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philips fidelio x1 vs hifiman he-400 (stronger natural midrange?) - Page 7

Poll Results: stronger natural midrange

This is a multiple choice poll
  • 32% (29)
    hifiman he-400
  • 43% (39)
    fidelio x1
  • 14% (13)
    sennheiser hd 598
  • 13% (12)
    akg q701
90 Total Votes  
post #91 of 185

Thanks, holycheese, excellent comparison and review!

 

Have you tried to compare them using classical music, which do you think is more suitable? Do you think X1 is the "faster" one compared to HD650?


Edited by soaphz - 5/26/13 at 1:22pm
post #92 of 185

I didn't compare the two with classical.

 

My GUESS is that the 650 would be better since it has less bass. I think the extra bass of the x1 makes it a bit unbalanced for classical . And the more even soundstage of the 650 would probably be better too. BUT maybe the 600 is worth considering for classical. I didn't really listen to it alot so I don't have anything usefull to say. No notes either. 

post #93 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by soaphz View Post
Interestingly enough, lots of people compared the X1 with HD650, and found out that HD650 was actually the "veiled" one. For example, Mike from headfonia said "After just weeks with the X1 however, I went back to the 650 and there it was: that slow, sluggish sound that felt a little veiled..."

I've read his review. It's possible (and likely imo) that he has an older HD650. More recently manufactured HD650's are generally regarded as having a less veiled sound than older models. This is one reason for the confusing disparity of opinion in the "Is the HD650 veiled?" debate.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyCheese View Post

I just went to a store the other day and compared the two headphones. The 650's and the x1's using my O2.

 

At the time of A/B ing I was using a MOON 300D as a dac.

 

This is exactly what my notes say with my comments between brackets: (Remember, this is how I percieve the sound! It's always safe to compare them yourself if possible)

X1 O2+moon 300d= Less detailed then 650. Deeper bass, better quality "more layers though the higher volume of the bass may make it easier to hear the layers", less punch. Soundstage is nicer, more distant. Still has a closed feel to it. "would probably be because of the deep bass, maybe I don't like deep bass?"

650 moon 300d + O2= Sounds closer. Everything has more the same distance then X1. Has a nice high SSS  to the sound "No sibilance or S but higher like 10kHz" Sounds much the same as the X1 with less lows and a more sparkly high.

 

To say it in a better way, the 650 is the winner for me unless I need the bass. For electronic music like house I'd prefer the x1. The soundstage of the X1 is further away but the vocals are too close, the rest of the music seems harder to focus on with the x1. The hd 650 placed everything you hear on the same nice distance. It's a little bit closer then the x1. The 650 is also surprisingly more detailed then the x1. Do note that I used a pretty high end dac in my comparison!

 

But here's another thing. I bought the fidelio x1 for 190 euros. The store where I listened to the 650 sells them for 400 euros! That's 210 euro's more. While I find the 650's better, it's only a bit better and diminishing results kicks in here. For twice the price you get +20% performance. (with a high end dac, maybe with the t1 a little less) Since you're from USA (right?) you might not be able to get the x1 at a good price and the 650's are probably much cheaper on the internet. I'd go for the 650's if the difference is not that big.

 

 

If you have any questions ask them now while my memory is still fresh. :)

Wow, this comparison very much coincides with my own! I know exactly what you mean when you say "The hd 650 placed everything you hear on the same nice distance." I felt this lent the HD650 a more coherent soundstage than the X1. The wrong way to take this statement would be to think the HD650's soundstage is "flat". I would say it's more even and natural, rather than flat.
post #94 of 185
This was what I meant with the HD650 sounds "distant" compared to the X1.
post #95 of 185

I guess this just shows how incredibly hard it is to describe how a headphone sounds. It's somehow like describing flavours to other people. Everyone perceives a taste in his own way, what one might find spicy might be normal for another person. It's like round, smooth wine. You have an idea how it would taste, yet you are never really sure. 

post #96 of 185
Yes, could not agree more. But basically, hd650 and x1 are on the same level, plus they may have some similarities in their sound signature, so it's difficult to distinguish one from another. Maybe it's just a matter of personal preference.
post #97 of 185

Yeah, it's funny how people actually often try to express the same thing, but have thousand ways of saying it

post #98 of 185
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyCheese View Post

I just went to a store the other day and compared the two headphones. The 650's and the x1's using my O2.

 

At the time of A/B ing I was using a MOON 300D as a dac.

