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Bakoon HPA-21 headphone amplifier - Page 6

post #76 of 366
Great looking forward to it smily_headphones1.gif

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post #77 of 366

     Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Roberts View Post

I'm referring to the AT W3000ANV and my description of them is that the sound is" colored" as opposed to being" neutral", although the finish is beautiful. In other words, the HD800 they are not!

 

I’ve been reading some reviews and it appears that my little joke about confusing my TH900s with your ATH-W3000ANV description may be actually closer than I realized, including the “colored” ear cups.  Since your W3000ANVs are highly euphonic as well, as well as colored as you suggest, how do they pair with the HPA-21?

post #78 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post

For what it's worth, I have one of these in house for review on Innerfidelity next month.

popcorn.gif

 

Looking forward to it Rob! But at only 1W into 32 ohms, I question just how well this would be considered a good amp for orthos (especially the HE-6s rolleyes.gif)?


Edited by MacedonianHero - 6/29/13 at 9:35pm
post #79 of 366
Thanks Peter, and of course you are right, not a good choice of the HE-6. Might be enough for LCD-3. And more than enough for the W3000ANV wink.gif
post #80 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post

Thanks Peter, and of course you are right, not a good choice of the HE-6. Might be enough for LCD-3. And more than enough for the W3000ANV wink.gif

 

"T.H.E. Show 2013 will serve as the introduction of a new all-in-one headphone combination from Audeze, Bakoon Electronics and Klutz Design. The new combination will include a pair of Audeze LCD3 planar magnetic headphones, a Bakoon HPA-21 headphone amp and a Klutz CanCans headphone stand and will be available through each manufacturer at the impressive price of $4,995--a significant savings compared to purchasing each component separately.

 

“This new combination offers our customers an opportunity to acquire everything they need to get the most out of their Audeze LCD3s,” said Alexander Rosson, CEO of Audeze."When the teams at Klutz and Bakoon approached us to discuss a potential partnership in a creating a custom package with our LCD3 headphones, we were immediately on board. Incidentally, the LCD3 were used as the reference headphones in the development of the HPA-21, and we’ve been long-time users of Klutz stands, so the partnerships between all three companies was a natural fit. "

 

http://www.audeze.com/about-audeze/news-events/audeze-introduces-new-lcd3-package-bakoon-and-klutz

 

That should end any doubt whether the HPA-21 has excellent synergy with the Audeze's.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacal01 View Post

     Quote:

 

I’ve been reading some reviews and it appears that my little joke about confusing my TH900s with your ATH-W3000ANV description may be actually closer than I realized, including the “colored” ear cups.  Since your W3000ANVs are highly euphonic as well, as well as colored as you suggest, how do they pair with the HPA-21?

 

Alas, don't have an HPA-21 in-house but was an early adopter of the Bakoon Amp 11-R, the 15 W integrated predecessor of the "21" which includes a volume control and headphone output. According to Soo In of Bakoon, the 11-R became so popular as a headphone amp,(internationally,certainly not here on HF) that he decided to introduce the "21" as a headphone only amp at a commensurately lower price point and apparently with less distortion than its older sibling.

 

That being said, I prefer to listen to the W3000ANV paired with the EAR HP4, perhaps because the harmonics of the NOS RCA's add to the richness of the presentation.

post #81 of 366
While I have great respect for Alex Rosson, I completely reject the idea that a Manufacturer Press Release ends any doubt about anything, or somehow "proves" that the products have great synergy; it illustrates nothing other than the designers seem to think they have synergy. That's great, but it doesn't mean everyone will agree.
post #82 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Roberts View Post

 

"T.H.E. Show 2013 will serve as the introduction of a new all-in-one headphone combination from Audeze, Bakoon Electronics and Klutz Design. The new combination will include a pair of Audeze LCD3 planar magnetic headphones, a Bakoon HPA-21 headphone amp and a Klutz CanCans headphone stand and will be available through each manufacturer at the impressive price of $4,995--a significant savings compared to purchasing each component separately.

