound wise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkcc View Post

Also well stated but not totally sure where is the "correction"...

I can see how you think Unity might not made the most informed purchase decision but that doesn't made him less credible about how he subjectively feel about the product.

•I can see that also, lol. #retrospect

Personally I feel he is not having vicious intention by giving his opinion on performance vs value. I don't necessary agree with his assessment but he has all the rights to state them and I personally never felt it is excessively snarky nor rude. Afterall he isn't purporting to be a professional reviewer nor runs an analysis blog etc I honestly can't expect another member to toned his opinions in a more neutral or any particular manner. I personally try to write "more thoughfully" than giving rash comments (positive or negative ones) as I think that is a more effective communication style (and many members here do that better most of the times, yourself included) but I won't expect everyone having the same approach and I would make my own judgement how to interpret everyone's comment as I read them.

•Great! What parts specifically do you disagree with mate? Can you quote them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gintaras View Post

i am not disputing Unity and his right to his opinion. i know Unity is very open and honest chap and it pains me seeing him going through this. i know he does this out of his sincere belief and i find nothing wrong with that.

one issue i try mention here is that it's not only Unity but others around and me including, we all make mistakes from time to time and cost of mistake pains. that said i must admit many products are good products but not all are for my taste. take excellent Mytek DSD DAC, many people with mega buck systems love it while i did not and so gave it back to the seller. does it stop Mytek from being a good DAC? no way. does it mean this was not for me? yes you can bet it was not.

so if the product is not cutting it for me i would put my reasons and mention my personal bias.

anyway, lets move on and i wish Unity would find a good way with Aurisonics to overcome this sad issue. from what i heard Aurisonics are serious professionals and i am sure they can help here. perhaps there was some mistake on the user part in process of contact. sometimes we become too demanding and do not understand that there are also humans sitting on the other end working for the company making this gear. so some humbleness and patience can be rewarding.

1•They have been quite professional so far.

2•Perhaps, yes.

3•I wasn't demanding a refund. Like I also stated, "how he replies is very important". How they responded was also why I asked for a refund BTW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonYeol View Post

Umm. Treat others like you want them to treat you?

It's been an interesting read. I also wonder what eke got banned for. The two ideas about sending Rin another pair of ASG-2 and asking Unity to send his pair to Aurisonics sounds like a good idea to me.
I always try to be a bit pragmatic and solve things the easiest way possible. We also need to take a step back and start respecting what other people are saying and also make it clear that what we are saying are personal opinions and not facts (if that is true for said statement).

•Yup

I'm also wondering about the sub bass and higher treble. Doesn't innerfidelity specifically point out that <100Hz and >10kHz are frequencies where the measurements may not be correct? Just thinking out loud. Don't quote me on that.

•This post is interesting:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/664613/review-aurisonics-asg-2-plus-sd3-1plus2-tg334-senn-ie800-flat-4-sui-rdb-2v1/1995#post_9647399
Quote:
Originally Posted by LCfiner View Post

This sounds awful to me. And seems like such a bad idea for readers of the site I can’t even tell if you’re being sarcastic.

People who are curious to read about a headphone to figure out if they should spend money to buy one should be able to read all types of information in a general equipment thread and not have it censored into some type of non-representative love-in.


•Get um LCfiner! Lol

Rin’s graphs do not affect your appreciation for the headphone. But they are useful for people who do know what types of sound signatures they like to get an idea of whether they would appreciate the headphone in question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimouille View Post

Guys let us not have the same discussion over and over again. Everyone agrees that measuring headphones is a useful tool (well apart from me, I care nothing about measurement as long as an iem makes me happy). What people do not like is the following, SYSTEMATIC behaviour: "this iem that you seem to love measures horribly according to one set of measurements so it must sound like crap and you are a deluded fool for liking it. Oh and you cannot answer anything because the measurements I refer to are undisputable scientific facts so I have Descartes on my side." I do have to admit, quite begrudgingly, that Inks much improved his communication skills in that respect and did say that he would listen to the ASG2 to confirm the measurements. So in my opinion, much of the heated debate also stems from past experience and the apprehension of seeing a peaceful thread ruined like many in the past.

•I don't read inks like that intentional(I think) exaggeration but maybe not read enough by him?

•I have enjoyed the post I've read from inks so far. Aldo I can see your point from some of his post, I think he calls it how he sees it. I also asked inks before my purchase for advice on what to buy, given I like the GR07's, something balanced to slightly U shaped, and just whatever he finds good below $600. I wasn't just looking for one specific sound sig.


