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Bakoon HPA-21 headphone amplifier - Page 8

post #106 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

Bingo....0.75W of a Class AB amp into 50 ohms. Been there, done that with the LCD-3s and HE-6s...the results were FAR from spectacular. confused.gif

 

Throw in case-work that screams mid-fi. And all for $3K, I'm amazed how people are so eager to throw away their hard earned money?

 

Have you heard this amp? An amp that "screams" mid-fi casework? Why would you be amazed at your age at anything people do?


Edited by Dr. Roberts - 7/2/13 at 6:47am

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post #107 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Roberts View Post

 

Have you heard this amp? An amp that "screams" mid-fi casework? Why would you be amazed at your age at anything people do?

I haven't, (I would like to), but let's review the specs:

 

Class AB amp that barely puts out 0.75W into 50 ohms. Thus a horrible choice for orthos and likely a poor choice high impedance headphones like the HD800s or T1s. Best suited for low impedance dynamic headphones like Grados or Audio Technicas. Case work that is in line with $400-600 amps. (And I've owned a lot of amps through the years, feel free to check my profile wink.gif....I've been around the block a few times).

 

And all for the ridiculously low, low price of $3000. confused.gif

post #108 of 366

Casework can be misleading on interweb shots.  I wouldn't make that much of a leap about it without seeing it in person.

post #109 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio_head View Post

Casework can be misleading on interweb shots.  I wouldn't make that much of a leap about it without seeing it in person.

I've seen plenty. smile.gif

 

The specs alone spoke volumes.


Edited by MacedonianHero - 7/2/13 at 9:43am
post #110 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post

So nearly no class A bias given it's a sealed case with nearly no free space inside.  Sigh.

 

From the Srajan review per Soo In Chae, "During our HPA-21 prototyping we already achieved up to 7 hours of playtime despite its rich class A bias."

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

Bingo....0.75W of a Class AB amp into 50 ohms. Been there, done that with the LCD-3s and HE-6s...the results were FAR from spectacular. confused.gif

 

Throw in case-work that screams mid-fi. And all for $3K, I'm amazed how people are so eager to throw away their hard earned money?

 

Just curious as to where you got that spec, considering there's none posted on the Bakoon website.  And then this comment in spite of all the HPA-21 reviews posted to the contrary with the LCD orthos, including mine. confused.gif

 

Don't see why you're so amazed, considering that according to your profile, you yourself have done it multiple times, most certainly in the aggregate.

 

So much definitive judgement, so little auditing.


Edited by jacal01 - 7/2/13 at 2:19pm
post #111 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacal01 View Post

 

From the Srajan review per Soo In Chae, "During our HPA-21 prototyping we already achieved up to 7 hours of playtime despite its rich class A bias."

 

 

Just curious as to where you got that spec, considering there's none posted on the Bakoon website.  And then this comment in spite of all the HPA-21 reviews posted to the contrary with the LCD orthos, including mine. confused.gif

 

Don't see why you're so amazed, considering that according to your profile, you yourself have done it multiple times, most certainly in the aggregate.

 

So much definitive judgement, so little auditing.

 

It's right there on their website if you chose to take the time:

 

Maximum Power Output

1 watt (32 Ω, 1 kHz)

 

(That would be like 0.75W into 50/60 ohms.)

 

http://www.bakoonproducts.com/product/hpa-21/

 

Might I ask what truly great amps you've heard/owned? I never did say that this amp with the LCD-2/HD800s sounded poor. You might want to re-read all of my posts. I stated for such a low power Class AB amp with a T-Amp battery and mid-fi case work, $3000 is highway robbery IMO as it can really only ideally drive low impedance / efficient dynamic headphones like Grados or Audio Technicas). 

 

I'm sure it can sound "nice" with some headphones, but unless one has had a chance to try some of the other headphone amps in this range, reviews of the pairing are very limiting to a reader. 


Edited by MacedonianHero - 7/2/13 at 2:36pm
post #112 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacal01 View Post

From the Srajan review per Soo In Chae, "During our HPA-21 prototyping we already achieved up to 7 hours of playtime despite its rich class A bias."