 

“This new combination offers our customers an opportunity to acquire everything they need to get the most out of their Audeze LCD3s,” said Alexander Rosson, CEO of Audeze."When the teams at Klutz and Bakoon approached us to discuss a potential partnership in a creating a custom package with our LCD3 headphones, we were immediately on board. Incidentally, the LCD3 were used as the reference headphones in the development of the HPA-21, and we’ve been long-time users of Klutz stands, so the partnerships between all three companies was a natural fit. "

 

http://www.audeze.com/about-audeze/news-events/audeze-introduces-new-lcd3-package-bakoon-and-klutz

 

That should end any doubt whether the HPA-21 has excellent synergy with the Audeze's.

 

 

Alas, don't have an HPA-21 in-house but was an early adopter of the Bakoon Amp 11-R, the 15 W integrated predecessor of the "21" which includes a volume control and headphone output. According to Soo In of Bakoon, the 11-R became so popular as a headphone amp,(internationally,certainly not here on HF) that he decided to introduce the "21" as a headphone only amp at a commensurately lower price point and apparently with less distortion than its older sibling.

 

That being said, I prefer to listen to the W3000ANV paired with the EAR HP4, perhaps because the harmonics of the NOS RCA's add to the richness of the presentation.

 

Sorry, here's what ends all doubt for me:

 

Not even 1 Watt into the LCD-3s. Case closed. Far, far from ideal. Here's what my documentation from my LCD-3s says: "At least 2 W". So that's on the very bottom end when the verbiage is "at least". Audeze also did this with the RWA amp before. Business ventures are that...to help sell both headphones and amps.

 

Can it sound "nice"? Sure, my GS-1 sounded very good with the LCD-3s and it too offerred about the same power levels (1W into 32 ohms). But the GS-X MKII smokes it (and it puts like 5-6W into 60 ohms, not 0.75W wink.gif) and for $3k for this T-like battery amp....sorry, but no thanks!


Edited by MacedonianHero - 6/30/13 at 8:39am
post #83 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funklezen View Post

 

Hi Skylab, will you compare it to your Leben, would be very interesting :)

 

FWIW, I have compared the listening experience through the LCD-3 paired with the Leben CS600 rolled with NOS RCA and Sylvania black plates and the Bakoon Amp 11-R, the older, integrated sibling of the HPA-21, which employs the same SATRI circuit.

 

Whenever I break out the Audezes for a listening session, I warm up the Bakoon.

 

Skylab loves his Leben, ( as I do as well) and his mileage might vary although I tend to doubt it.  Will be interesting to read his much more thorough review.

post #84 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

 

Sorry, here's what ends all doubt for me:

 

Not even 1 Watt into the LCD-3s. Case closed. Far, far from ideal. Here's what my documentation from my LCD-3s says: "At least 2 W". So that's on the very bottom end when the verbiage is "at least". Audeze also did this with the RWA amp before. Business ventures are that...to help sell both headphones and amps.

 

Can it sound "nice"? Sure, my GS-1 sounded very good with the LCD-3s and it too offerred about the same power levels (1W into 32 ohms). But the GS-X MKII smokes it (and it puts like 5-6W into 60 ohms, not 0.75W wink.gif) and for $3k for this T-like battery amp....sorry, but no thanks!

 

Why not listen to the pairing before "rejecting" what the CEO of Audeze states. That would seem to be the more prudent attitude to take. You would then find that the SATRI circuit is unique. I would further state that I do not listen at the Ray Samuels decibel level and find that the AMP 11-R has more than enough juice to handle the higher power requirements of musical transients.

 

Furthermore, I am making the assumption that Alex is aware of what is stated in the documentation of the LCD-3. Why would he purposely enter into a partnership with an amp manufacturer that does not do the headphone justice? You think that Dr. Alex Cavalli or any other domestic headphone amp manufacturer including Justin over at Head Amp would not be interested in the same relationship that Audeze has with Bakoon?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post

While I have great respect for Alex Rosson, I completely reject the idea that a Manufacturer Press Release ends any doubt about anything, or somehow "proves" that the products have great synergy; it illustrates nothing other than the designers seem to think they have synergy. That's great, but it doesn't mean everyone will agree.

 

Why not listen to the amp before "rejecting" what the CEO of Audeze states. That would seem to be the more prudent attitude to take. Presently, you will find that the SATRI circuit is unique.