•I also didn't just ask eke or two people about the ASG 2's(and tried to ask but failed with some of my messages apparently lol) but eke was the person that gave me the confidence to hit that "send payment" button.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGame21x View Post

I absolutely despise this idea. Why should there be a disconnect between objective and subjective criticisms of an earphone? I completely agree that graphs are hardly the be all end all and earphones can sound great to some on a purely subjective level even if they graph "poorly" but on that same token, we can't just disregard objective criticisms and relegate them to another forum.

I feel like I'm walking on eggshells saying this but I think people should be more open to objective (or as objective as we can get) criticisms of products, even if they don't confirm what we may think or align with our subjective perceptions of a particular product.

Sound good to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFC_SL View Post

I think you guys have illustrated my point. As the other member said, it is rather an inability to read other posts as responders are entrenched in their position and seek only to reinforce their view, combining to result in endless pages of non-progressive circular posts.

Assuming my observation has stuck a few home truths I'll stay in the background pending EU distribution going live

(T_T) hmmm
post #2434 of 6782

I agree as well, I'm not getting mid-range. Mid-bass emphasis maybe, but not mid oriented. I mean, i guess it depends on what you're listening to music wise, but i would have figured the mid-bass is what would have jumped to mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

Got then today, these definitely lack subbass. Very midrange oriented, it's like the UM3X in a way, stage monitor sound...

 

Where do you have your bass port?

 

I suppose it also depends on what you're coming from. Comparing to the Atrios, the ASG-2 isn't nearly as sub-bass focused but then again I think the atrios focus on the sub-bass at the cost of pretty much everything else. It'd be interesting to see what Dale's first revision of the ASG-2 does. I'm hoping for a smoother bass extension (less mid-bass impact, more sub-bass attenuation) with the bas port adjustment, and a slightly lowered highs. Although it seems that It's really my stupid ears that have a problem with the highs, as no one here seems to have sibilance/harshness issues.

post #2435 of 6782
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnullify View Post

I agree as well, I'm not getting mid-range. Mid-bass emphasis maybe, but not mid oriented. I mean, i guess it depends on what you're listening to music wise, but i would have figured the mid-bass is what would have jumped to mind.

Where do you have your bass port?

I suppose it also depends on what you're coming from. Comparing to the Atrios, the ASG-2 isn't nearly as sub-bass focused but then again I think the atrios focus on the sub-bass at the cost of pretty much everything else. It'd be interesting to see what Dale's first revision of the ASG-2 does. I'm hoping for a smoother bass extension (less mid-bass impact, more sub-bass attenuation) with the bas port adjustment, and a slightly lowered highs. Although it seems that It's really my stupid ears that have a problem with the highs, as no one here seems to have sibilance/harshness issues.

I did had some major sibilance issued but they were somewhat alleviated with one specific fit.
post #2436 of 6782
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post

Who knows, the problem there as I see it is a lack of healthy skepticism in regard to experimental results, to not even making a note to question either the results or the test subject if the there was anecdotal "evidence" to the contrary.

Edit:
The numbers themselves are fact but they only reflect test setup, conditions, and subjects, and as such are only a mirror, or maybe even a vessel.

But I'm not %100 sure the numbers are fact. I have reasonable trust Rin knows what he is doing and so ask dale for a refund with the understanding that my experience with the sound was not all in my head. Why not just wait for andy to check them for issues first as some pointed out? Sounds reasonable to me as well... What gives?

I asked dale to comment on the measurements expecting he would immediately know if they looked off. When he commented the following(maybe that wasn't him?) I felt a little dodged. I then decided to ask him for a refund.


"Not really... As I have found in over 20 years of audio engineering and testing, slight nuances in the way something is tested will cause vast anomalies or differences to occur. People perceive sound differently from person to person and from ear to ear depending on the seal you get, fit, cables, sound source and at least a hundred other variables also. Everyone has an opinion and that is perfectly fine."

Again pushed for more info here:


If inks reports back that my ASG 2's are fine, and I simply did not like the sound, I think the refund should not be given. Andy gave me an option for a demo pair, I decided to purchase them strait up from my talks with eke. That is an option I had and decided not to use. The finish however should still be repaired.

Nothing wrong with my ASG-2's?... Dale answers my question?... I don't ask for refund.

I wait for Andy to correct my issues with the finish and give them another try. No dice? I put them up for sale at a loss. The ASG 2 continues its world domination.
post #2437 of 6782
OMG I wish I had a PC right now LOL.
post #2438 of 6782
Also, it was pointed out to me I should have added the following to my update incase someone missed it:


Edited by UnityIsPower - 8/4/13 at 11:49am
post #2439 of 6782
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnityIsPower View Post

But I'm not %100 sure the numbers are fact. I have reasonable trust Rin knows what he is doing and so ask dale for a refund with the understanding that my experience with the sound was not all in my head. Why not just wait for andy to check them for issues first as some pointed out? Sounds reasonable to me as well... What gives?

