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Shure SE846: A New In-Ear Flagship From Shure. Finally! (Impressions p26-28) - Page 22

post #316 of 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post


I call them my friends.

People are more OK with $100 thanks to Bose, at least where I am. $150 is the insanity line now.

Yup,  some guys have $10,000 in guns, photography, hunting or fishing gear.....we just like audio.  wink.gif

post #317 of 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post

Mass produced items of any kind require markedly greater start up costs than fulfill and go, low volume products. These start up costs require large sums cash or debt to initiate. The profit isn't realized until months or years down the road. A minimum quantity must be built and sold before the first dollar is made. Budgets created, contracts signed, parts ordered, warehouse space leased, equipment purchased and installed, vendors trained, marketing materials bought and distributed, shippers contracted and employees salaries and health care and taxes paid. There is no magic mass produced light switch that is flipped for instant profit and lucrative revenues. It's a calculated gamble, a risk taken in a volatile and flooded market. Then there are those head-fi guys on the Internet to deal with. They can be a surly crowd. Time to hire a social networking PR staff. Are we raking in the dollars hand over fist yet?

 

True, but if they were able to do it at the (already vastly overpriced, performance wise) SE535's price range, why can't it be done again...even for a little more. I've already done the (mostly assumptive) calculations. They'd need to sell under 22,000 units to make back every penny at this price. I'm sure they can do that in the US alone, and that isn't even their biggest market.

 

Our mutual friend Dale manufactured his AS-2s using custom BAs, plus a bunch of other proprietary technology. Why doesn't he charge $1K for the ASG-2?

 

All the same, I don't think there are many more constructive arguments I can contribute before really starting to be whiny.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

 

 

I'm so glad you're back.


Edited by eke2k6 - 5/10/13 at 3:32pm
post #318 of 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy1969 View Post

"Hand made products by a work force of 10 people? That's justifiable. Shure has no excuse in this regard."

 

Someone else who hasn't looked at the design, and no its probably not possible buy hand, Im talking about the laser etched steel plate low pass filter, I see a lot of boring whining about the price on this thread for a design which is a first as I havn't seen it before and also probable custom designed sonion BA's, theres some serious R&D in this and the only company thats been around as long as shure is sennheiser and shure dont do many headphones, this is a long time recording instrument company upping the game (hopefully).

 

I think his "hand made" comment is for "Fitear ToGo334" not SE846. Fitear have the total workforce not more than 50 people for all their product line from CIEMs to UIEMs. 

 

For the R&D cost, I think that shure put a lot of effort in that low pass filter design and it should cost a lot. 1k USD is reasonable price but definitely will sell at cheaper when the time pass.

post #319 of 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

To think there are people out there that think it is truly  INSANE  to spend even $100 on an earphone.....LOL!!!

 

For those who find it hard to earn $100 perhaps even $50 is insane—truly insane—, immature, irresponsible… perhaps even a sin (if they're religious).


Edited by music_4321 - 5/10/13 at 3:23pm
post #320 of 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

eke,

This is how I see it: The problem is not so much whether Shure chooses to charge $1,000 or $2,000 for this product but, like with many other very expensive products, it's the fact that people will want it, so in the case of the SE846 we have all the buzz now… and when the hype is in full swing… Already this thread (started only 2 days ago) has 20,000 views (!).

You speak of a trend where manufacturers are now charging astronomical sums for these products — true, but, but, BUT, by the same token, there are now plenty of $50-$200 IEMs that are delivering fantastic sonics — hey, the new £25 EarPods (by that most awful company known as Apple) sound great to these ears, have excellent build quality, a very flexible, durable & absolutely non-microphonic cable, and are more comfortable than most IEMs I own, and certainly healthier for the ears than most non-vented (mostly BA-based) IEMs because the ears can breathe (!); yes, they don't isolate, but that's the nature of canal phones. But hey, it's Apple and only £25 (or less) — ie if you're a 'true' head-fier / audiophile, you've got to hate Apple, bash Apple's earbuds, Beats, Bose, etc.

Now, at least the customs madness / craze has gone down quite a bit after quite a few horror stories and the fact that more and more people also started reporting that the sonic merits of customs weren't quite what they thought they were — but you still get plenty of exaggeration, hype, expectation bias, etc., and sometimes said exaggeration is simply the result of a different sound signature, much like many sound sigs found on cheap / expensive universals. Customs may still be the best option for some, but they clearly aren't for many — many people still ignore quite a few downsides about customs.

Now, look at all the attention the $500 made-in-Japan EX1000 got (originally priced at $800 in Japan), while its $150 made-in-Thailand EX600 sibling didn't get even half of it, and naturally so when people often described the sonic differences between both models as being massive, when in actual fact the differences were VERY small and even the Japanese-made EX1000's housings had build issues not found on the Thailand-made EX600 (!). I've mentioned before how great-sounding the FI-BA-SB is, yet all the attention seems to always go to the much more expensive FI-BA-SS.