 

This is exactly what my notes say with my comments between brackets: (Remember, this is how I percieve the sound! It's always safe to compare them yourself if possible)

X1 O2+moon 300d= Less detailed then 650. Deeper bass, better quality "more layers though the higher volume of the bass may make it easier to hear the layers", less punch. Soundstage is nicer, more distant. Still has a closed feel to it. "would probably be because of the deep bass, maybe I don't like deep bass?"

650 moon 300d + O2= Sounds closer. Everything has more the same distance then X1. Has a nice high SSS  to the sound "No sibilance or S but higher like 10kHz" Sounds much the same as the X1 with less lows and a more sparkly high.

 

To say it in a better way, the 650 is the winner for me unless I need the bass. For electronic music like house I'd prefer the x1. The soundstage of the X1 is further away but the vocals are too close, the rest of the music seems harder to focus on with the x1. The hd 650 placed everything you hear on the same nice distance. It's a little bit closer then the x1. The 650 is also surprisingly more detailed then the x1. Do note that I used a pretty high end dac in my comparison!

 

But here's another thing. I bought the fidelio x1 for 190 euros. The store where I listened to the 650 sells them for 400 euros! That's 210 euro's more. While I find the 650's better, it's only a bit better and diminishing results kicks in here. For twice the price you get +20% performance. (with a high end dac, maybe with the t1 a little less) Since you're from USA (right?) you might not be able to get the x1 at a good price and the 650's are probably much cheaper on the internet. I'd go for the 650's if the difference is not that big.

 

 

If you have any questions ask them now while my memory is still fresh. :)

yes I can get the 650 for 399 US dollars (309 euro and the x1 for 359 US dollars (277 euro).

 

Im glad that you mentioned the combination of the O2 because I was curious about combining that with the aune t1. 

I had determined to get both because I love bass and need to have a warm and lush sounding headphone that is somewhat mid centric but they don't have to be all in one headphone. I just didnt know which one first. There would be a month gap inbetween purchases.

The only thing is you describing the x1 as sounding closed. That is not what I was hoping for. For that I might as well just get the m100 for 100 US dollars less. 

post #99 of 185
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyCheese View Post

I guess this just shows how incredibly hard it is to describe how a headphone sounds. It's somehow like describing flavours to other people. Everyone perceives a taste in his own way, what one might find spicy might be normal for another person. It's like round, smooth wine. You have an idea how it would taste, yet you are never really sure. 
I believe you guys have done an excellent job.biggrin.gif  The problem comes when people like myself cannot go to a store to hear it for themselves and have to find cash to get it. For me I depend on hearing the sound right for writing inspiration. 

People explain wine and it helps pick the right one versus another and increases the success of picking the right one.

I love spicy food and am able to take high levels of spice while my wife cant take a little. I am however able to describe the level of heat still. 
You guys have helped me a lot. Plus the fact that out of all of the headphones in this price range I am stuck between only two based on peoples descriptions says a lot. Hd 650 being the unanimous winner for what I described.

Tyll says that the hd650 has too much of a good thing, too lush, but that sounds awesome to me. At the same time if he says its overly warm then I might need to take it into account because he has a natural bend towards warm sounding headphones. I fill find out for myself and don't feel deterred in the least.
Edited by grizzlybeast - 5/26/13 at 9:06pm
post #100 of 185
Thread Starter 
This may be a little bit overboard bit if u have heard the he-400, of the two which ones have better detail he400 or x1. I already see u guys say the 650 is more detailed.
post #101 of 185
You did better than I did😄 One thing that I would like to bring to the table still. Dynamics and heft. In my system the X1 has clearly a lot more than the HD650.
post #102 of 185
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poleepkwa View Post

You did better than I did😄 One thing that I would like to bring to the table still. Dynamics and heft. In my system the X1 has clearly a lot more than the HD650.

when you say heft you don't mean the obvious low end do you or do you mean more full sounding?

post #103 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzlybeast View Post

when you say heft you don't mean the obvious low end do you or do you mean more full sounding?

Not the the low end. Midrange has more weight to it, so more full sounding.

post #104 of 185

Just wanna stir the pot. Actually, since your budget is so high, you should really consider the HE-500, even better the lcd2 tongue_smile.gif

post #105 of 185
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post

Just wanna stir the pot. Actually, since your budget is so high, you should really consider the HE-500, even better the lcd2 tongue_smile.gif

ha not that high. I could save maybe 760 in a month or so but then I would have to justify purchasing an amp for that thing as well I would have to just settle for the O2 and the aune t1. But I guess it would be like having both the x1 and 650 in one headphone. I would get the lcd2 but would have to find a great deal on it.

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