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The Fiio X5 Thread - Page 432

post #6466 of 19490
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandalaudio View Post
 

 

The existing Chinese users can keep on using the folder based navigation. We are not trying to make them change to the tag based system. What we want is Fiio to realize that the tags are just as important, and people around the world who have a good collection of HD lossless audio files wishes for better tag support.

 

Actually that's what I was going to ask the Fiio representatives here, but got lost along the way... Does it have to be "either or"? Why can't it be both? Why can't Fiio support both the current version(for whoever finds it convenient) and an option for tags and playlists? Why does it have to be one way or the other?

 

Having in mind what has been shared already in this thread(for example the 5800 songs library limit), the answer might betray some short sight from designers point of view, i.e. not leaving enough memory in the system to store or manipulate a lot of the information... required for organization of the library. Now if that is the case, it'd be really sad case...

post #6467 of 19490
Quote:
Originally Posted by vkalia View Post
 

  

This irrational defense of the X5 at all costs is starting to get extremely annoying.   What, just b/c some of you guys dont have any issues, the rest of us are supposed to just suck it up and not give our feedback?    Do you want to pay me $350 for my X5?  If so, you can buy it off me and I'll leave this thread.  If not, please dont presume to tell me that my issues are not justified and/or that I should get something else.

 

What sense of perspective should I have if I have just bought a player for $350 that doesnt perform very basic functional tasks?    And let's be clear here - basic indexing of files using ID3 tags, and gapless playback isnt exactly cutting edge, revolutionary stuff - it has been on offer for ages.  These problem have been around since the start of the X3 and have been masked by apologists like you, who keep making excuses for the company and diluting the feedback whenever it was provided.      

 

As for the excuse that they dont know what Western consumers want - every time a western consumer tries to tell them that gapless is an issue, ID3 tagging is an issue, people like you jump in and start making excuses, justifications and telling the entire world that their product is fine and we are just ranting/whining/whatevers.     So how the hell are they supposed to figure it out?

 

All through the world tour, it was like "yeah, there are minor issues with tagging and gapless and they'll be fixed by launch".   And guess what - they still havent been fixed.     I dont care about what problems the AK units have or the iBasso units have - I care about getting the problems on my X5 unit remedied.

 

Let me put it another way - instead of telling us to buy another product, why dont you stick to enjoying your perfect product, and leave the rest of us who want improvements continue to ask for it? 

post #6468 of 19490
Quote:
Originally Posted by CH23 View Post

Actually i gave it away to a friend.
You might not have noticed, but JamesFiiO has communicated with us from the very start, with the X3 too.
The thing is, there are an x number of people all wanting different things, so you have to compromise on something.

If you have to change firmware, it isn't really apple supporting it, is it?

Yes indeed and thank Christ. I detest Apple. They are anti competetive and have the morals of a junkie. That said, a rockboxed 5th gen iPod is still a very capable flac player.

IMHO fiio should embrace the rockbox community, start talking, forget the proprietary ********, get it done and then you would have a DAP that is going to make A&K, HiFiman and all the other players in this market very nervous. That would have been my business model.
post #6469 of 19490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post
 

 

Valid point - but .......

 

There is a medium for reporting bugs, suggesting improvements etc (https://app.devzing.com/FiiO/bugzilla/).  Fiio are actively using it, and it keeps all the ideas for improvements in one place.  it also allows people to elevate the awareness of the fault.  The more popular requests should (hopefully) be treated with greater importance.

 

The issue that you need to keep in mind is that Fiio are selling to a big audience, and everyone has different wants / needs.  Some they can support - some will take time.