 

Now, look at all those veeeery expensive aftermarket cables, some costing $500+ / $1,000+; I still remember many describing the EX1000 cable as vastly superior sonically to the EX600 cable when, in fact, there were no real audible sonic differences between both cables.

Only today someone had this to say about the $1,300 ($1,500 in Europe) AKG K3003 they auditioned: "In a direct comparison I actually preferred the JVC FXD70 over the K3003. This is an in-ear you can get for 50 USD from Japan. The cable on the FXD70 felt better and the build quality about the same." That's not to say the poster is right or wrong, but simply that to him the K3003s weren't even as good as his $50 JVCs.

No matter how many times one states that there is something very, very real known as "the law of diminishing returns", the fact remains that many people will still prefer to ignore said fact / law, go with the hype, the marketing and all the (often obscure) audio jargon that goes with it that so impresses many (and not just noobs). Then there's also something known as snake oil... or things like "If you have X phone, you've got to listen to lossless files", when what matters most is the actual recording / mastering quality of the music more than the bitrate.

 

And there's more......

Quite a few people reporting and custom craze subsiding doesn't really Jive. The number of new customs to reach the market that need to be supported would also indicate it's ever increasing. People need to do better research before buying a custom and not get caught up in a custom of the moment.

 

Law of diminishing returns is always in effect when spending above the minimum acceptable product but the cost of goose bumps is a tough nut to fathom at times. Target is different for everyone and fortunately we have enough products to meet virtually everyone. It's not about which is better or biasing which should be favored but which is better for an individual. I'm Shure plenty will find it to be the se846. Personally I'm done and very happy with my custom.

post #321 of 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

 

For those who find it hard to earn $100 perhaps even $50 is insane—truly insane—, immature, irresponsible… perhaps even a sin (if they're religious).

 

It's not only about earning. My friend will shake her head at me and then go buy a $400 paid of shoes. I tell her "they look as good as mine sound," and we have a good laugh about it.

post #322 of 3040

if this new price trend is happening with uiems it will eventually happen too with ciems so im guessing new custom flagships will start around 2.5k?

post #323 of 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

 

5 years ago, would you have believed it if someone told you that there'd be mass produced iems costing so much money?

 

Sure, for the same reason why there's so much great stuff on the low end now (or at any price bracket) - the market is that much larger, probably an order of magnitude both in # of products and # of consumers.

 

My take on this mostly is that Shure took notice of the AKG 3003 and thought they could do one better in that market segment, esp. considering they're both pro audio companies but Shure is well established in the IEM market. If it's not terribly profitable on its own then it may pay dividends as a halo product for newer or updated lower tier offerings.   That said I am a bit surprised they didn't make the build quality/cable seem more premium.


Edited by bobeau - 5/10/13 at 3:35pm
post #324 of 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by m0nask8 View Post

if this new price trend is happening with uiems it will eventually happen too with ciems so im guessing new custom flagships will start around 2.5k?

 

I believe FitEar has product in that price range...

post #325 of 3040

music_4321: You make good points. Regarding the K3003 comment: what it boils down to is that no matter how "good" an IEMs, if someone doesn't like the sound signature, it's not going to be "good" for them. JVC, for example, has a similar concept with their new line, resulting in amazing bass, but, for me at least, the overall balance doesn't suit the music I like. I'm going to guess the SE846 is going to give me a similar result.

post #326 of 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtthefirst View Post

 

I think his "hand made" comment is for "Fitear ToGo334" not SE846. Fitear have the total workforce not more than 50 people for all their product line from CIEMs to UIEMs. 

 

For the R&D cost, I think that shure put a lot of effort in that low pass filter design and it should cost a lot. 1k USD is reasonable price but definitely will sell at cheaper when the time pass.

I dont think shure have a huge workforce for headphones, they dont manufacturer them like sennheiser do, but its all relative terms the 846 was unleased in asia for demo and shures bread and butter is microphones.

post #327 of 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

 

And that's  a damn shame

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaffeemann View Post

^ No, that's capitalism.
 


            ^ No, that's called highway robbery. It's also the reason why everything has been such a mess lately but here's not the place to discuss economics and greed.

 

Eke and music1234 have made some very valid points. Aside from that, if you choose to pay 1000 bones for a product that could/should be sold for say anywhere from 5 to 750 be my guest. I'm just here wondering about the cool tech and what the final sound signature is like so why should I care.

