or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › Shure SE846: A New In-Ear Flagship From Shure. Finally! (Impressions p26-28)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Shure SE846: A New In-Ear Flagship From Shure. Finally! (Impressions p26-28) - Page 132

post #1966 of 3180

Quote:
Originally Posted by myap2328 View Post

You c, actually, I tried the demo 846 using the same setup with the treble filters and it was like perfect balance to my ears but now bass is lacking and the stock cable is horribly stiff n uncomfortable.

 

Comfort issue aside, I find the stock cable to give the best balance in sound.

 

The demo 846 is attached to the Arete cable?

post #1967 of 3180
Quote:
Originally Posted by myap2328 View Post

Have been using the SE846 for a week or so and apparently the amount of bass is much much lesser than the demo set. I'm currently using them with a mid-focused cable, the null audio Arete and a dark/Bassy amp, the national. I'm really hoping the bass would open up soon.

Why not try the black(bass) filter? I have found that SE846 with the balanced filters has plenty of bass but that the bass is dependent on the recording as it should be not the IEM.

For example listen to Dazed and Confused by Led Zeppelin from the Definitive Collection and tell me your bass is gone. Or for a modern example try Open Car by Porcupine Tree from Deadwing
Edited by spook76 - 8/30/13 at 7:00pm
post #1968 of 3180
Quote:
Originally Posted by uelover View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by myap2328 View Post

You c, actually, I tried the demo 846 using the same setup with the treble filters and it was like perfect balance to my ears but now bass is lacking and the stock cable is horribly stiff n uncomfortable.

Comfort issue aside, I find the stock cable to give the best balance in sound.

The demo 846 is attached to the Arete cable?

Somewhat, I asked for them to be attached to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spook76 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by myap2328 View Post

Have been using the SE846 for a week or so and apparently the amount of bass is much much lesser than the demo set. I'm currently using them with a mid-focused cable, the null audio Arete and a dark/Bassy amp, the national. I'm really hoping the bass would open up soon.

Why not try the black(bass) filter? I have found that SE846 with the balanced filters has plenty of bass but that the bass is dependent on the recording as it should be not the IEM.

For example listen to Dazed and Confused by Led Zeppelin from the Definitive Collection and tell me your bass is gone. Or for a modern example try Open Car by Porcupine Tree from Deadwing

My point is actually the demo set is IMO different from my set. Dunno what's going on but will continue running them in and see how it goes.
post #1969 of 3180
Quote:
Originally Posted by myap2328 View Post


Somewhat, I asked for them to be attached to it.
My point is actually the demo set is IMO different from my set. Dunno what's going on but will continue running them in and see how it goes.

Same filter? burned in? same sources and amps and cables?

post #1970 of 3180
Quote:
Originally Posted by myap2328 View Post

You c, actually, I tried the demo 846 using the same setup with the treble filters and it was like perfect balance to my ears but now bass is lacking and the stock cable is horribly stiff n uncomfortable.

I have the same impression with you. Actually i find out the white filter is more balanced. But lacking bass and its fine for me. The problem is..it also less the spaciousness and fullness. The body of the sound seems shrinking a bit which i don't like. So i go back using the blue one. I have not tried the blackfilter because i feel like the blue one is already plenty of warmth and more than enough bass qty for me.
post #1971 of 3180

I have no problem with your using your own earbuds or amps as a reference, meaning in your world, it is the reference. Excuse however those of us if you will,  who had spent years in studios, on stage playing, writing about music and reviewing audio equipment for calling for "a standard" other than your or another's choice of playback equipment which can never retain the title of a standard. Meaning live music in a real hall, to which ALL other humans can relate. The alternative that you are suggesting is that we all use your standard, or another's standard, your choice of earbuds or another's choice of DAC.  None of which can meet the standards required of a standard - a ruler if you will. Something that doesn't change once the venue, instrument, and musician has been agreed to. Accordingly, live sound cannot be replaced by one man's choice of what he believes a standard should be. That kind of man might believe that a transfer function analyzer or scope should measure electrical characteristics as each brand comes up with a different result. Each brand then becomes its own ruler; its own measure. An inch measured with one ruler may calculate 0.9 inches; with another ruler you get 1.1 inches, both rulers claim to represent a genuine inch. To suggest that any equipment can be a "standard" permanently is to suggest that a ruler be made of a rubber band.

