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Shure SE846: A New In-Ear Flagship From Shure. Finally! (Impressions p26-28) - Page 41

post #601 of 2875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post


It's not only the fact that it caps at 15k but the fact that it really looses presence past 10k (the roll off many report) Overtones are there, these subdue it. Why can't flaws be accepted? Why can't the discussion be kept a mature respectable level?

There's nothing "mature" about your trolling on a thread about a largely unknown future Shure IEM called the SE846. There's also nothing mature about my making fun of your trolling so I'll stop now. Have a good night.

post #602 of 2875
Quote:
Originally Posted by truckdriver View Post

You're now insisting that 20khz is vital when most people over 30 yrs old (reportedly) can't hear over 17khz (with 17k being useless high-pitched noise).

Shure reports the response to 19khz on the 535 so clearly these are not the IEMs for you and your "air instrument".  So why exactly are you posting on this thread about the new SE846? I mean, shouldn't you be on the IEM to 20khz thread?

Inks actually has a strong point, so no need to flame him. I've posted it before in this thread that I wonder why they boosted the 1-8khz region when the roll off is the biggest critique on the se535. We are just wondering if the roll off is still there. IMO if you are paying $ 1k for an iem, why should you not expect extension??

And yes, 17khz+ is a dodgy discussion, but please, anything up to 16khz brings cymbals and electric guitars so much to live.. rolled of IEMs simply lack the energy..
post #603 of 2875
Originally Posted by truckdriver View Post

There's nothing "mature" about your trolling on a thread about a largely unknown future Shure IEM called the SE846. There's also nothing mature about my making fun of your trolling so I'll stop now. Have a good night.

There was a specific flaw mentioned that was questioned I had to explain it as it was blown out of porpotion. The emphasis on this flaw does entail that hopefully Shure can get the bandwidth right with the 846, given the price, I really sure hope so as the subass does seem to reach really low whereas the 535 had little subbass decay. 

post #604 of 2875
I've decided that I like Shure's decision to go with absolutely clear plastic. It's definitely against the current grain. At first it looks a bit on the cheap side next to something like the TG334 but you quickly forget about that and appreciate the clean design inside. It's like Shure saying "here's what we think is important. Take a good look. We didn't hold back."
Edited by vwinter - 5/12/13 at 10:04pm
post #605 of 2875

Overtones are indeed very important for classical music. But harmonics and overtones rarely if ever reach above the treble roll off frequencies.... 

 

And for those who don't know if they can hear above 20khz http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/can-you-hear-this-hearing-test/


Edited by uchihaitachi - 5/12/13 at 10:24pm
post #606 of 2875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

So, again, is the better bass worth a $600 upgrade?  rolleyes.gif

 

As far as improved clarity, treble and resolution to SE535.  Just did that with the "star" tips.  That was a $15 upgrade.

 

In Shure's defense, I have to think they bought all the other high end universals and probably a few customs too.  Quite possibly when they priced SE846, SE535 wasn't even part of the equation.  They don't make customs and probably thought the SE846 sounds every bit is good or better than other $1000+ universals and many customs.  Why wouldn't they charge $1000??  If they charged $599 it would kill their SE535 sales regardless of how much better it sounds.

 

In 10 years on HF I have never seen so much hype on a very bassy IEM.  Unless I missed something, that seems to be all we are really talking about here.  A bassier SE535 with changeable filters.

 

Depends what you call a "bassey" IEM. A lot of people like the bass the SE535 has. It's too much for me, but that's me and what I listen to. The SE846 was similar in that it has too much bass for me, but the overall delivery was, IMO, excellent. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

I don't do charts. I do ears.

The star tips provide significant increase in clarity and treble extension.
Enough said.

Regardless of tips the 535 caps at 15k (many tips were tested) as the driver can't do anything past it, enough said. It's called placebo if you think it's significant as a tip won't do what a driver can't.

 

Placebo is a medical term, not an audio one. Please don't add to its gross misuse. Thanks.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

That's assuming you can hear above 16 kHz tongue.gif  Most of use really can't, some of us can though.
usually the younger individuals can hear to 20k. But even healthy older individuals can hear up to 18k

 

Can we get some verification for this information? Also we KNOW it is impossible to accurately measure headphones and IEMs above 10 kHz. I've pointed this out before. We're probably going to need to know your own, properly measured hearing range before you make statements such as the ones you make about the drop-off in the high treble. smile.gif

post #607 of 2875
Quote:
Originally Posted by uchihaitachi View Post

Overtones are indeed very important for classical music. But harmonics and overtones rarely if ever reach above the treble roll off frequencies.... 


And for those who don't know if they can hear above 20khz 
http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/can-you-hear-this-hearing-test/

That was kind of my point. If your system can't reproduce a frequency above for example 16KHz, that test will not help you find out.
post #608 of 2875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post

 

Depends what you call a "bassey" IEM. A lot of people like the bass the SE535 has. It's too much for me, but that's me and what I listen to. The SE846 was similar in that it has too much bass for me, but the overall delivery was, IMO, excellent. 

 

 

Placebo is a medical term, not an audio one. Please don't add to its gross misuse. Thanks.

 

 

Can we get some verification for this information? Also we KNOW it is impossible to accurately measure headphones and IEMs above 10 kHz. I've pointed this out before. We're probably going to need to know your own, properly measured hearing range before you make statements such as the ones you make about the drop-off in the high treble. smile.gif

You can call it that or expectation bias, either way the point gets across, perception of what's actually not there due to awareness of some changing factor. 