 

Bless

 

(goes back into shadow mode and returns to quietly reading thread)


Edited by DigitalFreak - 5/10/13 at 4:52pm
post #328 of 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post

Quite a few people reporting and custom craze subsiding doesn't really Jive. The number of new customs to reach the market that need to be supported would also indicate it's ever increasing. People need to do better research before buying a custom and not get caught up in a custom of the moment.

 

Law of diminishing returns is always in effect when spending above the minimum acceptable product but the cost of goose bumps is a tough nut to fathom at times. Target is different for everyone and fortunately we have enough products to meet virtually everyone. It's not about which is better or biasing which should be favored but which is better for an individual. I'm Shure plenty will find it to be the se846. Personally I'm done and very happy with my custom.

 

Well, hopefully this won't turn into a "customs vs universals" thread, or a "high-end customs vs high-end universals" thread.

While there are indeed many new customs start-ups, it's also true that the customs craze isn't quite what it was 1-2 years ago. On the other hand, these days you also get pretty cheap customs, so the possible disappointment for people who opt for these cheaper customs isn't nearly as hard-hitting as it was only a few years back.

When I started the (now locked) "Are (High-end) Custom IEMs Overrated?" thread 4 years ago, I got several PMs from people who would tell me in private of their own horror stories, or simply that they were underwhelmed, but said they would not post their genuine thoughts for a number of reasons, namely they wanted to sell their customs (usually at a huge loss) and didn't want to openly say their customs weren't quite what they'd hoped they'd be.

Take, for instance, the Future Sonics MG6Pro: Not many Head-fiers own these customs, yet I know 5/6 people who were very disappointed with the sonics of this $1,000 pair of customs, yet none of these owners posted their genuine thoughts on the MG6 Pro thread; they might have said a thing or two here and there, or merely hinting they regretted their purchase, but never openly said what they said to me in private or what I saw written in other non-MG6Pro threads. If you visit the dedicated MG6 Pro thread and read the whole thing, you'll mostly (95%?) find glowing impressions. This, btw, is one custom IEM that has zero re-sale value as it cannot be re-shelled.

I got PMs about not so great experiences with JH Audio, 1964 Ears, UM, UE re SQ, poor QC, CS, multiple re-fits, shipping charges, long wait times, or simply being underwhelmed by the not so spectacular sonics these people had come to expect. There's more even.

Yes, ideally, one should do (quite) a bit of research, but it often proves an almost impossible task with soooo many threads, many of which are exceedingly long with endless irrelevant posts, and mostly populated by fanboys of guardians of their favourite toy. Yet, even when we haven't had a clear, balanced, accurate picture of the negative aspects of customs, it seems that even those not so few reported cases have had an impact / influence as more people seem to be aware of the fact that customs aren't necessarily the answer to great sound in IEMs.

The fact we're seeing more and more customs turned universals already says something of the changes in the customs craze trend I spoke about earlier. Only today the German-made Stage Diver SD-3 went on sale for about $550 here in Europe.

I'm sure you and many others get goose bumps with their customs, but many, many people also get goose bumps with their $100 / $200 / $500 / $1,000+ universals.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post

 

It's not only about earning. My friend will shake her head at me and then go buy a $400 paid of shoes. I tell her "they look as good as mine sound," and we have a good laugh about it.

 

I know it's not only about earning since there are people who will easily spend £200 on a meal or a night out, a piece of clothing, etc.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post

music_4321: You make good points. Regarding the K3003 comment: what it boils down to is that no matter how "good" an IEMs, if someone doesn't like the sound signature, it's not going to be "good" for them. JVC, for example, has a similar concept with their new line, resulting in amazing bass, but, for me at least, the overall balance doesn't suit the music I like. I'm going to guess the SE846 is going to give me a similar result.

 

Yes, like I said in my previous post when I spoke about people exaggerating the sonic merits of their customs: "... sometimes said exaggeration is simply the result of a different sound signature, much like many sound sigs found on cheap / expensive universals"


Edited by music_4321 - 5/10/13 at 4:57pm
post #329 of 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post

 


            ^ No, that's called highway robbery. 

 

No one is forcing you to buy anything.  I wish you econtards would quit derailing the thread with crap posts.

post #330 of 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

 

For those who find it hard to earn $100 perhaps even $50 is insane—truly insane—, immature, irresponsible… perhaps even a sin (if they're religious).

 

I don't follow you and I hope I am reading your post wrong.  Not really sure what your post has to do with mine?  Just because a person makes decent money doesn't mean they would see ANY value in a $100 earphone?  Please elaborate before I jump to a conclusion.  Or PM me since it is a sidebar comment.


Edited by Spyro - 5/10/13 at 5:07pm
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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › Shure SE846: A New In-Ear Flagship From Shure. Finally! (Impressions p26-28)