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Shure SE846: A New In-Ear Flagship From Shure. Finally! (Impressions p26-28) - Page 59

post #871 of 3180
Balanced armatures need a very low output impedance amp. Otherwise linearity of the signal (and hence the frequency response) will be distorted becausa ba earphones do not have linear impedance and are tricky to feed with tonal accuracy.

In my book a balanced armature with 9 Ohms of impedance at any point of the bandwidth NEEDS an amp with a z lower than 1 (2 at most).

An iPhone 5 or an iPod classic will skew several decibels the intended fr of the SE846. Unless the SE846 turns out to be the first ba earphone with constant impedance.


Success is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm
Edited by elfary - 5/18/13 at 6:44am
post #872 of 3180
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperLeader View Post

It is very simple.   The lower the Ohm number value, the higher the impedance.    As you add more speakers/armatures to an IEM,  the impedance goes up , and in turn you need more amps to drive the enclosure  at the same voltage.   

 

This is not exactly the case with the SE-535 which are very efficient  @ 36 Ohms.    My SE 535s do not need an external amp to drive them.   The amp in my Iphone is really not too bad and more than up to the tasks.   On the other hand,  at  9 Ohms, enclosures like the SE-846 would benefit greatly from an external amp if you are using an iPod or iPhone.  The wattage (Voltage x Amperage) on those units are very low.   You need 4X the amperes to drive the 846 as opposed to the 535 at the same volume/voltage.    If you have a high quality amp,  the 846 would sound more visceral at the same voltage/volume as long as you amp can mitigate the distortion caused from pumping more amps though those less efficient  enclosures.  

 

The SE-846 and the IE-800s are the first IEMs I know of, that would seem to benefit from an external amp and that is a good thing if you got the money to complement them with a good clean amp.

 

Another way to look at it:  you can drive a cheap tiny 32 ohm Travel alarm speaker using 5 volts  at 1 amp and generate 80 to 82dB.    On the other hand, a 2 ohm speaker needs 16 amps to generate the same 80db at 5 volts.   Both will show the same Db  on a meter, but one with move you (literally).  It's  5 watts vs 80 watts.   The higher resistance enclosure ( 2 ohm) will sound richer, deeper, as opposed to tinny ( 32 ohm).    But again, the rub is you will spend good $$$  to get an amp that is quiet.  It is easy to make thing quiet at low wattage.  That goes for motor controller and PC’s etc.   

 

I hope this helps.

That's completely wrong. The drivers are in parallel with mostly series crossovers in IEMs. The impedance would go down as you add drivers, not up and the crossovers tends to keep things from moving as much either way by having individual device impedances stay more constant within their ranges. As IEMs tend to use mechanical low pass, impedance does tend to go down. You really don't know what you're talking about. Just a bunch of poor assumptions.

 

 Impedance has nothing to do with perceived volume. If playing at the same DB level. A lower impedance device will often pull more current and play louder. It's louder because it's, um, louder, not because it's playing at the same volume with a lower impedance. You've got a bass ackwards rationalization of events.


Edited by goodvibes - 5/18/13 at 7:30am
post #873 of 3180
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post

You really don't know what you're talking about. Just a bunch of poor assumptions.

+1
post #874 of 3180
Quote:
Originally Posted by elfary View Post

Balanced armatures need a very low output impedance amp. Otherwise linearity of the signal (and hence the frequency response) will be distorted becausa ba earphones do not have linear impedance and are tricky to feed with tonal accuracy.

In my book a balanced armature with 9 Ohms of impedance at any point of the bandwidth NEEDS an amp with a z lower than 1 (2 at most).

An iPhone 5 or an iPod classic will skew several decibels the intended fr of the SE846. Unless the SE846 turns out to be the first ba earphone with constant impedance.


Success is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm

This is not entirely true either. While I agree that a low impedance should also have a low Z amp, Armatures don't inherently need a low z amp. The issue has more to do with their standard impedance. They tend to b quite linear in impedance from low bass to the mids and than rising. If you start with a higher impedance BA, which there are plenty of, most anything will drive it without showing linearity aberration. With multi driver anything all bets are off until you can see an impedance curve. The TF10 is noted for it's wide impedance swings and resulting deviations but if a higher impedance tweeter was used, anything with a 5 ohm output impedance would do a fine job driving it instead of lopping of 1/2 the highs as it would now. Of course back then, selection was more limited. I look at these more as poor design choices than inherent device issues.


