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The Astell & Kern AK120 - Page 284

post #4246 of 6295
post #4247 of 6295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gintaras View Post
 

 

Calyx makes superb DACs and knows its business... so i hope to hear not marginal improvement over AK but a good deal improvement without the need for Vinnie's Mods and else.

 

as concerns size, how big is AK120+amp attached? not so portable either, huh?

AK120 doesn't need an amp or a Vinnie mod to sound great:rolleyes: and we already know it does sound great.:bigsmile_face: People are buying the AK120 precisely because it does sound great without a need for add ons. That was the point of the AK120 vs your AK100. Better sound and amp. There's always preference but nothing is going to 'way' surpass it. There are folks using seperate amps with the 901 and everything else under the sun, just like they will with the Calyx if it becomes viable. Doesn't mean it's necessary 

 

Knowing the DAC business isn't that important to a DAP. It's not the most difficult part to get right. 

post #4248 of 6295
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post
 

AK120 doesn't need an amp or a Vinnie mod to sound great:rolleyes: and we already know it does sound great.:bigsmile_face: People are buying the AK120 precisely because it does sound great without a need for add ons. That was the point of the AK120 vs your AK100. Better sound and amp. There's always preference but nothing is going to 'way' surpass it. There are folks using seperate amps with the 901 and everything else under the sun, just like they will with the Calyx if it becomes viable. Doesn't mean it's necessary 

 

Knowing the DAC business isn't that important to a DAP. It's not the most difficult part to get right. 

 

Vibes, first of all i use RWAK100+T1 which sounds nearly as good as AK120, at least one user having the same combination sold his AK120 because like he wrote me his RWAK+T1 was as good as AK120 and he could not justify AK120 price premium offering so little upside.

 

i also read and see people here and there more and more prefer AK120 amped with good amp, mind this some others say Vinnie's B-mod makes it the end game for DAP and is way way better than what you get from stock AK120.

 

on the rest, lets wait for Calyx DAP to hit the market and we will talk again. i personally will not buy AK120 until i hear Calyx because my respect for Calyx products is way much higher and i know what these dudes are capable of. meanwhile my RWAK+T1 will make sure i do not miss a single beat and incoming DX50 will be enough fun to keep me cool while waiting for Calyx.


Edited by Gintaras - 11/9/13 at 6:39am
post #4249 of 6295

You're spinning. You got the mod for your RWAK100 and are using an amp to make it close to an AK120 which was my point exactly. It's also within $100 with the added bulk to 'sound nearly as good'. The point of the RK120 is that it can sound that good in it's easy to carry and use single item package.

 

Some people prefer everything amped as any DAP will be somewhat limited compared to a separate amp and I have no issue with that as dedicated amps can outperform any included one but it doesn't represent a need. That the earphone out of the stock AK120 is good enough to use as a line out and powerful enough to drive most things says a lot.

 

RW way better? I don't consider a DAP with only a line out a way better device and I'm very familiar with the difference in the DAC chips and their available filters. His mod should be a perceptible improvement if everything is done well but not 'WAY' anything, LOL. It's in that last little bit range and I'm not minimizing it's value to those that want it and are willing to carry around an amp. That's the nature of the beast. I deal in that realm in my home setup, as do you, but that doesn't need to be portable.

 

As for the Calyx. I fully agree that waiting is a great idea since you already have a combo that you like and are willing to tote around. We all buy what we think will serve us best. :bigsmile_face: 


Edited by goodvibes - 11/9/13 at 7:25am
post #4250 of 6295

Will this be world wide available product?

 

Edit: Wrong thread, it was meant for Calyx M.


Edited by AmberOzL - 11/9/13 at 7:54am
post #4251 of 6295
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberOzL View Post
 

Will this be world wide available product?

http://www.head-fi.org/t/687944/999-calyx-m-with-dxd-dsd-64gb-192gb-internal-external-storage/90

post #4252 of 6295


Thanks goodvibes, I mixed the threads, that question was indeed for Calyx M. Many discussions in different threads made me confused.

post #4253 of 6295
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post

AK120 doesn't need an amp or a Vinnie mod to sound great:rolleyes:  and we already know it does sound great.bigsmile_face.gif  People are buying the AK120 precisely because it does sound great without a need for add ons. That was the point of the AK120 vs your AK100. Better sound and amp. There's always preference but nothing is going to 'way' surpass it. There are folks using seperate amps with the 901 and everything else under the sun, just like they will with the Calyx if it becomes viable. Doesn't mean it's necessary 

Knowing the DAC business isn't that important to a DAP. It's not the most difficult part to get right. 

I completely agree with you WC.
I keep going back to the well established HiFi press who have been around for decades and who hear more high end equipment in a year than most of us will hear in a lifetime. They have all to a magazine praised the stock AK120 and AK100. The main differences being found were a slight edge in refinement and overall presentation of the AK120 over the AK100. They have all said the AK120 is worth extra if your willing to pay the extra, if not then you can be just as happy with the AK100.