 

It's not impossible, it's done all the time, manufacterers themselves measure to test bandwidth at times, what's not reliable is are the intricacy of curves past this region but as a test for bandwidth it's legitimate,if there's a frequency that's produce it's there on the graph otherwise it's not there. I personally test IEM with test tones in comparison to graphs for bandwidthand they perfectly match,most I've found was a 0.5db variation likely due to tips. I can hear above 20kz, certain headfi friends are the same, some can't hear past 16k. 


Edited by Inks - 5/12/13 at 11:07pm
post #609 of 2875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post

 

Depends what you call a "bassey" IEM. A lot of people like the bass the SE535 has. It's too much for me, but that's me and what I listen to. The SE846 was similar in that it has too much bass for me, but the overall delivery was, IMO, excellent. 

 

 

Placebo is a medical term, not an audio one. Please don't add to its gross misuse. Thanks.

 

 

Can we get some verification for this information? Also we KNOW it is impossible to accurately measure headphones and IEMs above 10 kHz. I've pointed this out before. We're probably going to need to know your own, properly measured hearing range before you make statements such as the ones you make about the drop-off in the high treble. smile.gif

Placebo is a terminology that can be used in any field. Speaking of which, both Dr Johnston and Mr Winer both use the term placebo and they are quite the audio gurus to say the least.

Audiology studies have shown young people can indeed hear past 20khz at a young age and it slowly deteriorates through ageing. I am 22 and can hear up to 20khz but barely.

 

Overtones and harmonics in classical music rarely even approach 10khz. Considering that the top c on a piano is around 4500 hz and harmonics in classical music can only really be heard one or two octaves above or below the given note. But for solo violin, I guess one could argue that it does matter.

 

And as Inks says, measuring high frequencies isn't that difficult if you have the correct kit and the correct methodology.


Edited by uchihaitachi - 5/12/13 at 10:43pm
post #610 of 2875
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post

I've decided that I like Shure's decision to go with absolutely clear plastic. It's definitely against the current grain. At first it looks a bit on the cheap side next to something like the TG334 but you quickly forget about that and appreciate the clean design inside. It's like Shure saying "here's what we think is important. Take a good look. We didn't hold back."

I like the white clear shell as well. It displays the carefully-engineered insides very clearly.

post #611 of 2875
Quote:
Originally Posted by uchihaitachi View Post

Overtones and harmonics in classical music rarely even approach 10khz. Considering that the top c on a piano is around 4500 hz and harmonics in classical music can only really be heard one or two octaves above or below the given note. But for solo violin, I guess one could argue that it does matter.

 

 

Yep.  I made that point earlier.  The possible overtones in the 17k-20k hz region (and up) is such a small small small slice of the overall sonic pie that to focus on it beyond a comment or two is to grossly misunderstand its importance.

post #612 of 2875
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

 

That remains to be seen. Perhaps Shure will have looked at the pricing of Sennheiser's flagship IEM, the German-made IE800, priced at £600 in the UK, 700€ in the rest of Europe and $1,000 in the US — £600 / 700€ / $1,000 is already a lot of money for an IEM. I doubt many people would pay £1000 / 1000€ in Europe knowing they can get the SE846 from a reputable online shop like Earphone Solutions for a lot less, and perhaps in 1-2 years' time with a 15% - 25% discount on top of that.

Not exactly, I phoned shure uk up. £999 confirmed release june at selfridges they are going to ring me back when its released here. edit Ive also been in contact with earphone solutions and $1000 deal is for North America only. Ive covered most the bases Im afraid.


Edited by fuzzy1969 - 5/12/13 at 11:06pm
post #613 of 2875
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfoclt View Post

 

Yep.  I made that point earlier.  The possible overtones in the 17k-20k hz region (and up) is such a small small small slice of the overall sonic pie that to focus on it beyond a comment or two is to grossly misunderstand its importance.

You grossly misunderstand our fellow bat members. :p


Edited by uchihaitachi - 5/12/13 at 11:05pm
post #614 of 2875

I actually hate to say this, due the amount of moaning about the price, a lot of people on here are presuming and moaning about the $1000 price stateside is a offer it is actually closer to $1500 rrp. *wait for the thread to start getting derailed with moaning again* sorry.

post #615 of 2875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aero Dynamik View Post

Was that an attempt to answer my question to shigzeo?

 

It would be very interesting to hear shigzeo elaborate (if at all possible) on what he means by "gets you in your guts". Can IEMs create the feeling of visceral impact at all? Maybe the Shure SE846 is the first IEM with that particular ability? Personally I don't think I've ever been close to that. I've somehow felt my eyes vibrate from IEMs (SM3), but in the guts...?

 

I always recommend IEM beginners to be very careful with too loud volume in an attempt to compensate for the visceral feeling which is completely missing with IEMs (or isn't it?) I also think that's the reason why headphone ads usually always consist of the single USP "having deep great bass", because average joe is used to the visceral impact from speakers and average joe wants his visceral impact.

 

Or, is it just one of those audiophile terms being tossed around? I'd be very careful using the term "visceral" unless I was positively sure the person I'm talking to have quite a bit of IEM experience. As a matter of fact, I've never used the term in the context of IEMs. So, is something wrong with my perception of sound, is the Shure SE846 a revolution in this field, or what's going on?
 

Well I dont really like to comment on this to much, but this is my experience with the frogbest c5 which is spec'd down to 6hz sometimes if I drift off into the music being played a bit loud the sub-bass (I presume) is felt all over my body but its quite random when I experience it and the first time it happened it freaked me out and I had to remove them from my ears. edit I use the apex glacier for this as the amp has spec of down to 0 hz.


Edited by fuzzy1969 - 5/12/13 at 11:32pm
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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › Shure SE846: A New In-Ear Flagship From Shure. Finally! (Impressions p26-28)