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Shure SE846: A New In-Ear Flagship From Shure. Finally! (Impressions p26-28) - Page 24

post #346 of 3042
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy1969 View Post

Shures main income is from microphones and studio stuff, they've been doing it since 1940's or 1950's, Sennheisser were there back then but moved into headphones and less microphones.


Yep, on the consumer end we know Shure for their earphones because that's what's targeted at us, but it's not what really pays the bills.

post #347 of 3042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

Uchitaihachi- yes, i have visited their HQ in Niles I'll. A HUGE 6 story building by about 300 ft long and wide. What you are saying isn't relevant. If the division fails it will go under. The previous post made it sound like " Shure is a big company and they can fund a flailing division cause they have money. Once you get out of school and into the real world you will see you how cut throat and competitive it is with profit and loss within divisions of companies.

That is exactly my point. Shure will not undertake such a 'gamble' of a project to kill off one of their profitable divisions. I never said they would fund a failing division (even thought, this often does happen). Merely that they are following a very calculated market strategy. Stepping into their main HQ has no relevance whatsoever, especially your point about being part of the 'real world', or do you magically absorb balance sheet information by visting the geographical location of a company? I have helped to formulate and execute many finance related statistical software and simulations, for retail companies as well as for Investment Banks like Goldman so I have indeed 'seen'. Furthermore, I never made a remark insinuating that the real world is not cut throat... In fact, it is for these calculated approaches to profit maximisation that this world is so cut throat....


Edited by uchihaitachi - 5/10/13 at 7:01pm
post #348 of 3042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post

 

Sorry - what has principle or ethics got to do with this at all?

 

Shure is selling a commercial product.  If they believe (and they obviously do - assuming they have put a lot of research into it) that their product is worth X amount (ie has the price:performance ratio to justify the purchase), then where does ethics or principle come into it?

 

We still have only 2 brief impressions from people who have tried the product.  How can anyone here make sweeping statements on ethics, principle, value or anything else - until:

[a] there are enough subjective impressions to suggest a trend OR

[b] they have heard the IEMs themselves?

 

Oh - and for the people who are complaining about eventual price - and using a "cost plus" mentality to make the calculation - IMO you really have no idea on commercial marketing (I work for an international company in sales and marketing).  People will pay what they perceive the product is worth.  Shure will have made some serious decisions based on this.  Eventual sales data over time will tell you whether they calculated correctly.

 

I personally will wait for impressions - and then try to make an informed decision.  If my perception is that the quality matches the price point, and I can afford them - I'll buy them.  If not - I won't.

 

The ethics bit was a joke for myself, the rest is completely valid.

 

I've repeated my point 4 or 5 times already. If what I'm saying hasn't clicked for you by now, then there's nothing I can do.

post #349 of 3042
I think Shure went higher priced for 2 reasons. They do not want to devalue the SE535 by pricing a new flagship to close to the price of 535. They also want to create an aura of value by pricing this flagship very high. The gamble for them will be if people who buy their product feel it is a game changer or not to justify the price. If all reviews are overwhelmingly positive then Shure will win, if not the price will drop so they can sell their product. AKG and Sennheiser both have taken the same gamble with their high end IEM's.

I think the negative comments in this thread stem from people frustrated with this strategy on principal. By Shure lovers who are disappointed they will not be able to afford this new flagship. By Shure detractors who feel Shure milked their 530/535 technology to long and are unsure of Shure's resolve to make a large stride forward in the industry.

Me? All I want is more actual impressions and reviews, LOL.
post #350 of 3042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post

 

 

Oh - and for the people who are complaining about eventual price - and using a "cost plus" mentality to make the calculation - IMO you really have no idea on commercial marketing (I work for an international company in sales and marketing).  People will pay what they perceive the product is worth.  Shure will have made some serious decisions based on this.  Eventual sales data over time will tell you whether they calculated correctly.

 

+1 My point is that Shure is not taking some blind uninformed gamble. They will have made serious decisions. 

post #351 of 3042
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

Again, you miss the point. 

It's not the price of this specific product, rather it's the principle. It's the fact that a major company like Shure has opted into the me-too $1K iem pricing philosophy, which is usually reserved for very niche items or small companies starting off...like Ocharaku or FitEar. 