 

BTW, not everybody seems to agree on anything on this forum.

post #85 of 366
I'm not rejecting at all the notion that there MIGHT be good synergy. There may indeed be! I was only rejecting the notion that a Press Release "proves" that there is wink.gif
post #86 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Roberts View Post

Why not listen to the pairing before "rejecting" what the CEO of Audeze states. That would seem to be the more prudent attitude to take. You would then find that the SATRI circuit is unique. I would further state that I do not listen at the Ray Samuels decibel level and find that the AMP 11-R has more than enough juice to handle the higher power requirements of musical transients.

Furthermore, I am making the assumption that Alex is aware of what is stated in the documentation of the LCD-3. Why would he purposely enter into a partnership with an amp manufacturer that does not do the headphone justice? You think that Dr. Alex Cavalli or any other domestic headphone amp manufacturer including Justin over at Head Amp would not be interested in the same relationship that Audeze has with Bakoon?


Why not listen to the amp before "rejecting" what the CEO of Audeze states. That would seem to be the more prudent attitude to take. Presently, you will find that the SATRI circuit is unique.

BTW, not everybody seems to agree on anything on this forum.

Based on the power numbers alone, I'm not holding out much hope! I've tried many spectacular low power amps with orthos and they've ALWAYS been bested by cheaper more powerful amps. Heck, even the CEO of Audeze documented 2 W MINIMUM!

Like Rob states, seems very well matched for the highly efficient / low impedance W3000s. wink.gif
post #87 of 366
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

Heck, even the CEO of Audeze documented 2 W MINIMUM!
 

 

That was before HPA-21... wink_face.gif

 

Quote from LCD-3 product page:
  • Impedance:  45 Ohms, purely resistive
  • Efficiency:  91 dB/1 mW
  • Maximum power handling:  15 W (for 200 ms)
  • Optimal power requirement:  1-4 W

 

LCD-3 only needs 251.2 mW to produce 115 dB peak SPL. If you really would pump 2 W into LCD-3 you would get 124 dB. It’s about quality, not quantity. Maybe some amps only can manage a linear control of the diaphragms (movement / input V = constant) in their very lowest power range, hence they need a big headroom. Remember that HPA-21 is a current driving amp. If HPA-21 manages to get a linear control of the diaphragms up to 0.3 W or more for LCD-3 it’s enough. This is true for any amp and technology, of course. I’ll ask Soo In about the power rating.

post #88 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanDude View Post

 

That was before HPA-21... wink_face.gif

 

 

LCD-3 only needs 251.2 mW to produce 115 dB peak SPL. If you really would pump 2 W into LCD-3 you would get 124 dB. It’s about quality, not quantity. Maybe some amps only can manage a linear control of the diaphragms (movement / input V = constant) in their very lowest power range, hence they need a big headroom. Remember that HPA-21 is a current driving amp. If HPA-21 manages to get a linear control of the diaphragms up to 0.3 W or more for LCD-3 it’s enough. This is true for any amp and technology, of course. I’ll ask Soo In about the power rating.

 

Did you read my post here:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

 

Sorry, here's what ends all doubt for me:

 

Not even 1 Watt into the LCD-3s. Case closed. Far, far from ideal. Here's what my documentation from my LCD-3s says: "At least 2 W". So that's on the very bottom end when the verbiage is "at least". Audeze also did this with the RWA amp before. Business ventures are that...to help sell both headphones and amps.

 

Can it sound "nice"? Sure, my GS-1 sounded very good with the LCD-3s and it too offerred about the same power levels (1W into 32 ohms). But the GS-X MKII smokes it (and it puts like 5-6W into 60 ohms, not 0.75W wink.gif) and for $3k for this T-like battery amp....sorry, but no thanks!

 

 

So the press release can say all it wants to (as Rob smartly pointed out), my experiences have shown orthos need moar power to open up. No way in a million years would I ever consider using a 0.75W amp with the HE-6s (let alone the LCD-3s). 


Edited by MacedonianHero - 6/30/13 at 7:28pm
post #89 of 366

How hot does it run?  Can't touch hot?  Hot but you can keep your hand on it?  Warm?  Cool?

post #90 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post

How hot does it run?  Can't touch hot?  Hot but you can keep your hand on it?  Warm?  Cool?

Or is there a resistor soldered to the chassis to make it hotter ala Rudistor? tongue.gif

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