Edited by goodvibes - 5/18/13 at 7:45am
post #875 of 3180

sorry for bringin this up again, will a sansa clip be able to drive them properly? I really don't want to carry a brick (the famous portable rig with amp), I think a lot people will agree with me, it will be excellent just to place the clip inside the shure's bag and be done with it, Just my opinion so do not start a fight because I want to use a clip with it like it happened before.


Edited by Gorillaz - 5/18/13 at 7:59am
post #876 of 3180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorillaz View Post

sorry for bringin this up again, will a sansa clip be able to drive them properly? I really don't want to carry a brick (the famous portable rig with amp), I think a lot people will agree with me, it will be excellent just to place the clip inside the shure's bag and be done with it, Just my opinion so do not start a fight because I want to use a clip with it like it happened before.

 

It definitely will be enough, given the specs. The Clip+ is a great player

post #877 of 3180

Low ohm IEMs will usually have more channel crosstalk too if I´ve understood things correctly. It´s in no way an advantage. The EarSonics SM64 at 90 or so ohms will run just fine off a modern iPod. Personally I don´t feel there´s a need to go low-ohm as most devices can output enough voltage just fine and there´s actually real disadvantages with a low impedance.

post #878 of 3180

umm for the price like 1000$, is the nozzle made up of stainless steel? and where is it made? (like current flagship for shure the SE535LTD, its made in china)

post #879 of 3180

If this were the 1980's the China workmanship might be a concern but the workmanship in China is just as good as anywhere in the world and sometimes better.  It has to be and is generally very highly controlled.

 

The bigger issue are the MATERIALS that are used.  Poorly sourced materials from China can obviously be a problem.

 

People confuse these two issues all the time.

post #880 of 3180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

If this were the 1980's the China workmanship might be a concern but the workmanship in China is just as good as anywhere in the world and sometimes better.  It has to be and is generally very highly controlled.

 

The bigger issue are the MATERIALS that are used.  Poorly sourced materials from China can obviously be a problem.

 

People confuse these two issues all the time.

+1

 

Don't dismiss chinese robotics...

post #881 of 3180

I agree that china has great workmanship.  The material is just a totally different story though: they either become really brittle and break too soon, emit dangerous radiation, emit toxins and poisons, or just randomly explode.  Once they get over that hump, they'll be just as good as japan.  I remember long ago, 'made in japan' used to be a deterrent for purchases, but now it's a plus.

post #882 of 3180
Still..... Shure engineers create the spec and standards for the materials, tolerances, etc. Then its up to compliance and stringent incoming inspection guidelines.
Edited by Spyro - 5/18/13 at 12:31pm
post #883 of 3180

Makers like Shure have their own people in Chinese factories to overlook things.

post #884 of 3180
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post

Makers like Shure have their own people in Chinese factories to overlook things.

 

Well that doesn't sound good at all.    

post #885 of 3180

FWIW, I posted the following in a different thread a few days ago:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321

  • The first batch of made-in-USA Westone UM3X had QC issues

 

  • The first batch of made-in-USA Westone UM3X-RC (removable cable) released a year later had QC issues

 

  • Fewer QC issues reported of the made-in-China Westone 3 & Westone 4 than the first batches of UM3X, UM3X-RC & UM2-RC

 

  • The $500 made-in-Japan Sony EX1000 housings have always had QC issues

 

  • The $200 made-in-Thailand Sony EX600 has never had any QC issues

 

  • The $1,000 made-in-Germany Sennheiser IE800 has an incredibly microphonic cable. The official specs stated a cable length of 120cm when in actual fact it's 12cm shorter (108cm)

 

  • The $400 made-in-China Sennheiser IE8 is one of the best IEMs QC-wise ever made

 

  • The $1,500 made-in-Germany HD800 hasn't exactly got the best build quality I've seen.

 

  • The $350 ($500 initially) made-in-France Earsonics SM3 has had some of the worst build quality I've seen in any IEM — coupled with CS that leaves a lot to be desired

 

  • No QC issues with my made-in-China MacBook Pro or 4G iPod Touch

 

 

EDIT: HOWEVER, Thay said, it's well documented the cable issues many people had with the SE530 and, though differently and fewer cases, there were also quite a few reported cases of issues with the SE535 & SE215 (swivel-type) connectors.


Edited by music_4321 - 5/18/13 at 5:50pm
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