 

While it can be argued that most recordings have no bearing vis-a-vis the live experience, as JA does for good reasons and with reservations, some recordings DO have a bearing on live music; many records do; and regardless, that fact does not change the need for a steady and accurate ruler, a measure, the standard by which those recordings and the equipment they play back are evaluated. One can for example record a single live instrument right in between two speakers (the monitors) and evaluate the recording and the equipment that plays it back in the same room (and in the same acoustics) in real time. At that point in time you can argue if you wish, whether or not the recording has a bearing on reality or the quality of the system.

 

In other words, as in most things in life, everything is so, unless it isn't.

 

The true test of any equipment - because we are playing back recording on, equipment of one or another kind - is its faithfulness to the mic feed behind which is a live musician (meaning the microphone "hears" differently from the human ear that is usually in another location.) Put another way, one CAN, use monitors (speakers or headsets) to evaluate CHANGES to the sound from the live mic feed with respect to other playback equipment, using the imperfect monitors (and all are imperfect theoretically) to evaluate changes from the live sound. We can also substitute monitors or different makes to make a similar test.

 

Let's take a good analog recorder and a good digital recorder, and our test will be to determine which is more faithful to the mic feed. Easy enough, no? One of them will be audibly and measurably more accurate: differences heard from your recording v. playing back the line/mic feed directly. You should hear, or be able to measure some, possibly very slight, difference between the mic feed and the recording...the mic feed being "live." You cannot test the same two recordings, one feeding a BOSE and another feeding a BBC monitor while one is being driven by one amp and the other by another amp.

 

Because at this point we are not listening to the live sound directly with our ears, but through the monitors, we are not hearing the live sound, only the closest sound to the live - the mic/line feed. Because BOTH components under test (analog and digital recorders) had recorded the same "live" sound now played back through the same monitor, we can, or should be able to, hear the differences between the two recorders we are testing. In other words, the live sound is the standard by which we have access by walking a few steps into the studio or listening through calibrated monitors; and for short term memory it works well enough.

 

However, if we wanted to test which recorder is the better recorder, more faithfully having recorded what we had just heard live in the studio, we cannot use the recordings themselves, one against the other, and call one the standard and the other a failure. Neither one can become the standard. We still have to return to the live sound playing in the studio for the standard against which we make a judgement. What we can determine is which of the two recordings, using the same mic, is CLOSER to the live sound, making at this point in time, arguably, a temporary equipment standard against which other similar components may be judged.

 

For a time that is, until a better prospect for a new standard comes along that provides greater transparency to the source (less character that can be attributed only to the DUT - the device under test.)

 

These tests need to be repeated over and over ad infinitum, because technology moves forward and the earbuds you prefer today have already been superseded by newer and better designs. And that, is the reason you will always need a standard that can never be superseded - live sound played in a real room, a ruler that will not stretch or bend.

 

That piano or saxophone played by the same musicians in the same room will sound pretty much the same tomorrow and next year. The earbud you prefer also will sound more or less the same, but a better earbud will sound closer to that piano and that musician in that room today and tomorrow. The new earbud is not going to be designed to match your preference for brand, cosmetics, or frame of mind. It will be designed precisely how I explained above, first by electrical testing and manipulation, second by listening to music, not your earbuds.

 

You can now ask me if I care what John Atkinson wrote.


Edited by AGB100 - 8/30/13 at 8:43pm
post #1972 of 3180
Quote:
Originally Posted by AGB100 View Post

As one who had spent a couple of decades as a professional reviewer, I might add that most people will always prefer a tilted up toward the brilliance region speaker or headset over a neutral one. Neutral or natural are terms often incorrectly interchanged. The neutral transducer will leave many underwhelmed, they so expect "more." More of this coloration or more of that.

 

An interesting phenomenon. Nevertheless, entirely true and supported by the literature and demo showroom sales around the world.

 

That isn't true at all. I don't know what literature you refer to or what biased demo showrooms' results demonstrate your hypothesis but countless research papers from AES indicate otherwise for both speakers and headphones. The most recent ones being Harman Lab's Sean Olive's work.

 

http://seanolive.blogspot.kr/2012/11/behind-harmans-testing-lab.html

http://seanolive.blogspot.kr/2009/04/dishonesty-of-sighted-audio-product.html


Edited by uchihaitachi - 8/30/13 at 8:37pm
post #1973 of 3180
I agree uchihaitachi. A lot of music is NEVER recorded by a band together at one time but over many months in different places. There is no magic moment when one can hear it live. With processors and overdubs added later and assembled by the recording engineer with the imput of the band. So where are we to find the "ruler"?

