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Stax Sigma - how many owners are left out there? - Page 4

Poll Results: What's your Sigma model?

This is a multiple choice poll
  • 56% (9)
    Normal Bias 6 Pin
  • 56% (9)
    Pro Bias 5 Pin
  • 18% (3)
    404 Modded Pro Bias with original drivers replaced by Lambda's
16 Total Votes  
post #46 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjinh View Post

 

 

In §7 of his post John mentions his extremely rare SRM-Monitor (which is like an SRM-1 plus a diffuse field equaliser).

 

 

 

I think these are used for  Lambdas.  I don't think their tonal characteristics would help a Sigma.

 

"5. Associated equipment needed.

I have found the Stax SRD-7 Pro, SRD-7 Mk 2, or SRD-7 Spritzer will do an admirable job of driving these very power hungry monsters, provided a good power amp is pushing them. Here, I use the Studer A68 power amp fed by an Apogee Mini-DAC and a Studer D730 CD player."

post #47 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by edstrelow View Post

I think these are used for  Lambdas.  I don't think their tonal characteristics would help a Sigma.

 

"5. Associated equipment needed.

I have found the Stax SRD-7 Pro, SRD-7 Mk 2, or SRD-7 Spritzer will do an admirable job of driving these very power hungry monsters, provided a good power amp is pushing them. Here, I use the Studer A68 power amp fed by an Apogee Mini-DAC and a Studer D730 CD player."

They are designed for Lambda Professionals if you use the Diffuse Equalisation switch, but without that on, I use them for the Sigma high bias.


Edited by John Buchanan - 7/1/13 at 5:47pm
post #48 of 110

Edstrelow, your view on headphone Imaging differs from my point of view.

You say that both ears hearing a single speakers is an artifact, but it's false. Both microphones will hear one side as well. Two Speakers reproduce the work of two microphones.

At its creation, Stereophony wasn't meant to be only 2 speakers reproduction. Only 2 way is the cause of economics, vinyl, price, consumers ability to pay for the gear.

Headphones have no Imaging, I mean a soundstage, a scene in front of you that recreates the holographic space that were created or reproduced during the mix.

Nowadays you have Meridian that is making Trifield which walks over any two speakers configurations. YMMV.

post #49 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by telecaster View Post

Edstrelow, your view on headphone Imaging differs from my point of view.

You say that both ears hearing a single speakers is an artifact, but it's false. Both microphones will hear one side as well. Two Speakers reproduce the work of two microphones.

At its creation, Stereophony wasn't meant to be only 2 speakers reproduction. Only 2 way is the cause of economics, vinyl, price, consumers ability to pay for the gear.

Headphones have no Imaging, I mean a soundstage, a scene in front of you that recreates the holographic space that were created or reproduced during the mix.

Nowadays you have Meridian that is making Trifield which walks over any two speakers configurations. YMMV.

 

 

Imagine a microphone recording a single instrument some distance ahead and slightly off to one side of center.

 

Each microphone will pick up the sound of that instrument (but each mic will have a different  time of arrival and  a difference in volume such that the mic closest to the instrument will get the sound first and have a louder signal.)  The more distant mic will get the sound milliseconds later and at a lower volume. These time and amplitude differences are the main sources of directional information.

 

The ears operate essentially the same way.

 

Now play back the recorded sound on headphones.  Each ear will only hear what one mic records.

 

However play back with speakers sitting midway between the speakers.  Each ear now hears both mics.  This is where the problem arises .The left ear hears the left mic and speaker first because that speaker is closest.  It also hears the right mic and speaker with a slight time delay due to the extra time needed to go the extra distance accross the head.   Vice versa with the right speaker.

 

I think the confusion on this point comes from an almost unconscious assumption that there is no overlap in the signals going into the left and right microphones. But you yourself note this happens.

 

If for example the left channel only carried the information for one instrument and the right channle for another instrument, then this phantom channel problem would not exist  for speaker listening.   Speaker and headphone listening would be same in this regard.   In effect the loudspeaker would be acting more like an instrument, giving a pure rendition of that instrument.   But it is rarely the case that one instrument  or voice is recorded or mixed only going to one side although nw and again none hears a signal way off to the side which may be close to this.

 

Adding more channels, unless they are truly discreet just compounds the problem.

 

Fortunately, some stereo still is heard with conventional speakers.  It;s just not as accurate as in the original soundfield because of the  conflicting information.  With my Polk speakers, I can disconnect the speakers that generate the correction signals and get  ergular stero effect. Switch in the correction speakers and the image become more precisely localized and with more air between the instruments.

