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The Astell & Kern AK120 - Page 232

post #3466 of 6115
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMinor View Post


I speak from my own diymod experience. I have tried many many different caps from 4.7uf to 3,000,000 uf and some difference made is big (hate to use the words day and night). It makes me to appreciate the iems and amps I have. No iems or amps will clean the dust created by the circuit, period. Even the lod's make quite difference immediately before amping. I am glad I can experiment and hear all these differences myself.

 

If you don't mind me saying so, I think the example you provided above is rather inapplicable. I don't mean to insult your DIY skills in particular, however if a DIYer were to use components of the wrong value altogther is building a poor product and doesn't know what he/she's doing.

The assumption is that a commercial business do actually know what they're doing and are using the right parts (or at least the right values at the very least, but maybe not the best quality components from a cost perspective).

I could be wrong but I believe up to a certain point of a product design, it can be deemed as "right" and "wrong" but beyond that point, is a matter of design style preferences, management of manufacturing costs (parts & labour), etc. And in commercial products I think the differences we hear are the latter preferences - and that's where the resulting variance can be deemed "minor" depending on the listener's ears.
post #3467 of 6115
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMinor View Post


I speak from my own diymod experience. I have tried many many different caps from 4.7uf to 3,000,000 uf and some difference made is big (hate to use the words day and night). It makes me to appreciate the iems and amps I have. No iems or amps will clean the dust created by the circuit, period. Even the lod's make quite difference immediately before amping. I am glad I can experiment and hear all these differences myself.

 

If you don't mind me saying so, I think the example you provided above is rather inapplicable. I don't mean to insult your DIY skills in particular, however if a DIYer were to use components of the wrong value altogther is building a poor product and doesn't know what he/she's doing.

The assumption is that a commercial business do actually know what they're doing and are using the right parts (or at least the right values at the very least, but maybe not the best quality components from a cost perspective).

My belief is up to a certain point of a product design, it can be deemed as "right" and "wrong" design. But beyond that point, is a matter of design style preferences, management of manufacturing costs (parts & labour), etc. And in commercial products I think the differences we hear in the SQ are more due to the latter preferences - and that's where the resulting variance can be deemed "minor" depending on the listener's ears.

Using components of the wrong values is like a DIYer putting square vs round tires on a car and saying that it makes the most difference to the performance of a car. The car manufacturers hopefully wouldn't consider putting square tires on all their cars in the first place.
post #3468 of 6115
Quote:
Originally Posted by harryb View Post

 

This is a question impossible to answer without knowing the wants, needs, budget of the listener as well as his or her experience in audio.


wants/needs : reach to a "end game" state, i.e. having the best setup available in the market
budget: this is the question
experience: any

 

In the spirit of doing budget for next year for work, I want ask the same question for my  portable audio hobby.. I understand that the AK120 is highly regarded as the top source in the market and that RWAK120-S will upgrade and correct the problem of not having line out... so if I did spend on this, how much do I need to upgrade iem and amp?

post #3469 of 6115
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post

 

If you don't mind me saying so, I think the example you provided above is rather inapplicable. I don't mean to insult your DIY skills in particular, however if a DIYer were to use components of the wrong value altogther is building a poor product and doesn't know what he/she's doing.

The assumption is that a commercial business do actually know what they're doing and are using the right parts (or at least the right values at the very least, but maybe not the best quality components from a cost perspective).

I could be wrong but I believe up to a certain point of a product design, it can be deemed as "right" and "wrong" but beyond that point, is a matter of design style preferences, management of manufacturing costs (parts & labour), etc. And in commercial products I think the differences we hear are the latter preferences - and that's where the resulting variance can be deemed "minor" depending on the listener's ears.

 

Can you tell me if I am doing wrong using the 3,000,000 uf caps for the diymod? This is why I love trial and error and hear the difference myself. People would say you are crazy with that caps especially if I am telling you now I even have dc offsets to amping. But my ears tell me a different story.

post #3470 of 6115
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicHolyGhost View Post


wants/needs : reach to a "end game" state, i.e. having the best setup available in the market
budget: this is the question
experience: any

 

In the spirit of doing budget for next year for work, I want ask the same question for my  portable audio hobby.. I understand that the AK120 is highly regarded as the top source in the market and that RWAK120-S will upgrade and correct the problem of not having line out... so if I did spend on this, how much do I need to upgrade iem and amp?


What sound singature are you looking for? I'd say if you aren't going for a TOTL universal or CIEM don't waste your time and money on the AK120. You won't get the full potential if your IEM or headphones are lacking. But as I said above what sound signature are you after and then others can chime in.

post #3471 of 6115
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post


What sound singature are you looking for? I'd say if you aren't going for a TOTL universal or CIEM don't waste your time and money on the AK120. You won't get the full potential if your IEM or headphones are lacking. But as I said above what sound signature are you after and then others can chime in.