Hence why Alan Parsons is considered a member of Pink Floyd as he was the recording engineer on Dark Side of the Moon.
post #1974 of 3180
Quote:
Originally Posted by AGB100 View Post

You can now ask me if I care what John Atkinson wrote.

Dude, this makes so little sense to me I can't even begin to describe. What if I like club music (and I do)? I suppose I must listen through the latest beats that the dj likes in order to get his sound? And if you love live music it just boggles my mind that your definition of that is the mic feed.

For your own enjoyment perhaps it's time to quit head-fi and go to live-fi.org or even better, mic-fi.org. I can imagine you and your fellow forumers having a field day discussing if the position of the mic (dead center? behind? on top? left? right?) improves or reduces sound. Its a bit strange to imagine how a musicians's single mic feed might capture the soundstage of a concert hall but naturally thats why the forum exists- for your endless discussion. You'll also no doubt have debates about how well the musicians executed the vision of the songwriter (in your lexicon, whether they performed a 1.1 inch, 0.9 inch, or- the holy grail- a perfect 1 inch faithful production of the original), hence the eventual petition and movement to set up the more purist music-scores.org.

Before you leave head-fi though do drop by the counter of postmodernism and understand why some may think objectivism makes no sense, and perhaps then you'll start to catch up with the rest of the philosophical world before you lay more crazy crap on other poor souls.
Edited by jelt2359 - 8/30/13 at 9:17pm
post #1975 of 3180
Quote:
Originally Posted by AGB100 View Post


TL;DR
post #1976 of 3180
Quote:
Originally Posted by AGB100 View Post
 

 

The solution: Use UERM.

post #1977 of 3180

To get back on topic, I am enjoying the SE846 even more than yesterday, and think the treble filter makes them sound best. They still sound slightly warm with very punchy bass, but relatively neutral with tons of resolution and great imaging. I find the blue filter to make it sound a bit too warm to be accurate (it is forgiving with older recordings though).

 

I wasn't sure the "Shure" would beat out the K3003i's, but I finally compared them this afternoon at home.. I prefer the Shures as an overall product/package, and they sound better in most scenarios as well. My inexperience with high end iem's tells me the SE846 is a ever-so-slightly more accurate LCD3 whereas the K3003i's are a slightly bassier and more intimate HD800. The HD800 is the best headphone in my collection, and my preference over the LCD3; but with an iem, I'd prefer the extra musicality vs accuracy. To me, iem's need to sound more fun and musical as I mainly use them when commuting and longboarding.

 

This all being said, they're definitely not on the level of my HD800/HE6 and previous LCD3's; but it's pretty darn fun having such good sound in the pocket of your shorts!

post #1978 of 3180
Quote:
Originally Posted by dleblanc343 View Post

To get back on topic, I am enjoying the SE846 even more than yesterday, and think the treble filter makes them sound best. They still sound slightly warm with very punchy bass, but relatively neutral with tons of resolution and great imaging. I find the blue filter to make it sound a bit too warm to be accurate (it is forgiving with older recordings though).

I wasn't sure the "Shure" would beat out the K3003i's, but I finally compared them this afternoon at home.. I prefer the Shures as an overall product/package, and they sound better in most scenarios as well. My inexperience with high end iem's tells me the SE846 is a ever-so-slightly more accurate LCD3 whereas the K3003i's are a slightly bassier and more intimate HD800. The HD800 is the best headphone in my collection, and my preference over the LCD3; but with an iem, I'd prefer the extra musicality vs accuracy. To me, iem's need to sound more fun and musical as I mainly use them when commuting and longboarding.

This all being said, they're definitely not on the level of my HD800/HE6 and previous LCD3's; but it's pretty darn fun having such good sound in the pocket of your shorts!

The treble filter did improve the clarity quite a bit for me but I really need my bass for my electronic tracks so I think I can only hope the bass open up enough for me to use the treble filters.
post #1979 of 3180
Quote:
Originally Posted by myap2328 View Post

The treble filter did improve the clarity quite a bit for me but I really need my bass for my electronic tracks so I think I can only hope the bass open up enough for me to use the treble filters.
Try a combo of filter & tip rolling.
post #1980 of 3180
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by myap2328 View Post

The treble filter did improve the clarity quite a bit for me but I really need my bass for my electronic tracks so I think I can only hope the bass open up enough for me to use the treble filters.
Try a combo of filter & tip rolling.

Foam tips just mess up the clarity really bad, attempted to use it quite a number of types already but I just can't stand the massive drop in clarity. I can try rolling different silicon/rubber tips though.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › Shure SE846: A New In-Ear Flagship From Shure. Finally! (Impressions p26-28)