 

Speaker listening is a different acoustic experience than headphones. With respect to localization, it is not as much like being in the original sound field as headphones. However I will grant that because the speakers are off the head, they do have an advantage in not sounding constrained in your skull as you tend to get with headphones. The Sigmas are not off the head but their drivers are forward of the ears in a way that few other headphones are and give at least some of a speaker sound for that reason.

post #50 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by edstrelow View Post

However play back with speakers sitting midway between the speakers.  Each ear now hears both mics.  This is where the problem arises .The left ear hears the left mic and speaker first because that speaker is closest.  It also hears the right mic and speaker with a slight time delay due to the extra time needed to go the extra distance accross the head.   Vice versa with the right speaker.

 

I think the confusion on this point comes from an almost unconscious assumption that there is no overlap in the signals going into the left and right microphones. But you yourself note this happens.

 

If for example the left channel only carried the information for one instrument and the right channle for another instrument, then this phantom channel problem would not exist  for speaker listening.   Speaker and headphone listening would be same in this regard.   In effect the loudspeaker would be acting more like an instrument, giving a pure rendition of that instrument.   But it is rarely the case that one instrument  or voice is recorded or mixed only going to one side although nw and again none hears a signal way off to the side which may be close to this.

 

Adding more channels, unless they are truly discreet just compounds the problem.

 

 

Please don't get me wrong, I really try to read you post and really concentrate reading it all but I fail to understand your point!

 

The fact that both ears individually hear both speakers is exactly the reason why the brain can reconstructs the work of two stereo mics. The phantom problem you describe maybe have a scientific name? Please could you lead to to some research on the field, because I am truly don't understand your point of view ^^

 

The problem with headphone si the lack of HRTF, it's a well known phenomenom. Dolby headphone is so poor at producing Imaging is due to lack of correct HRTF for each individual morphology.

 

Smyth realizer is so good at doing that because it's modelled after your own face and torso. And it's looks like a perfect way of having a home cinema in your ear, so not only for studio engineers.

post #51 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by telecaster View Post

Please don't get me wrong, I really try to read you post and really concentrate reading it all but I fail to understand your point!

 

The fact that both ears individually hear both speakers is exactly the reason why the brain can reconstructs the work of two stereo mics. The phantom problem you describe maybe have a scientific name? Please could you lead to to some research on the field, because I am truly don't understand your point of view ^^

 

The problem with headphone si the lack of HRTF, it's a well known phenomenom. Dolby headphone is so poor at producing Imaging is due to lack of correct HRTF for each individual morphology.

 

Smyth realizer is so good at doing that because it's modelled after your own face and torso. And it's looks like a perfect way of having a home cinema in your ear, so not only for studio engineers.

Just think about the difference between headphone and speaker listening. With speakers each ear hears the left and right channels of sound. With headphones each ear gets only one channel. 

 

The HTRF is not the key factor in understanding stereo. It probably contributes to a sense of externalization but time and amplitude differences at the ear are the primary sources of left/right localization. In fact in my understanding only amplitude matters for normal commercial recordings because unless your record with a dummy head and play back with headphones, the time differences are generally screwed up, i.e. not what you would hear if you were there in person.  So recordings mostly rely on intensity differences at the ears to recreate sound sources localized in perceived space.

 

 

How does this localization work? In the 1970's  I worked in the Dept. of Electrical Engineering at the University of Canterbury in New Zealand.  A graduate student there, Derek Rowell, had recently completed his PhD. on the amplitude function for localization, i.e. how much difference does there have to be in amplitude difference of a signal at each ear for the sound to appear to shift to the side.  He found it was somewhere in the region of 0.25 to 0.3 dB/degree, i.e. for each 0.25/0.3 dB difference in amplitude between the ears, sound was perceived as being 1 degree further off to the side. This had not been measured previously or at least not published.  And since Derek did not publish his results either there may still be nothing out in the research literature for all I know since I left the field. He on the other hand moved on to MIT where the last I checked he was a full professor but not working in audition. Research is surprisingly weak on some of these issues and most research does not end up on the internet.  Nor do standard textbooks and treatises on auditory phenomena.  Wikipedia is of some help but can be very misleading too and not reflect research standards. 

post #52 of 110

 

My office Sigma Pro with an old promotional picture.

post #53 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by edstrelow View Post

 

My office Sigma Pro with an old promotional picture.

 

Why are they grey?

post #54 of 110

That's pretty cool. Reserving a bit of Stax history with the promotional ad.

post #55 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

That's pretty cool. Reserving a bit of Stax history with the promotional ad.

 


There are plenty of ads, pamphlets, and magazine reviews of Stax stuff on fleabay and other sites - maybe you should collect those too Defqon?

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

post #56 of 110

They are all too expensive. 

post #57 of 110

Just print the images then??

post #58 of 110

Printer ink is too expensive.

post #59 of 110

Stare at them for a few hours with the monitor brightness & contrast turned right up.

Burns the image permanently on the retinas.....

L3000.gif

post #60 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjinh View Post

 

Why are they grey?

IIRC, Ed had his Sigmas updated to Sigma Pros by Stax at the factory. He also had a Sigma updated to Sigma/404 by Yamasinc/Accutech as well (now known as Stax USA).

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