The 901 and other players do not get a look in and its not because they have not heard them it is just because they feel they are not a product ready for mass market as they are too buggy. I am not naming names but draw your own conclusions.

They all use Apple products as a benchmark, not for sound quality, they quickly establish these players are far superior, no, they use them as a benchmark for ease of use, least amount of bug's and issues and also because when they recommend equipment they only do so with products that they feel will be around for the long run and are able to support their customers.

Yes, of course there will be improvements in sound quality but I think it really important to understand they will not be leaps and bounds improvements anymore. The new crop of high end players in terms of sound quality have set a new benchmark and the improvements for the foreseeable future are going to be I feel more subtle rather than revolutionary.

The revolution started withe the HM801 but there were issues with it that us enthusiasts were prepared to put up with as we knew it sounded so much better but remember, the world is not full of enthusiasts! It is full of average people who are now starting to understand that sonic quality does indeed matter but they want their convenience as well. Thats why so many turn to apple, plug and play for pretty much everything (and yes, I know its not perfect but compared to the majority of high resolution players out there is in terms of usability).

Those people need a viable alternative and at this point the only one is A&K I feel.

I was so tempted by the 901 but am so glad I went for the 120. I just look at the 901 thread and all it is about are bugs, updates and amp swaps. The 120 is continually lambasted as being way more expensive and not better sounding but they all use the balanced amp card which brings it up to the same lever price wise. It may indeed just edge out on sound quality but I think not, sound quality at this level is subjective not absolute.

At this level it is about personal preference not good or bad so what we are left with is how the unit functions. Is it easy to use. is it buggy and keeps failing or does it operate reasonably effortlessly and with few problems (it is unreasonable to expect absolutely perfect and faultless operation I feel, after all, these are high tech machines and perfection is simply not possible in anything!)

The 901 and iBasso's are half products, the simply fall at the usability stakes in day to day use for the average person ( I am not talking geeky kids who like updating their android systems on a weekly basis and enjoy the challenge of that!)

I think there are many reasons why so many outside of headfi are talking about the AK range and not the other brands, form, function, excellent sound quality, excellent back up service ( I have phoned AK USA on three occasions and each one has connected me with a knowledgeable human, not a machine!)

There are two very tough tests for the portable audio world. Acceptance of it being worth spending the extra for sound quality by the general public (not just us portable audio nerds tongue.gif ) and acknowledgement and acceptance as a serious force by the established HiFi world and media. Those two things are essential for the next stage of portable and headphone audio I feel as with those two we will see a return to higher standards in the source material, the music!

And lets not forget, what is all this gear we love so much about? Its about getting as close as possible to the music and what the artist conveys. We now have the quality in replay equipment, this I feel when taken up by the masses will force the record companies to re-evaluate their end of the bargain.

People will soon hear how the sound quality has been murdered by the industry when they listen through better gear and you can be sure they will vote with their wallets and that will change the landscape I feel.

Sorry for the long post and I hope what I have written makes some sense and I will end with this.

Part of what I do is working in the music industry and personally I am very excited about where products such as the Astell &Kerns are taking us. It reminds me of the golden age of vinyl, it reminds me of the flourish and beginning of the high end in vinyl in the late 60's through to the beginning of the 80's and all that gave us in terms of quality music reproduction. People cared about their systems, the record companies cared about what they produced.

I feel we are on the cusp of a sonic renaissance very similar to that period and that excites me. I feel it is down in the main to several factors one of which is this forum. For all its warts it has created far more beauty in that it has championed sound quality and substance over mass mentality and it has grown to proportions where it simply must be heard and seen as a serious voice, kudos to Jude for that and for sticking at it to bring this forum to where it is now.

Secondly the resurgence of vinyl, yes it is small but it is the audience it targets and has had most effect which is important. The very vocal and fashionable hipsters. I kid you not! Most of them are in marketing or lifestyle fields so the message is spreading far more effectively. They and others hear what vinyl can do but want to combine that with the ease of downloading and portability and now, thanks to high speed internet they have that!

Just some thoughts, and again, sorry for the long winded post!
post #4254 of 6295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gintaras View Post
 

 

Vibes, first of all i use RWAK100+T1 which sounds nearly as good as AK120, at least one user having the same combination sold his AK120 because like he wrote me his RWAK+T1 was as good as AK120 and he could not justify AK120 price premium offering so little upside.

 

May I ask how much does the combo RWAK100+T1 cost?

 

Based on my estimation:

 

AK100 + RW mod + T1 = $700 + $250 + $260

Shipping cost: $30 for the RW mod and I don't know how much the shipping cost of T1.

 

So totally you will pay ~$1250 for a bigger stack which sounds nearly as good as the Ak120!??

 

You also take risk of losing manufacturer warranty by attempting mod as well.

 

So, what is your point?

post #4255 of 6295
Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightwalker View Post

May I ask how much does the combo RWAK100+T1 cost?