An analogy:

Part of a mobster's business is loaning money, at a somewhat high interest rate. Up to this point everyone has paid back on time. He usually lends out amounts ranging from $500 to $5,000. One day, a man borrows just $50 from him. When the time of repayment comes around, the man is nowhere to be found. Upon a minor investigation, the mobster finds out that his debtor has been telling folks that he got away with ripping him off.

The mobster has two options here:

1) Write off the minor sum of $50 and forget about the issue, or

2) Curb stomp the debtor as an example to others who may try to follow his foot steps, thus preventing his business from collapsing.

Ethics 101, ladies and gents.

And your point of that analogy is what?
I think you have it backwards. A no name company like Fit Ear has elephant balls charging $1000 for an IEM. A well known reputable company like Shure can get away with it.
Analogy: just think Bose and what they charge. If Acme Electronics charged $400 for a clock radio would anyone buy it?
Edited by Spyro - 5/10/13 at 6:41pm
post #352 of 3042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post


And you point of that analogy is what?
I think you have it backwards. A no name company like Fit Ear has elephant balls charging $1000 for an IEM. A well known reputable company like Share can get away with it.
Analogy: just think Bose and what they charge. If Acme Electronics charged $400 for a clock radio would anyone buy it?

 

Have you not been reading my posts?!! tongue.gif

 

This is exactly what I'm saying. Shure is banking on their name to move their product. Next thing you know, Westone will be doing the same. They'll take the drivers from the W4, engrave some stuff on it, add in a few steel plates, and bam, $1K.

 

FitEar is a tiny company. They need to charge that much to keep up their profit margins.They can only produce a limited number of sets at a time, and it is a human resource intensive process. Hence, the prices.

 

I realize I'm being slightly facetious, but I hope this finally gets what I'm saying across. I'm done.

post #353 of 3042
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

 

Have you not been reading my posts?!! tongue.gif

 

This is exactly what I'm saying. Shure is banking on their name to move their product. Next thing you know, Westone will be doing the same. They'll take the drivers from the W4, engrave some stuff on it, add in a few steel plates, and bam, $1K.

 

FitEar is a tiny company. They need to charge that much to keep up their profit margins.They can only produce a limited number of sets at a time, and it is a human resource intensive process. Hence, the prices.

 

I realize I'm being slightly facetious, but I hope this finally gets what I'm saying across. I'm done.

Lol, some people don't really get humorous comments on head-fi.... 

post #354 of 3042
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

Have you not been reading my posts?!! tongue.gif


This is exactly what I'm saying. Shure is banking on their name to move their product. Next thing you know, Westone will be doing the same. They'll take the drivers from the W4, engrave some stuff on it, add in a few steel plates, and bam, $1K.

FitEar is a tiny company. They need to charge that much to keep up their profit margins.They can only produce a limited number of sets at a time, and it is a human resource intensive process. Hence, the prices.

I realize I'm being slightly facetious, but I hope this finally gets what I'm saying across. I'm done.

Okay, I see what you are saying now. Yes, valid point.
post #355 of 3042

For $1000, I think I would rather just get some custom IEMs.

post #356 of 3042
For those complaining about all the rhetoric with only 2 impressions posts. That's okay, just skip the thead or just check in every few days. Allow the rest to bloviate. Its good entertainment.
post #357 of 3042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

Uchitaihachi- yes, i have visited their HQ in Niles I'll. A HUGE 6 story building by about 300 ft long and wide. What you are saying isn't relevant. If the division fails it will go under. The previous post made it sound like " Shure is a big company and they can fund a flailing division cause they have money. Once you get out of school and into the real world you will see you how cut throat and competitive it is with profit and loss within divisions of companies.

Spyro usually you are the voice of reason but this time I must respectfully disagree. As an M&A attorney I have seen a lot of unprofitable divisions subsidized by profitable ones in a corporation. General Electic is a great example. In some years almost all of the the profits come from GE Capital. NBC almost always lost millions a quarter. It is why conglomerates are horrible ideas and yet they persist in the corporate world. Why does it happen? Answer the boss loves running bigger companies instead of returning the profits to the shareholders. As a M&A attorney that it what keeps me employed.
post #358 of 3042
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

 

Well, hopefully this won't turn into a "customs vs universals" thread, or a "high-end customs vs high-end universals" thread.