 

Rich isn't a number.  In other news according to Cavalli, 500mW of 5000mW total output is mostly class A blink.gif

 

I find it odd that we're totally ignoring that the battery has a life of 3 years with modest use and is glued to the PCB.  Or does it slide around inside?  Guessing glue since they aren't falling in this shot...

post #113 of 366

@ Solude:  Neither is "nearly no".

 

@ MacedonianHero:  Huh.  I must have got cul-de-saced at the bakoonproducts shop webstore.

 

Lessee... Srajan trumpeted its performance with LCD-2s.  Candude was in "heaven" with his LCD-3s.  Dr. Roberts preferred the Bakoon 11-R over his Leben CS600 with LCD-3s.  Wojciech Pacuła raved about the HPA-21 performance with HD800s.

 

"...FAR from spectacular" is your pronouncement, having not heard it.  All other of us uninformed masses relegated to not knowing the difference from "nice", comparatively, absolutely or otherwise.  I wanna be Mikey.

 

EDIT:  Where would you put the EAR HP4 in this pantheon of headphone amps in this range?  The Liquid Fire?  Want to take a shot at Alex?


Edited by jacal01 - 7/2/13 at 4:16pm
post #114 of 366
Thread Starter 

Concerning the batteries...

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanDude View Post
 

Q: One thing bothers me a bit with the HPA-21, the battery. Although I understand the advantages of using a battery I'm still concerned about the longevity/life-time of the battery. A $3000 rendered more or less useless after a couple of years usage isn't very appealing. Also, is it possible to change the battery without too much hassle (i.e. sending it to S. Korea.)?

 

A: We are using one of the best and most reliable batteries from Samsung SDI, they guarantee 500 recharge cycles for the battery to reach at is 80% lifetime capacity. So after about 3500 hours, its running time will drop to around 5 hours, but is still usable. (also consider that one can use more than 3 years with 3 hours/day usage)

 

The two battery packs inside the HPA-21 are easily replaceable and will cost approx. EUR 125 + VAT and labour to replace – if ever needed.

 

Maybe some kind of adhesive (that can stand the heat)? Plus a connector per battery.

 

post #115 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacal01 View Post

@ Solude:  Neither is "nearly no".

 

@ MacedonianHero:  Huh.  I must have got cul-de-saced at the bakoonproducts shop webstore.

 

Lessee... Srajan trumpeted its performance with LCD-2s.  Candude was in "heaven" with his LCD-3s.  Dr. Roberts preferred the Bakoon 11-R over his Leben CS600 with LCD-3s.  Wojciech Pacuła raved about the HPA-21 performance with HD800s.

 

"...FAR from spectacular" is your pronouncement, having not heard it.  All other of us uninformed masses relegated to not knowing the difference from "nice", comparatively, absolutely or otherwise.  I wanna be Mikey.

 

EDIT:  Where would you put the EAR HP4 in this pantheon of headphone amps in this range?  The Liquid Fire?  Want to take a shot at Alex?

Ha! Too funny.  I looked at your profile earlier and said to myself, "he's got an ulterior motive and at some point he's going to bring the LF into this". So, thanks for that!

post #116 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacal01 View Post

@ Solude:  Neither is "nearly no".

 

@ MacedonianHero:  Huh.  I must have got cul-de-saced at the bakoonproducts shop webstore.

 

Lessee... Srajan trumpeted its performance with LCD-2s.  Candude was in "heaven" with his LCD-3s.  Dr. Roberts preferred the Bakoon 11-R over his Leben CS600 with LCD-3s.  Wojciech Pacuła raved about the HPA-21 performance with HD800s.

 

"...FAR from spectacular" is your pronouncement, having not heard it.  All other of us uninformed masses relegated to not knowing the difference from "nice", comparatively, absolutely or otherwise.  I wanna be Mikey.

 

EDIT:  Where would you put the EAR HP4 in this pantheon of headphone amps in this range?  The Liquid Fire?  Want to take a shot at Alex?

I used to own the LF (and used it with a quad of Siemens E88CCs) and it was not in the same league as say a well built B22 (3 or 4 channel) or the GS-X MKII; though it cost more money blink.gif.  With regards to the Leben, I've heard very conflicting reports with it, but I haven't heard the CS600...though the case work does look like how an expensive headphone amp should. With regards to Candude being in heaven with the LCD-3s. I wonder if he's heard them on say a B22, Mjolinir, Dynahi, GS-X MKII, etc.... to make such statements? Maybe he would...but my experiences have repeatedly shown me that under-powering orthos (ESPECIALLY THE HE-6s and to a lesser extent the LCD-3s) only yields average results at BEST. 

