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post #856 of 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

Is there an advantage to having a lower impedance? If anything, it makes finding a "magic 8" damping factor harder. Also from what I recall, lower impedance headphones are actually harder to drive due to the higher current needed.

 

There is an advantage, and a disadvantage.  The advantage is that it can become easier to drive.  The disadvantage is that it'll require a low-output-impedance source to be run from.  So it'll be source dependent.

post #857 of 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

There is an advantage, and a disadvantage.  The advantage is that it can become easier to drive.  The disadvantage is that it'll require a low-output-impedance source to be run from.  So it'll be source dependent.

I may be totally off but I thought the "magic 8" impedance ratio was much more important for dynamic drivers than balanced armitures. Please correct me if I am wrong because I want to drive the 846 from a 4.5omh iPhone 5.
post #858 of 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by spook76 View Post


I may be totally off but I thought the "magic 8" impedance ratio was much more important for dynamic drivers than balanced armitures. Please correct me if I am wrong because I want to drive the 846 from a 4.5omh iPhone 5.


sorry but BA drivers are just as source dependant.  My sony xba 40's turn brighter the higher the output impedance.  To my ears though, dynamic drivers are less dependent.

post #859 of 3040

If you plan to drive these off of your Iphone 5 - without an amp,  the 535s may be a better choice.    I am very happy with the iphone 5 and my 535 set up.   Re: the SE 846, 9 ohms, this is unheard of  resistance for an IEM.    Sonically  this is a good thing, as most of you know.   With the proper amp  this should give  a more visceral feel than other IEM's.     Should be interesting.  I am looking into the new Headstage Arrow 4T.  Maybe perfect for these.    Has anybody heard Gehrke's new amp?  It should be shipping by now.

post #860 of 3040
If you are going to forgo an external idevice DAC and amp then Heir offers superior resolution and sound than the SE535
post #861 of 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperLeader View Post

If you plan to drive these off of your Iphone 5 - without an amp,  the 535s may be a better choice.    I am very happy with the iphone 5 and my 535 set up.   Re: the SE 846, 9 ohms, this is unheard of  resistance for an IEM.    Sonically  this is a good thing, as most of you know.   With the proper amp  this should give  a more visceral feel than other IEM's.     Should be interesting.  I am looking into the new Headstage Arrow 4T.  Maybe perfect for these.    Has anybody heard Gehrke's new amp?  It should be shipping by now.

Is it a good thing? That's the first time I've heard that.

 

Again, is there an advantage to having a lower impedance?

post #862 of 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperLeader View Post

If you plan to drive these off of your Iphone 5 - without an amp,  the 535s may be a better choice.    I am very happy with the iphone 5 and my 535 set up.   Re: the SE 846, 9 ohms, this is unheard of  resistance for an IEM.    Sonically  this is a good thing, as most of you know.   With the proper amp  this should give  a more visceral feel than other IEM's.     Should be interesting.  I am looking into the new Headstage Arrow 4T.  Maybe perfect for these.    Has anybody heard Gehrke's new amp?  It should be shipping by now.

I currently own the SE535-J and love it with the iPhone 5. I was hoping to upgrade to the 846 but I want to keep my portable rig to just my iPhone and IEM. The 2:1 impedance ratio with the SE846/iphone 5 combination concerned me and it seems with good reason. Thanks for your help. I hope I can cancel my preorder from Earphonesolutions :-).
post #863 of 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperLeader View Post

Re: the SE 846, 9 ohms, this is unheard of  resistance for an IEM.    Sonically  this is a good thing, as most of you know.   With the proper amp  this should give  a more visceral feel than other IEM's

 

Can you please explain this - and the science behind it?  I can't see why an extremely low impedance would be desirable on an IEM, and why this would be sonically better - and why the bass would be more visceral because of the low impedance.  Await your explanation.

post #864 of 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post

 

Can you please explain this - and the science behind it?  I can't see why an extremely low impedance would be desirable on an IEM, and why this would be sonically better - and why the bass would be more visceral because of the low impedance.  Await your explanation.

It's just wrong. Depending on the overall impedance curve the nominal 9 ohm 1k ohm impedance may or may not be an issue at times but impedance doesn't correlate to visceral in any way. We'll have to wait and see but the 846 may have a higher impedance in the bass and treble. It's not just about linear impedance either. Many DAPs and amps have coupling caps that act as a high pass and will show low frequency roll below 20 ohms or so.

 

Even an amp with 1 ohm output impedance may be more stable into a higher one. If it sounds more lively driving a lower impedance there may just be a bit more amplifier ring to it though since everything else if never equal, it would be difficult to qualify.


Edited by goodvibes - 5/18/13 at 5:21am
post #865 of 3040

It is very simple.   The lower the Ohm number value, the higher the impedance.    As you add more speakers/armatures to an IEM,  the impedance goes up , and in turn you need more amps to drive the enclosure  at the same voltage.   