 

What doesn't help is the few (extremely vocal) people posting over and over about the same faults - and how it's affecting them.  Yes your entitled to an opinion, and yes you've voiced it.  Now do something about it please.  Choices:
 - file the fault on their bugzilla, and get like minded people to elevate it

 - wait for the fix

 - or sell the unit (there would be plenty of buyers available at the moment, and you wouldn't lose much)

 

But it would be kind of nice if we didn't have to read the same thing over and over again from the vocal minority.  This thread has already exploded out of control with many posts echoing the same thing.  My advice - do something about it or move on.  It's a DAP - it's not a life changing choice ;)

 

Well, to be completely honest, we wouldnt keep re-posting it over and over if people didnt chime in and start coming up with wholly useless responses like "you are a bunch of whiners" and "your issues are irrelevant" (I am paraphrasing) and pretty much belittling or washing over the issues.

 

My issue isnt with the specific X5 problems per se, nor do I need to be told what to do to resolve it - my issue is with the small but vocal minority of people who seem hellbent on telling the world that our issues are irrelevant and launching personal attacks on us and our motivations (I got banned from the X5 World tour thread for accusing people of acting like fanboys.   I wonder if anyone is going to get banned from this thread for accusing us of being whiners).

 

As for post in on a bug list and be done - it hasnt worked.    Gapless and ID3 tagging issues remain problems from the early days of X3.    I am sorry that listing of the issues is bothering some people, but I have spent a good amount of money on FiiO products and I do have a right to ask them to address the bugs.  I'd be able to do so a lot more calmly and positively if the peanut gallery would stop accusing me of whining/being irrational/etc.   Hell, I'd also shut up if FiiO just came in and flat out said that they wont fix these bugs.   

 

However, there isnt any rational discussion happening with FiiO, b/c we are getting shouted out by this vocal majority.  Personally, I think FiiO would have a greater impetus to fix these bugs if the apologists did not come in and dismiss our complaints as whining.  

 

And THAT is the reason I am getting irritated.   Not at FiiO, but at the apologists.


Edited by vkalia - 4/9/14 at 12:26am
post #6470 of 19490
Quote:
Originally Posted by vkalia View Post
 

As for post in on a bug list and be done - it hasnt worked.    Gapless and ID3 tagging issues remain problems from the early days of X3.    I am sorry that listing of the issues is bothering some people, but I have spent a good amount of money on FiiO products and I do have a right to ask them to address the bugs.  I'd be able to do so a lot more calmly and positively if the peanut gallery would stop accusing me of whining/being irrational/etc.   Hell, I'd also shut up if FiiO just came in and flat out said that they wont fix these bugs.   

 

However, there isnt any rational discussion happening with FiiO, b/c we are getting shouted out by this vocal majority.  Personally, I think FiiO would have a greater impetus to fix these bugs if the apologists did not come in and dismiss our complaints as whining.  

 
 
Sigh.  And again - you missed the point of my post.
 
File a bug.  Get others to support it.  Be prepared to wait for a fix.
 
Or
 
Sell X5 - be prepared to invest in a DAP that suits you better
 
The option that seems to be mostly exercised though is endlessly posting the same thing over and over.  It's not helping you.  It's not helping others.  And it is slightly irrational don't you think?  Please note that I'm not attacking you, nor trying to gloss anything over.  I'm not making excuses for Fiio, nor marginalising your valid opinion.  I'm just saying that if you don't want to be called "a whiner" then may approach things in a more rational way.
 
Put simply - your needs may be different to other's needs.  If yours aren't being adressed, or you're not prepared to patiently wait for a fix - then get rid of the device and move on.
 
Either way - good luck.  Although I was an early tester (thanks Fiio), I'm unsubbing from this thread.
post #6471 of 19490
Quote:
Originally Posted by vkalia View Post
 

  

This irrational defense of the X5 at all costs is starting to get extremely annoying.   What, just b/c some of you guys dont have any issues, the rest of us are supposed to just suck it up and not give our feedback?    Do you want to pay me $350 for my X5?  If so, you can buy it off me and I'll leave this thread.  If not, please dont presume to tell me that my issues are not justified and/or that I should get something else.

