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Schiit Bifrost Uber Analog Upgrade - Page 21

post #301 of 1154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grado77 View Post

No worries.....my old eyes have been seeing another "t" in there.....B-I-F-R-O-S-T.......yep, that looks better for sure eek.gif

I've been doing the same thing for weeks now! Haha! Someone finally corrected me today!
post #302 of 1154
Enough analytical listening over the last month. I'm sick of it--here are my uber impressions and opinions. Since I didn't have the original BF and uber BF at the same time, I've used my Dragonfly as a reference to both, along with my shaky sonic memory.

Uber is an improvement across the board as follows:

1. Dynamic swings (between loud & soft) are more realistic. Attack has more impact & seems faster(?).

2. Transparency is improved. One more dirty pane of glass has been removed.

3. Truer timbre and texture. I sense the improvement when a cymbal is ticked or a key struck. "Touch" and "feel" are there and are realistic. This is a very hard characteristic to describe in words, but I know when it's there. (As the judge said, I can't define pornography, but know it when I see it)

I do not find MAJOR changes in the Bifrost personality or at either end of the frequency range. (If I did, wouldn't the first version be wrong?)

These differences hold whether listening to my "up front & lively" Valhalla/Grado Rs1i or more laid back Stax SRM1/MK2 driving various Stax cans.

Now, I'm backed up with new albums (nice problem), so it's time to listen to music.
post #303 of 1154

+1 on being sick of analytical listening.

 

My Bifrost has opened up, and I am finally starting to enjoy the music.

post #304 of 1154
Quote:
Originally Posted by AiDee View Post

Like any product with a niche, specialist market, dacs reach insane prices, well above 10k. Which I think was Jason's point, IIRC...that the same quality levels could be reached much more cheaply.

Evidently there's a lot of innovative thought and design behind how Mike and Jason are achieving this though. These aren't merely the 'same' products built more cheaply.

 

What you're paying for in the Yggdrasil is the research and development, not a piece of hardware. if you just paid for raw parts and labor of assembly it would probably be around 300-400.

 

You also have to factor in overhead of employees (salary, benefits, etc), insurance to cover all their on site stock, equipment, and employee injuries, property (lease, mortgage), and equipment to (print PCBs, build chassis, etc.).

 

And the last driving factor of price is the sales forecast, if they know they're going to sell thousands of units, the price would drop a bit. But for a niche market, to cover all the costs mentioned above, the price would go up significantly.

post #305 of 1154
Quote:
Originally Posted by mab1376 View Post

 

What you're paying for in the Yggdrasil is the research and development, not a piece of hardware. if you just paid for raw parts and labor of assembly it would probably be around 300-400.

 

You also have to factor in overhead of employees (salary, benefits, etc), insurance to cover all their on site stock, equipment, and employee injuries, property (lease, mortgage), and equipment to (print PCBs, build chassis, etc.).

 

And the last driving factor of price is the sales forecast, if they know they're going to sell thousands of units, the price would drop a bit. But for a niche market, to cover all the costs mentioned above, the price would go up significantly.

Absolutely.  While plenty of people can benefit from a Magni or Modi, or be attracted to an Asgard or Bifrost, the customer base shrinks dramatically the higher you go.  It's clear that Jason and Mike (two guys with undeniable credentials at their previous employers) have spent a lot of time designing something really special in the statement amps.  None of that R&D time produced revenue, so they have to push it to the sales.  Of course, some in hi-fi throw an insane premium because there are people in lucrative industries (or whose parents are in lucrative industries) who can't wait to have bragging rights.  But the $1200-1500 range is where we're seeing the best stuff in DACs anyhow; this is competitive!  Frankly, I can't wait to see the details.

post #306 of 1154
+1 azteca x
post #307 of 1154

Another mini review of the Bifrost Uber upgrade.  I did it myself in about 15 minutes a few days ago.  My Bifrost has been running 24/7 in an office audiophile music server system playing ambient music for over a year.

 

Better perceived frequency response, top and bottom.  Better bass presence.  Better clarity, more air in the upper frequencies, better imaging characteristics, and better micro dynamics.  This is from a few days of constant hours on the burn-in so I expect it will probably improve significantly in coming days.  I do believe in burn-in but I also believe the brain has a way of compensating for inadequacies in our aging, dimming senses, that we get use to what we sense, and the possibility of a placebo effect.  I have been periodically sitting here across from this sound system and suddenly become aware of hearing a surprising difference.

 

The whole DAC is very well designed, but I would like to see a better quality S/PDIF receiver, although the CS8416 is a proper fit to the DAC.  Bifrost could have used a S/PDIF module with receiver options based on a user's need, like an option for RCA or BNC and an alternative spec such as a more limited 24/96 resolution but with better performance in a proven receiver.  All that would have added to the cost of producing the Bifrost.  I don't need/use a USB module (yet) but I expect the gen 2 USB is probably a significant upgrade for those using the older USB module.  The CM6631A receiver will provide an additional performance enhancement over the older chip it replaces and make the Uber upgrade that much better.  If you're thinking about buying a Bifrost based on what you're reading in this thread:  If you buy it with USB you'll get the newer USB board.  Get the Uber board.  It's well worth the expense.

post #308 of 1154
I searched through but didn't see many detailed comparisons; has anyone yet thoroughly compared an uber-Bifrost with a standard Gungnir? I'm really debating whether to spill for the uber + USB upgrades now or hold out longer for a Gungnir.
post #309 of 1154
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyWaj10 View Post

I searched through but didn't see many detailed comparisons; has anyone yet thoroughly compared an uber-Bifrost with a standard Gungnir? I'm really debating whether to spill for the uber + USB upgrades now or hold out longer for a Gungnir.

Gungnir is balanced, so you will see some benefit with that if you stay balanced throughout the entire chain. If however you do not want to commit to balanced throughout the chain (including balanced headphone cabling), which admittedly is a bit of a pain,  the Gungnir probably does not make sense. 


Edited by phototristan - 7/9/13 at 2:33pm
post #310 of 1154

So is it then acceptable to say the Uber-Bifrost is (from a single-ended standpoint) closer to a Gungnir in terms of SQ, and not necessary to go the Gungnir purchase route?

post #311 of 1154
^ Good question. I haven't seen a comparison of Gungnir and Uber-Bifrost yet.
post #312 of 1154
Got my Bifrost Über today, build quality is OK, and the unit performs very well for its price. I did not ever hear the non über version but this version is IMO well worth the money.
post #313 of 1154
Quote:
Originally Posted by walls View Post

Got my Bifrost Über today, build quality is OK, and the unit performs very well for its price. I did not ever hear the non über version but this version is IMO well worth the money.


It's not even fully cooked yet, give it some time and you will like it even more...DON'T TURN IT OFF, EVER....

post #314 of 1154
Why not turn it off? I turn my amp off when not in use so it seems pointless to leave the DAC on.
post #315 of 1154
It gets pretty hot too. I always turn mine off.
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