 

That's not to say that someone won't like what they hear, but to justify the price tag, I expect the gear in question to sound AMAZING next to the competition in this price range. I do hope to hear one sooner than later....we shall see.


Edited by MacedonianHero - 7/2/13 at 5:29pm
post #117 of 366
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

With regards to Candude being in heaven with the LCD-3s. I wonder if he's heard them on say a B22, Mjolinir, Dynahi, GS-X MKII, etc.... to make such statements? Maybe he would...but my experiences have repeatedly shown me that under-powering orthos (ESPECIALLY THE HE-6s and to a lesser extent the LCD-3s) only yields average results at BEST. 

 

 

I'm in heaven now, listening to HPA-21... wink.gif

Nope, I haven't listened to any of these amps. I hope you're in heaven with your GS-X MKII, even though you haven't tried HPA-21 yet. biggrin.gif

You don't need to listen to all high-end amps to be in heaven with one. (And you will say "how do you know it's a high-end amp if you haven't listened to any of these mighty head-fi approved high-end amps...) I normally want to try anything I buy at home first, and I cannot do that with any of these amps. You can only trust your own ears. I took a chance on BHA-1, and it turned out OK. But for me HPA-21 is definitely worth the extra asking price, +85% or so compared to BHA-1.

 

If you compare these amps with BHA-1, is it like comparing LCD-3 with LCD-2, or are they even better (more heaven) or are they closer to BHA-1 (less heaven), relatively speaking?

Wait, Mjolnir couldn't be a high-end amp since head-fiers compare it to BHA-1 and many (most?) prefer BHA-1 with LCD-3 if I remember correctly. Or does BHA-1 also count as a high-end amp? blink.gif biggrin.gif

post #118 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanDude View Post

 

I'm in heaven now, listening to HPA-21... wink.gif

Nope, I haven't listened to any of these amps. I hope you're in heaven with your GS-X MKII, even though you haven't tried HPA-21 yet. biggrin.gif

You don't need to listen to all high-end amps to be in heaven with one. (And you will say "how do you know it's a high-end amp if you haven't listened to any of these mighty head-fi approved high-end amps...) I normally want to try anything I buy at home first, and I cannot do that with any of these amps. You can only trust your own ears. I took a chance on BHA-1, and it turned out OK. But for me HPA-21 is definitely worth the extra asking price, +85% or so compared to BHA-1.

 

If you compare these amps with BHA-1, is it like comparing LCD-3 with LCD-2, or are they even better (more heaven) or are they closer to BHA-1 (less heaven), relatively speaking?

Wait, Mjolnir couldn't be a high-end amp since head-fiers compare it to BHA-1 and many (most?) prefer BHA-1 with LCD-3 if I remember correctly. Or does BHA-1 also count as a high-end amp? blink.gif biggrin.gif

 

Hard to say what hi-end is WITHOUT any reference points. That is my entire argument. biggrin.gif  

 

The BHA-1 is Bryston's top flight amp...though I'm not a fan of it either. But let's also not forget that it comes in at 1/3rd the cost of the HPA-21. confused.gif Sorry as mentioned, I expect so much more for my hard earned money. If this amp were adequately priced at say $500, I'd be less hard on it. But for $3k, I simply expect more.

 

I am glad you're enjoying your new amp...but I'd like to recommend you get out to a local meet and listen to other amps in the same range...you might be surprised.


Edited by MacedonianHero - 7/2/13 at 6:51pm
post #119 of 366
Thread Starter 

$1,395.00 > $2,995.00 / 3... or do you have extra import taxes for HPA-21?

In Sweden HPA-21 is approx. 185% of the price for BHA-1.

post #120 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

If this amp were adequately priced at say $500, I'd be less hard on it.

 

Ouch.  That's a little harsh.  Given the low volume I'd think the $1-1.5K range would be inline.  Puts it up there with the BHA-1, Soloist, Peak, B22, GS-1 range.  Like you say $3K puts it in GS-X, EC 2A3 range which is tough competition.

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