While there are indeed many new customs start-ups, it's also true that the customs craze isn't quite what it was 1-2 years ago. On the other hand, these days you also get pretty cheap customs, so the possible disappointment for people who opt for these cheaper customs isn't nearly as hard-hitting as it was only a few years back.

When I started the (now locked) "Are (High-end) Custom IEMs Overrated?" thread 4 years ago, I got several PMs from people who would tell me in private of their own horror stories, or simply that they were underwhelmed, but said they would not post their genuine thoughts for a number of reasons, namely they wanted to sell their customs (usually at a huge loss) and didn't want to openly say their customs weren't quite what they'd hoped they'd be.

Take, for instance, the Future Sonics MG6Pro: Not many Head-fiers own these customs, yet I know 5/6 people who were very disappointed with the sonics of this $1,000 pair of customs, yet none of these owners posted their genuine thoughts on the MG6 Pro thread; they might have said a thing or two here and there, or merely hinting they regretted their purchase, but never openly said what they said to me in private or what I saw written in other non-MG6Pro threads. If you visit the dedicated MG6 Pro thread and read the whole thing, you'll mostly (95%?) find glowing impressions. This, btw, is one custom IEM that has zero re-sale value as it cannot be re-shelled.

I got PMs about not so great experiences with JH Audio, 1964 Ears, UM, UE re SQ, poor QC, CS, multiple re-fits, shipping charges, long wait times, or simply being underwhelmed by the not so spectacular sonics these people had come to expect. There's more even.

Yes, ideally, one should do (quite) a bit of research, but it often proves an almost impossible task with soooo many threads, many of which are exceedingly long with endless irrelevant posts, and mostly populated by fanboys of guardians of their favourite toy. Yet, even when we haven't had a clear, balanced, accurate picture of the negative aspects of customs, it seems that even those not so few reported cases have had an impact / influence as more people seem to be aware of the fact that customs aren't necessarily the answer to great sound in IEMs.

The fact we're seeing more and more customs turned universals already says something of the changes in the customs craze trend I spoke about earlier. Only today the German-made Stage Diver SD-3 went on sale for about $550 here in Europe.

I'm sure you and many others get goose bumps with their customs, but many, many people also get goose bumps with their $100 / $200 / $500 / $1,000+ universals.

 

 

I know it's not only about earning since there are people who will easily spend £200 on a meal or a night out, a piece of clothing, etc.

 

 

Yes, like I said in my previous post when I spoke about people exaggerating the sonic merits of their customs: "... sometimes said exaggeration is simply the result of a different sound signature, much like many sound sigs found on cheap / expensive universals"

More customs are sold today than 2 years ago and a few anecdotes don't make a universal wink_face.gif truth but keep up the good anti custom fight. Larger work forces, more makers, along with longer waits should tell you all you need to know.

 

Lots, like reviews of ones own IEM is exaggerated by bias on headfi as you are displaying your anti custom bias as well. Most with a properly fit top custom have listened to top universals though the opposite is rarely the case. Perspective is easily skewed. As for problems, squeaky wheels are the ones you notice. I would dislike MG6s as well. So guess what? I didn't buy them. No one said every custom is better than every universal. It's more than coincidental that the most respected IEM reviewer's favs are customs but I doubt they look upon it as a universal truth as you do the opposite. Perhaps they'll all like the Shure better. Don't know and don't really care because I'm happy and don't have an axe to grind.

 

 Now back to the product at hand that none of us have a sonic clue about. May be the best thing ever made. I don't see this as an either/or proposition for most folks. Universals will continue to dominate the market. No need to continue the anti custom crusade. You won before you started.


Edited by goodvibes - 5/10/13 at 7:32pm
post #359 of 3042
Because less than 10 as2 are out there, including two with apparent tweeter problems. The overall investment is not comparable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

True, but if they were able to do it at the (already vastly overpriced, performance wise) SE535's price range, why can't it be done again...even for a little more. I've already done the (mostly assumptive) calculations. They'd need to sell under 22,000 units to make back every penny at this price. I'm sure they can do that in the US alone, and that isn't even their biggest market.

Our mutual friend Dale manufactured his AS-2s using custom BAs, plus a bunch of other proprietary technology. Why doesn't he charge $1K for the ASG-2?

All the same, I don't think there are many more constructive arguments I can contribute before really starting to be whiny.



I'm so glad you're back.
post #360 of 3042

so interesting, also for price

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