 

What sense of perspective should I have if I have just bought a player for $350 that doesnt perform very basic functional tasks?    And let's be clear here - basic indexing of files using ID3 tags, and gapless playback isnt exactly cutting edge, revolutionary stuff - it has been on offer for ages.  These problem have been around since the start of the X3 and have been masked by apologists like you, who keep making excuses for the company and diluting the feedback whenever it was provided.      

 

As for the excuse that they dont know what Western consumers want - every time a western consumer tries to tell them that gapless is an issue, ID3 tagging is an issue, people like you jump in and start making excuses, justifications and telling the entire world that their product is fine and we are just ranting/whining/whatevers.     So how the hell are they supposed to figure it out?

 

All through the world tour, it was like "yeah, there are minor issues with tagging and gapless and they'll be fixed by launch".   And guess what - they still havent been fixed.     I dont care about what problems the AK units have or the iBasso units have - I care about getting the problems on my X5 unit remedied.

 

Let me put it another way - instead of telling us to buy another product, why dont you stick to enjoying your perfect product, and leave the rest of us who want improvements continue to ask for it? 


it's not an irrational defense, what's happening isn't that you're just telling us/fiio that there's problems, you keep going on about it, like a child asking attention from their mother. that's what bothers me.

 

i'm not saying the device is flawless, because it isn't. tagging should work. gapless playback should work.

 

having a limit of 5800 files seems reasonable to me, just because you can add nearly unlimited amounts of storage doesn't mean unlimited amounts of storage are supported.

 

how many files fit on 2 64GB micro SD cards?

 

"apologists like me" i'm not an apologist, if i had trouble with a function of the device, i explained this in the thread, and be done with it.

i don't go bashing the player saying that a function that should be implemented and now the device is a failure.

 

furthermore, there's a bugzilla account just for all the bugs and missing functions you can find. --> https://app.devzing.com/FiiO/bugzilla/

 

 

FiiO has been actively fixing a lot of stuff.

 

 

 

post #6472 of 19490
Quote:
Originally Posted by CH23 View Post

 

furthermore, there's a bugzilla account just for all the bugs and missing functions you can find. --> https://app.devzing.com/FiiO/bugzilla/

 

FiiO has been actively fixing a lot of stuff.

 

 

People are shouting threats about refusing to buy X5, cancelling order, return to get money back.. etc, because they want to get noticed.

 

I am personally having excellent enjoyment listening to music on my X5, albeit some minor GUI shortcomings.

 

One thing that surprises me is, has anyone actually tried the new DSD support on the 1.21? Personally this is a huge exciting news for me.

Fiio engineers must have spent some effort to get DSF/DFF support on the X5, but nobody seems to care and instead talks about how many MP3's they can fit in cards.

 

I'm really happy that I can take my collection of 192kHz and DSD music and listen on the go. I know X5 transcodes DSD to PCM before D/A (not native DSD), but a good PCM conversion sounds just as excellent, especially with the excellent analogue amp section on the X5.

 

I want Fiio to keep on pushing forward and become the leading DAP for high res, high quality audio playback, and I want the users to support them, rather than being bogged down with other non-Hi-Fi matters.

post #6473 of 19490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobgoblinpie View Post

They're both lossless. They should play sound exactly the same in every player.

Naim Audio make Streamers costing between £2000 and £7000 and are adamant there are differences between WAV and Flac. Both are lossless. Flac and ALAC are both compressed and need unpacking in real time so there can potentially be a difference how a player deals with this. I have spoken to Naim owners who say they can tell the difference and also to others who can't. Debatable I know, especially on portable systems that cost a fraction of some Naim gear. Just making the point that there are many who believe they can hear a difference between lossless formats.
post #6474 of 19490
I love my X5.

