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Bakoon HPA-21 headphone amplifier - Page 4

post #46 of 552
Originally Posted by En_R View Post


What? Holding a reviewer accountable is a distraction? I also hope by "knowledgeable pros" that you don't mean Srajan because.. How many products has 6moons actually put down? Also when does having good reviews make a product good? Because it's the FOTM?

I alluded to the Leben to make an example- and no, being in the "upper echelon" does not make it "one of the best". But these questions are relevant to Candude, and you're right. You are not Candude.

You just scared that the hpa-21 might actually be THAT good and that your wallet is going to suffer. biggrin.gif
But seriously though...be more polite. rolleyes.gif

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post #47 of 552

Just to add a bit more meat to my original post re: impedance




About 1/2 way down:



However, the SATRI Circuit is completely opposite that the input impedance input of the SATRI Circuit is close to 0 Ohms, and the output impedance is above 100 M Ohms. With such behavior, the SATRI Circuit strictly works with the current signals of the circuit.


^ This is what I was talking about. I will ask Bakoon Products also and will let you guys know what they have to say.

post #48 of 552
Originally Posted by Funklezen View Post

Hi Guys, can you tell how long it takes to recharge, and is there a voltage switch, or is there different versions for The States and Europe? smily_headphones1.gif


I looked at the battery charger last night and it appears to be universal.  Charger legend lists input voltage as 100 - 240 Vac 0.5 A and output voltage as 16.8 Vdc 1 A.   The wall outlet plug may be variable, however, depending on shipping destination.  

Edited by jacal01 - 6/25/13 at 7:04am
post #49 of 552
Originally Posted by En_R View Post


What? Holding a reviewer accountable is a distraction? I also hope by "knowledgeable pros" that you don't mean Srajan because.. How many products has 6moons actually put down? Also when does having good reviews make a product good? Because it's the FOTM?


I alluded to the Leben to make an example- and no, being in the "upper echelon" does not make it "one of the best". But these questions are relevant to Candude, and you're right. You are not Candude.


Here's an easy exercise you can do at home:


1.   Quantify the number of headphone amplifiers you feel should constitute a “one of the best” grouping.  1?  3?  5?  10?

2.   List the amplifiers you think would be in this group, preferably by ranking.

3.   Justify why you think each of the amplifiers you’ve listed deserves its “one of the best” classification.

4.   List the amplifiers from your “one of the best” group that you personally own or have extensively reviewed.

5.   Buy a Bakoon HPA-21, compare its performance to your “one of the best” amplifiers and get back to us, hopefully with a comprehensive and objective review, so that we can lay to rest Candude’s qualitative assertion one way or the other.

post #50 of 552

I think En_R's point was simply that it was an irresponsible or at least a sensationalist assertion on the part of the OP, made worse by being in the thread title.  I would add that this is summit-fi and there are a whole lot of amps people are touting as "the best" or (more politically correct) "among the best."  Usually when people make these claims, they are asked to qualify them.  En_R is not saying it is not one of the best amps which makes the list request immaterial.  I hate to sound all sound science-y, but burden of proof is on the one making the claim, not one saying no claim should be made either way.


It's also just a weird thing to include in a thread title here on Summit-Fi - take a look at the main page, there are 50-some threads on the first page alone and the largest claim I see being made is that the Dark Star is fully balanced - one better be sure before including such a hype-y phrase in the thread title.

post #51 of 552

I just wonder how a particular product would go about laying claim to "one of the best".  Acclamation?  Exhaustive A-B testing?  Anointment by a recognized Authority?  With so much popularity driven opinion and lemming type behavior I've seen demonstrated around this website, I think that the distinction of any line of demarcation being bandied about has already been blurred at least to some degree.   


It is however also accepted practice in the scientific community to assert a claim and pose a working hypothesis for the community to set about proving or disproving.  Perhaps Candude's Great Sin is that he didn't include a question mark at the end.  And I must admit that so far I haven't seen any evidence presented to contradict his claim.  That's why I think it'd make such a great homework assignment for En_R, since he has already demonstrated a remarkable absence of hyperbolic tendency. 

post #52 of 552

Out of the three options just listed, the second option would be fine to make a claim, though it really needn't be exhaustive, just some experience with other top amps.  Substantiating the claim and giving it more gravitas and applicability is a completely different matter and may involve #1 and #3 (plus a #4 and #5 not listed) to varying degrees, but no one would be able to really give you a hard time if you heard many of the top amps out there in decent settings and thought X amp ranked among them.  

post #53 of 552

Thus I find myself in the somewhat dubious position of defending Candude's thread title.  I happen to be in total agreement with it; however it was disingenuous of him to lay such claim to a new product without some supporting substantive comparisons of suitable candidates.


But that's the problem with this headphone amp.  Reviews and buyer appraisals are few and far in between, and nothing seems to get the momentum going so that you can get some degree of initial user acclamation.  So then it just withers away with dismissals of uninformed buyer impressions and unsubstantiated hype.  