Based on my estimation:

AK100 + RW mod + T1 = $700 + $250 + $260
Shipping cost: $30 for the RW mod and I don't know how much the shipping cost of T1.

So totally you will pay ~$1250 for a bigger stack which sounds nearly as good as the Ak120!??

You also take risk of losing manufacturer warranty by attempting mod as well.

So, what is your point?

it's not about whether my combo costs close or not, this is all ABOUT price and what you get for it and second i do not like iRiver policy not pre announcing properly products, i bought my combo just two months before AK120 came, you can imagine I would have waited for AK120 if knew about it, but thanks to silly dealing policy of iRiver i bought what i have.

now my question is simple, should i buy ak120 and then learn about ak130 two months later? how about premarketing, else? now compare this to Calyx way of marketing, and what i see i like a lot. so should i be excited about ak120 only because some people like it or should i wait and try Calyx and perhaps ak130???

and yes, the dude who compared his RWAK and T1 to AK120 found improvements not worth. never forget when i pay for my rig and sell it later i lose some pennies so natrual question is how much is my loss worth in terms of what i get? sadly i am not excited about the answer.

iRiver must learn how high-end boys do it for marketing, customer care and else.... my Naim is guaranteed better than a car, 5 years on and service like a breeze... product announcements come in pretty in advance and with all info attach.... now remember how we were guessing, reading various posts about ak120 until iRiver came out clean???

so perhaps now you can see my point better why i am so excited about high-end gear maker entering portable market.
Edited by Gintaras - 11/9/13 at 11:03am
post #4256 of 6295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gintaras View Post

now my question is simple, should i buy ak120 and then learn about ak130 two months later? how about premarketing, else? now compare this to Calyx way of marketing, and what i see i like a lot. so should i be excited about ak120 only because some people like it or should i wait and try Calyx and perhaps ak130???

 

I have got your point but for the question above, I would say these products (AK100/AK120) are selling for different segments. If I only have enough money to buy the AK100, i would not care if they will release the AK120 or AK130 or whatever more expensive. However, in this case, you have more budget and did not have more options at the time you pulled your trigger. In this case, many people decided to sell their current rigs to upgrade.

 

I understood your anger and also on your side against iRiver's policy, but that was their decision and we have our decisions too. Just check Apple's policy on their new products, have they ever disclosed the information a month before the date the products are actually put on sale?


Edited by midnightwalker - 11/9/13 at 11:44am
post #4257 of 6295
mate, believe me, when you pay this money and next day they announce new DAP you feel betrayed.

as regards good DAP i know some people hold HiSound in high esteem and no need for amp, or of you want to know my opinion then i can always suggest Colorfly C3 player and C&C BH2 amplifier, this makes a great combo and the only drawback is too spartan and irky GUI... but no bugs and sound is great. i have this alongside with RWAK and can tell you i often put away my Rwak and switch to c3 BH because there is something magic simple about this combo and music gets life feel to it, C3 is also less aggressive which means less fatiguing on long sessions.

as regads Apple, we all are well aware of life cycle of particular product and speculation starts long before ... believe it or not but someone told me this was hidden policy of Jobs to do some purposed leaks to the media instead of preannouncng in order to keep intrigue going. i have plenty apple products at home and never ever had an issue or was ill informed, all it takes just check magazines and blogs to read, good old Steve knew how to do it biggrin.gif
Edited by Gintaras - 11/9/13 at 11:53am
post #4258 of 6295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gintaras View Post

mate, believe me, when you pay this money and next day they announce new DAP you feel betrayed.

 

Absolutely but if I bought the old DAP and they announced a new DAP on next day, I still have chance to return the DAP :p

 

but damn...i experienced that feeling :(

post #4259 of 6295
Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightwalker View Post

Absolutely but if I bought the old DAP and they announced a new DAP on next day, I still have chance to return the DAP tongue.gif

but damn...i experienced that feeling frown.gif

aha, now you know wink.gif

you cannot trade it back after two months frown.gif

more funny is that i am happy about RWAK and Vinnie did great job to a good product, all i wish iRiver finally gets their buts off and works out FW making Flac Cue lists readable. so i will wait gladly as i said, but nothing wrong with ak120, there is only excitement about Calyx because i heard their DACs and must admit they sounded real good and compete well too. so if they do the same to DAP then i am all theirs.
post #4260 of 6295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gintaras View Post

mate, believe me, when you pay this money and next day they announce new DAP you feel betrayed.

It's not personal.:wink_face: I prefer short lead announcements instead of dealing with months of conjecture of vaporware.

 

I don't really understand that if you knew that soon after your purchase and would have preferred a ak120 (why else feel betrayed?), why you didn't just take a $100 loss and switch instead of modding and adding. 

 

Maybe I got the sequence wrong and the Mod was already in when you found out.


Edited by goodvibes - 11/9/13 at 2:48pm
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