 

This is not exactly the case with the SE-535 which are very efficient  @ 36 Ohms.    My SE 535s do not need an external amp to drive them.   The amp in my Iphone is really not too bad and more than up to the tasks.   On the other hand,  at  9 Ohms, enclosures like the SE-846 would benefit greatly from an external amp if you are using an iPod or iPhone.  The wattage (Voltage x Amperage) on those units are very low.   You need 4X the amperes to drive the 846 as opposed to the 535 at the same volume/voltage.    If you have a high quality amp,  the 846 would sound more visceral at the same voltage/volume as long as you amp can mitigate the distortion caused from pumping more amps though those less efficient  enclosures.  

 

The SE-846 and the IE-800s are the first IEMs I know of, that would seem to benefit from an external amp and that is a good thing if you got the money to complement them with a good clean amp.

 

Another way to look at it:  you can drive a cheap tiny 32 ohm Travel alarm speaker using 5 volts  at 1 amp and generate 80 to 82dB.    On the other hand, a 2 ohm speaker needs 16 amps to generate the same 80db at 5 volts.   Both will show the same Db  on a meter, but one with move you (literally).  It's  5 watts vs 80 watts.   The higher resistance enclosure ( 2 ohm) will sound richer, deeper, as opposed to tinny ( 32 ohm).    But again, the rub is you will spend good $$$  to get an amp that is quiet.  It is easy to make thing quiet at low wattage.  That goes for motor controller and PC’s etc.   

 

I hope this helps.

post #866 of 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperLeader View Post

It is very simple.   The lower the Ohm number value, the higher the impedance.    As you add more speakers/armatures to an IEM,  the impedance goes up , and in turn you need more amps to drive the enclosure  at the same voltage.   

 

This is not exactly the case with the SE-535 which are very efficient  @ 36 Ohms.    My SE 535s do not need an external amp to drive them.   The amp in my Iphone is really not too bad and more than up to the tasks.   On the other hand,  at  9 Ohms, enclosures like the SE-846 would benefit greatly from an external amp if you are using an iPod or iPhone.  The wattage (Voltage x Amperage) on those units are very low.   You need 4X the amperes to drive the 846 as opposed to the 535 at the same volume/voltage.    If you have a high quality amp,  the 846 would sound more visceral at the same voltage/volume as long as you amp can mitigate the distortion caused from pumping more amps though those less efficient  enclosures.  

 

The SE-846 and the IE-800s are the first IEMs I know of, that would seem to benefit from an external amp and that is a good thing if you got the money to complement them with a good clean amp.

 

Another way to look at it:  you can drive a cheap tiny 32 ohm Travel alarm speaker using 5 volts  at 1 amp and generate 80 to 82dB.    On the other hand, a 2 ohm speaker needs 16 amps to generate the same 80db at 5 volts.   Both will show the same Db  on a meter, but one with move you (literally).  It's  5 watts vs 80 watts.   The higher resistance enclosure ( 2 ohm) will sound richer, deeper, as opposed to tinny ( 32 ohm).    But again, the rub is you will spend good $$$  to get an amp that is quiet.  It is easy to make thing quiet at low wattage.  That goes for motor controller and PC’s etc.   

 

I hope this helps.

 

I think you have it backwards there buddy. Resistance is measured in ohms, so the lower the ohms, the lower the amount of power you'd need to push through. The downside to such a low OI is that you'd need a source with lower than or equal to 1 ohm in order to maintain the actual FR of the 846. Higher than that would skew the FR.*

 

*If what I posted is wrong, blame my physics professor.

post #867 of 3040

 Impedance is how you get more watts into a speaker and that does correlate to visceral.   There are also other factors that make up a great speaker, but to say  "impedance doesn't correlate to visceral in any way" is just wrong.

 

Re the SE-846, keep in mind that, along with 9 Ohm rating,  there is also a  4 inch  steel plated baffle inside.   That is going to have a wattage penalty as well.   While my Iphone 5 does sound good,  the amp is not that strong, so we will just have to see.

post #868 of 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperLeader View Post

 Impedance is how you get more watts into a speaker and that does correlate to visceral.   There are also other factors that make up a great speaker, but to say  "impedance doesn't correlate to visceral in any way" is just wrong.

 

Re the SE-846, keep in mind that, along with 9 Ohm rating,  there is also a  4 inch  steel plated baffle inside.   That is going to have a wattage penalty as well.   While my Iphone 5 does sound good,  the amp is not that strong, so we will just have to see.

 

Now you're just plain wrong.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_impedance

 

 

 

Quote:
Electrical impedance is the measure of the opposition that a circuit presents to the passage of a current when a voltage is applied
post #869 of 3040

Sorry,  I ment lower impedance as in a four ohm speaker has a lower resistance to electrical current than an eight ohm speaker. Therefore, a four ohm speaker will draw more power from the amplifier than an eight ohm speaker.  

 

kill me...

post #870 of 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperLeader View Post

Sorry,  I ment lower impedance as in a four ohm speaker has a lower resistance to electrical current than an eight ohm speaker. Therefore, a four ohm speaker will draw more power from the amplifier than an eight ohm speaker.  

 

kill me...

 

biggrin.gif

 

In that case, yes you're right. However, that doesn't mean it will need an external amplifier to sound right. It just means your battery life will be reduced significantly.

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