And more's the pity, because this amplifier has really become my session piece over all my other amplifier/signal train configurations for pure entertainment.  It's discriminating enough to consistently showcase deficiencies in your other gear in A-B comparisons, and to me, that's the defining quality of the amp, to be of sufficient quality to not be the weak link in your audio system, regardless.  What price do you attach to that?  Where is the crossover point between good and best?

post #54 of 552

You can defend the title, but not who made it.  If you were the OP this would be an entirely different discussion.


Between Srajan's lavish praise and the new international Bakoon partnership with Audeze, momentum would build even if this was a cmoy in a fancy chassis.  A couple members will get theirs and bring them to meets, and their mettle can be more widely tested there.  Nothing is being dismissed at this point, people just tend to have a wait-and-see attitude when it comes to plunking down.  The circular "won't buy until impressions and no impressions until bought" can be easily sidestepped with loaner tours and meets.  That's what happens with gear at this price point in this hobby.


For the record I have nothing for or against Bakoon.  Their current drive looks interesting for a headphone amplifier and I'd love to hear one if it ever comes to a meet.  

post #55 of 552

Well, maybe I'll move myself to make a regional with it this year.  I'm rather proud of my QuteHD/HPA-21/TH900 configuration, and I'll bet I can blow at least one pair of socks off with it.  Newbies... Pfftt.  wink.gif

post #56 of 552

I think they do a lot of meets in Dallas and Austin.  Texas isn't that big so just drive down, no?

post #57 of 552

Ahahahahahah...  Reminds me of the old hobo limerick that allegedly was scratched inside a box car: "The sun has ris; the sun has set.  And here I is, in Texas yet."


But yeah, I've already missed the Austin and the first Dallas ones this year, one being work related, the other being a family reunion.  There's still the 2nd Dallas meet (Sept/Oct) to go this year, but honestly I'm starting to lose my enthusiasm. 


I think I know you, BTW.  We've traded a few emails, I believe.  Never did find the perfect offset screwdriver, but I did have an interesting and somewhat eye opening foray into the world of surgical tools...   

post #58 of 552
Thread Starter 

I apologize if I have offended anyone by including the statement "one of the best" in the thread title. I have now removed it.


This thread’s title was actually an emotional reaction on the "Will it achieve High End status ?" thread where I felt some negativity. I created this thread and wanted to start out with a positive attitude instead. Hence "one of the best" in the title, but of course I should at least have added a question mark. It was never my intention to give an objective statement as substantiated by years of empirical studies of all available headphone amps in the world. I was just happy to own HPA-21!


The goal with the review was and is only to compare HPA-21 with BHA-1 (and the amp in Hilo), nothing else. "A review is only good if you have experience with gear and make relative comparisons". I agree to that. IMO I did relative comparisons with BHA-1. The problem must be my experience then.


I am more of a "studiophile" guy than an "audiophile" guy, I do not like coloration of any kind. I want "wire with gain". Hence I have not listened to that many tube amps or other amps that I from reading reviews etc. understand have a colored sound. The most expensive tube amp I have listened to is the Atma-Sphere MP-1 preamp driving HD800 ("romantic" sound) and HE400 (terrible). But that is a tube preamp and not a dedicated headphone amp, of course. I own EAR909, a no compromise Swedish headphone amp in the same price range (if that is important) as BHA-1 (in Sweden), but I’m going to sell it since BHA-1 is better IMO. So there is no need to compare HPA-21 with EAR909. I have also listened to other cheap amps like V200, LBC, 160D, HDVD800, Phonitor etc. Even if these amps are not "high-end" in your world you learn from listening to various equipment. You learn from comparing DACs like DA11, Hilo and Zodiac. You learn from comparing a veiled and a non-veiled LCD-3. You learn from comparing headphone cables (that I hopefully will be able to do this weekend!). You learn from comparing studio monitors. You really learn from listening to the instruments you play and to your own (recorded) voice through headphones.


BTW BHA-1 is approx. ½ of the Bakoon’s price in Sweden.


Now let’s forget about that old thread title and discuss HPA-21 instead! It seems that some people think that it is one of the best… biggrin.gif

post #59 of 552
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by Funklezen View Post

Hi Guys, can you tell how long it takes to recharge and is there a woltage switch or is there differentieret versions for The Staten and Europe smily_headphones1.gif


This is already answered by jacal01, but anyway…


From the orange Owner's Manual:

Battery Operate Time: Up to six and a half hours

Battery Recharge Time:  4 hours (80% capacity) / 6 hours (full capacity)


Battery recharger:

INPUT : 100-240 V~, 50-60 Hz, 0.5 A

OUTPUT : +18.8 V DC, 1.0 A


IEC C7 connector for the AC cable.


I’m a "leave it on at all times" guy but I still have not had so many mishaps forgetting to turn off HPA-21.

post #60 of 552
For what it's worth, I have one of these in house for review on Innerfidelity next month.
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