Using it daily, and patiently waiting for the fixes to come. In the meantime I'm enjoying the SQ immensely, that's what I purchased it for.
Edited by x RELIC x - 4/9/14 at 1:40am
post #6475 of 19490

Sorry if this has already been answered but has anyone traded up from the X3 to the x5 and is it worthwhile? I have an X3 which I'm enjoying a lot, I've been lucky enough not to have many issues with it so far, but upgraditis has hit me hard and I'm considering going for the X5 or Dx90.

post #6476 of 19490
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAund View Post

Sorry if this has already been answered but has anyone traded up from the X3 to the x5 and is it worthwhile? I have an X3 which I'm enjoying a lot, I've been lucky enough not to have many issues with it so far, but upgraditis has hit me hard and I'm considering going for the X5 or Dx90.

For me the X5 is an improvement over the X3.

The UI is faster, the hardware is easier to operate, and the SQ is cleaner and clearer. As others have mentioned the X5 allows subtle details to come through the rest of the music without sounding cold and analytical. When I go back to the X3 it sounds grainier and more "electronic", if that makes any sense. The difference isn't huge, but once I've adjusted to the sound output of the X5 the X3 sounds less real. I'm still keeping my X3 and will probably hook it up between my car and my A5 speakers in my office. Basically using it more as a portable digital source than a stand alone player.

Also, I prefer the larger and heavier size of the X5. It always felt like the X3 was going to slip out of my hands.
post #6477 of 19490
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewH13 View Post


Naim Audio make Streamers costing between £2000 and £7000 and are adamant there are differences between WAV and Flac. Both are lossless. Flac and ALAC are both compressed and need unpacking in real time so there can potentially be a difference how a player deals with this. I have spoken to Naim owners who say they can tell the difference and also to others who can't. Debatable I know, especially on portable systems that cost a fraction of some Naim gear. Just making the point that there are many who believe they can hear a difference between lossless formats.

 

FLAC and ALAC spit out the same PCM data that goes into the DAC, so theoretically there should be no difference.

 

However, there are some debates that FLAC and ALAC decoding are computationally intensive and may place different power supply loads, which MAY affect the sound quality. Personally I can't tell the difference. This is similar to the reason why some CD transports sound different even with the same DSP/clock system, where designers claim that some laser mechanism spits out more power supply noise (servo draining lots of power) and hence contaminate the audio power supply at the same time.

 

What is interesting is that Hi-Fi audio manufacturers all aim to minimize these effects by designing more than adequate isolated stable power supplies, strong chassis, reliable ground paths, etc. If the designers are saying the effect should be negligible but may be slight differences, then it's sort of acceptable. If the designers are saying that there is clear sound quality difference between WAV/FLAC/ALAC then that means there are major shortcomings with the design of their gear, so they need to improve it and aim to get the same sound quality from any lossless format you choose to use.

 

 

 

As for the X5, apparently the new 1.21 firmware has a bug that makes FLAC files too quiet, so that would make the comparison difficult.....

post #6478 of 19490
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAund View Post
 

Sorry if this has already been answered but has anyone traded up from the X3 to the x5 and is it worthwhile? I have an X3 which I'm enjoying a lot, I've been lucky enough not to have many issues with it so far, but upgraditis has hit me hard and I'm considering going for the X5 or Dx90.

 

I still love my X3, but the major improvement I noticed moving up to the X5 is the sound stage. There is definitely more spatial information that I can feel with the X5.

X3 sounds more focused and close. X5 separates each musicians and instruments across a wider 3D canvas.

Otherwise, the ability to drive various headphones is not too different between the X3 and the X5 (X3 was impressively capable for such a cheap price).

post #6479 of 19490
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandalaudio View Post
 

 

I still love my X3, but the major improvement I noticed moving up to the X5 is the sound stage. There is definitely more spatial information that I can feel with the X5.

X3 sounds more focused and close. X5 separates each musicians and instruments across a wider 3D canvas.

Otherwise, the ability to drive various headphones is not too different between the X3 and the X5 (X3 was impressively capable for such a cheap price).

U miss the Detail. X5's Detail is far from X3 !!!!!!!!!! I'm mid-head and i love it :beyersmile::beyersmile::beyersmile::beyersmile: 

post #6480 of 19490

Thanks for the comparisons to X3... Poor, poor wallet

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