I asked dale to comment on the measurements expecting he would immediately know if they looked off. When he commented the following(maybe that wasn't him?) I felt a little dodged. I then decided to ask him for a refund.


"Not really... As I have found in over 20 years of audio engineering and testing, slight nuances in the way something is tested will cause vast anomalies or differences to occur. People perceive sound differently from person to person and from ear to ear depending on the seal you get, fit, cables, sound source and at least a hundred other variables also. Everyone has an opinion and that is perfectly fine."

Again pushed for more info here:


If inks reports back that my ASG 2's are fine, and I simply did not like the sound, I think the refund should not be given. Andy gave me an option for a demo pair, I decided to purchase them strait up from my talks with eke. That is an option I had and decided not to use. The finish however should still be repaired.

Nothing wrong with my ASG-2's?... Dale answers my question?... I don't ask for refund.

I wait for Andy to correct my issues with the finish and give them another try. No dice? I put them up for sale at a loss. The ASG 2 continues its world domination.

The numbers themselves are absolutely fact.

It's what they represent that's important and is being questioned. They're a function of the way the measurements were taken and the subject, your specific ASG-2. And in that, they are a fact. If the measurements were not performed accurately, then they are a fact based on that. If the ASG-2 they were faulty, then they are a fact based on that. They are a reflection of the circumstances which created them, and in reflecting that, a fact.

I'm not saying anything about what they show.

If they were tested fine, Inks will hear them similarly to how they were graphed. If he doesn't then it's possible the test was off. But he can't tell you if something is wrong with them because he has no point of reference.

Dale just said he didn't want to comment on them is all, possibly because he could not verify them because he didn't have experience with the setup testing them nor how the test was conducted, which might not be comparable to his setup so he can't directly compare. They offered to look at them and you should take them up on that. You get them back and you still don't like them after that, well, that's happened to most of us here =\
Edited by vwinter - 8/4/13 at 12:34pm
post #2440 of 6782
Vwinter, I think you read me wrong. Or I again wrote it wrong... you knows what I'm talking bout.

"And I'm not sure why you think I don't want Andy to have a look at them"

What?

I'm going to address more, hold on, lol:
Edited by UnityIsPower - 8/4/13 at 12:35pm
post #2441 of 6782
More midbass oriented but also mids, again very UM3X like. I feel like this iem lacks detail, but it really makes sense as a stage monitor, no way can this pass as a reference iem or studio monitor, not that it was aim to be so.
post #2442 of 6782
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnityIsPower View Post

Vwinter, I think you read me wrong. Or I again wrote it wrong... you knows what I'm talking bout.

"And I'm not sure why you think I don't want Andy to have a look at them"

What?

I'm going to address more, hold on, lol:

I did read it wrong. I just realized you were answering your own posed question in that post. I already edited that sentence out of mine before I even saw your response.

Do you get what I'm saying about the graphs, ie the numbers, though?
Edited by vwinter - 8/4/13 at 12:39pm
post #2443 of 6782
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post

I did read it wrong. I just realized you were answering your own posed question in that post. I already edited that sentence out of mine before I even saw your response.

Do you get what I'm saying about the graphs, ie the numbers, though?

Yes but it sounds nonsensical because I though you knew what I meant when I was talking about rin possibly making a mistake. You had to know what I ment:

You deleted what I was going to quote... Lol at my life.

Hmm maybe you responded a bit mad cuz you thought I was attacking you?

You know I loves ya to V'man. 😀
Edited by UnityIsPower - 8/4/13 at 12:48pm
post #2444 of 6782
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnityIsPower View Post

Yes but it sounds nonsensical because I though you knew what I meant when I was talking about rin possibly making a mistake. You had to know what I ment:

You deleted what I was going to quote... Lol at my life.

Hmm maybe you responded a bit mad cuz you thought I was attacking you?

Nope on all counts lol.
Was not responding mad.
Didn't think you were attacking me.
Only removed the one line you already mentioned.
Added a couple of words to make the sentences make more sense.

I was just trying to elaborate for you and address one of the points in your post with a possible answer.
Edited by vwinter - 8/4/13 at 12:53pm
post #2445 of 6782
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnityIsPower View Post

I asked dale to comment on the measurements expecting he would immediately know if they looked off. When he commented the following(maybe that wasn't him?) I felt a little dodged. I then decided to ask him for a refund.

"Not really... As I have found in over 20 years of audio engineering and testing, slight nuances in the way something is tested will cause vast anomalies or differences to occur. People perceive sound differently from person to person and from ear to ear depending on the seal you get, fit, cables, sound source and at least a hundred other variables also. Everyone has an opinion and that is perfectly fine."

 

I'd like to know at least 75 of those 100 variables — or maybe I'd like to know all 100 since there seem to be over a hundred of them. 

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