 

Couldn't agree more.  There are at least a half dozen amps and and half dozen (or more) headphones that will likely pair extremely well with the AK120 or RWAK120-S.  I say likely, because I have only heard a few of these.  But at this level, it becomes a matter of sound signature preference.  We all have engaged in debates about what's best, and everybody seems to love the equipment they own.......but in the end, beauty is in the ear of the beholder.

post #3472 of 6115
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMinor View Post

 

Can you tell me if I am doing wrong using the 3,000,000 uf caps for the diymod? This is why I love trial and error and hear the difference myself. People would say you are crazy with that caps especially if I am telling you now I even have dc offsets to amping. But my ears tell me a different story.

 

Note your example didn't state which was better between the 4.7uF vs 3F. So I never said that the 3F was "wrong" one. Anyway you'll have to ask the diymod threads to answer your question rather than in the AK120 thread.

But not to detract from your original blanket statement - that the source is the most important and you qualified it by an example. I'm merely challenging that the example is a poor one to justify your blanket statement.

P.S. [OT] I use 4.7uF on my diyMod cos I was advised to do so. Admittedly I've not tried other values yet.

P.P.S. On Topic, I personally believe in :-
1) IEM/Headphone
2) Firmware (sadly, we can't discredit this in DAPs)
3) DAC/Source
4) Amp
5) Cables
6) Transport
Exceptions to some makers may shift the priorities of (2) -> (5). e.g. with the Tralucent cables, I'd probably say they may fall in (3) even. But most other brands I've tried, I'd keep it at (5).
post #3473 of 6115
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post

 

Note your example didn't state which was better between the 4.7uF vs 3F. So I never said that the 3F was "wrong" one. Anyway you'll have to ask the diymod threads to answer your question rather than in the AK120 thread.

But not to detract from your original blanket statement - that the source is the most important and you qualified it by an example. I'm merely challenging that the example is a poor one to justify your blanket statement.


No disrespect to you or anyone, you really think I was asking you or other thread for advice on the caps? No one serves me better than my ears. Of course everything I have stated may not be true to others. YMMV. wink_face.gif

 

My apology for the off-topic.

post #3474 of 6115
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMinor View Post


No disrespect to you or anyone, you really think I was asking you or other thread for advice on the caps? No one serves me better than my ears. Of course everything I have stated may not be true to others. YMMV. wink_face.gif

 

My apology for the off-topic.

 

No hard feelings taken. But you did ask me a point blank question :p. Not having met or know you, I honestly didn'nt know if your question was rhetorical.

However, you are right that it's your ears that you trust the most and I fully agree with you about that. As such I was more offended by your blanket statement of the source being the most important. If it's written to indicate it was more your personal preference that the source is most important to you, I probably wouldn't have taken much less notice.
post #3475 of 6115
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post

 

No hard feelings taken. But you did ask me a point blank question :p. Not having met or know you, I honestly didn'nt know if your question was rhetorical.

However, you are right that it's your ears that you trust the most and I fully agree with you about that. As such I was more offended by your blanket statement of the source being the most important. If it's written to indicate it was more your personal preference that the source is most important to you, I probably wouldn't have taken much less notice.

 

Well nothing can better his EX1000 or modded ipod Sean ;)...

post #3476 of 6115
What are caps? Some thingy you but inside the player?
post #3477 of 6115

I think they are capacitors and regulate power? Better caps supposedly have a positive impact on sound?
 

post #3478 of 6115
Oh ok like the thingies in the Tera's output stage causing bass roll off with low impedance iems...
post #3479 of 6115
Quote:
Originally Posted by harryb View Post

 

Couldn't agree more.  There are at least a half dozen amps and and half dozen (or more) headphones that will likely pair extremely well with the AK120 or RWAK120-S.  I say likely, because I have only heard a few of these.  But at this level, it becomes a matter of sound signature preference.  We all have engaged in debates about what's best, and everybody seems to love the equipment they own.......but in the end, beauty is in the ear of the beholder.


Now this brings another interesting question of sound signature. For example, I recently bought ASG-2 and compared them with Parterre. I was told by two people that such comparison is not valid because the sound signatures are different.  I respect more experienced people's comments. However, I cannot get over my head with this idea... aren't earphones just earphones? Why one pair cannot compare with another?

 

Just for the sake of discussion, I listen to classical and jazz only, 99% instrumental...

post #3480 of 6115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimouille View Post

Oh ok like the thingies in the Tera's output stage causing bass roll off with low impedance iems...

 

Aren't those resistors or are resistors the same thing?

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