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The Fiio X5 Thread - Page 269

post #4021 of 19490
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicHolyGhost View Post

I think people wont put down 6-800usd for X7 if they have not heard the X5 before


I think X5 already proved its strength and what can be done for only 350 dollars. That might be a good reference point for FiiO's quality and determination.

post #4022 of 19490

No to me the X7 is what I was waiting for initially, the X5 is a pure coincidence, something I truly did not expect. When I checked this post, It was well into their X5 design/release cycle then I got curious and checked the X5 specs and thought, that is a pass but not with the X7. So I figure there is nothing wrong with testing the X5 and see what FiiO can do so this way you have some ideas if the X7 could potentially be an outstanding unit. Well, was I in for a surprise.

post #4023 of 19490
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post
 

 

Well, there is one thing to list the wrong spec while another to list an incomplete spec. What iBasso did is the later. Technically they are not wrong but the information they provided is so limited that it doesn't serve any good to the buyer. Unfortunately it is all too common for most manufacturer to leave in blank and way more convenience to let the buyer fill them in with assumption that most likely won't be true. Yes, you can say it is a way of marketing.

 

 

For raw driving power, I think X3 and X5 are both way above the rest and really pushing to the same level as a good dedicated portable amp. I won't say X3 is 'significantly' more power than X5, but I think it is safe to say both have way more than you need to get good result as long as you are not driving something like planner magnetic.

 

Both DAP are tested on high gain and max volume. I never get 3.1V on DX50 but I'll guess you will probably need a 75ohm load or higher. The problem with speculating power from spec is that some manufacturer uses uncommon load (or worst, no load at all) to get a good looking spec that doesn't hold up in the real world. For example, most DAP will measure beautifully without any load. Even a 150ohm load will look very well. But put a 16ohm load in, the result can be very poor, as lower impedance load is really going to stress the DAP and tell you what the hardware responses under everyday condition, given 10 ohm multi-driver CIEM isn't uncommon these days among audiophiles. In short, it is always better to take the measurement rather than hoping for the best.

 

 

Low gain max at 1.6Vrms, same 288mA current output into 47ohm load.

 

I’ll summaries our discussion in points form so that we can compare the figures easily.  According to your measurement:

Output impedance of DX50  to around 0.4ohm under a smaller volume

 

DX50 at High Gain:

*  2.55Vrms @ 47ohm and 1.66Vrms @ 23.5ohm

*  Current output around 73mA @23.5 ohm and 85mA @ 47ohm

*  Never get 3.1V on DX50, probably need a 75ohm load or higher to achieve that figure

 

X5 at High Gain

*  3Vrms @ 47ohm and 2.98Vrms @ 23.5ohm

*   current output around 288mA @ 23.5ohm and 300mA @47ohm.

 

X5 at Low gain

*  Low gain max at 1.6Vrms (47ohm??)

*  288mA current output into 47ohm load.

 

I have worked out the Voltage output of X5 based on the figures provided in their website, the results are as follows:

 

V=√(WR)

mW

Ohm

Vrms

460

16

2.71

255

32

2.86

28

300

2.90

 

Based on these figures, we can notice that the voltage swing of X5 across different loading remain relatively stable, according to their published specification and your measurements, and in some case, your measurement even out-performed the published figure.

 

On the other hand, the voltage of DX50 swing from 2.55V to 1.66V between 23.5ohm and 47ohm, and for the benefit of doubt, let’s assume DX50 will somehow achieved the 3.1V claimed output figure at a much higher loading (75ohm? 150ohm? 300ohm?).

 

I have checked the output figure of AK100/120/240 as well, they are Voltage without specifying the loading information. 

 

Calyx-M started off with similar information but they have clarified that their output are 1.254V at 16 Ohm, 98.2mW per channel (196.4mWrms).  Unfortunately there isn’t any rating at different loading, neither are information on current capacity were provided, so we still have very little understanding on the driving power of Calyx-M at this moment.

 

This lead to a very sad conclusion, as you have stated:

Quote:

The problem with speculating power from spec is that some manufacturer uses uncommon load (or worst, no load at all) to get a good looking spec that doesn't hold up in the real world. For example, most DAP will measure beautifully without any load. Even a 150ohm load will look very well.

 

Right now, consumers has no way to find out the ACTUAL output rating of their DAP, which should compose of three figures: output impedance, output measured at different loading (V or W), and the associated current capacity  (OK, the output impedance is more related to control then driving power)

 

I think we had a good start already, maybe we should start a new thread of DAP output rating instead of Hi-jack the X5 thread further.  With your help and experience, maybe we can put up a simple measurement instruction so that DAP owners with appropriate background and equipment can measure their DAP output figures and we can comply an exhaustive table, and Head-Fier can make an informed decision with the real-life numbers under the sun.

 

post #4024 of 19490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andykong View Post
 

I think we had a good start already, maybe we should start a new thread of DAP output rating instead of Hi-jack the X5 thread further.  With your help and experience, maybe we can put up a simple measurement instruction so that DAP owners with appropriate background and equipment can measure their DAP output figures and we can comply an exhaustive table, and Head-Fier can make an informed decision with the real-life numbers under the sun.

 

Good idea!

post #4025 of 19490

Where is that thread?  

 

:popcorn:

post #4026 of 19490
Quote:
Originally Posted by zilch0md View Post

That's it! 

I'm going to put myself into cryogenic suspension for ten years. 

ku-xlarge.jpg

Hang on. I have our grande starbucks coffee and hooters buffalo wings. Lets tongue_smile.gif before we "I Pod" self.
post #4027 of 19490

The DX50 will also have some bass roll into low impedance due to capacitor coupling. Not a huge deal as anything above 24 ohms will still be flat to 30hz but something the X5 is completely immune to.

post #4028 of 19490
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberOzL View Post
 


lol. Just get X5 for 350 bucks only and call it a day. The best audiophile bargain of the history - after Clip+ of course :tongue_smile:

 

Now, that reference to the Clip+ says it all, in my book!  

 

:tongue_smile:

post #4029 of 19490

Can some one who has both the Stock X3 and the X5 comment on how they compare as to the SQ of each ??

 

thanks

post #4030 of 19490
I wishes X5 don't let me disappointed like X3. X3's vocal is great but instrument and sound field are weakness.
post #4031 of 19490
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert123wr View Post

I wishes X5 don't let me disappointed like X3. X3's vocal is great but instrument and sound field are weakness.

Same, i really love X3's vocal

post #4032 of 19490
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert123wr View Post

I wishes X5 don't let me disappointed like X3. X3's vocal is great but instrument and sound field are weakness.

Normally when you have a dap with colored sounding it's good for some genres and not good even bad for other genres.

 

When you have a clean and transparent audio path, it should sound good for everything. Like CD players they sound good for everything.

post #4033 of 19490
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMinor View Post

Normally when you have a dap with colored sounding it's good for some genres and not good even bad for other genres.

When you have a clean and transparent audio path, it should sound good for everything. Like CD players they sound good for everything.

It's interesting that we are in pursuit of the ultimate sound quality. Is there such a thing? Think about it, what you hear might be man or nature made. However or unfortunately it is captured by a device that is not perfect; the human ear. There is no such thing as the perfectly captured sound as any device used in capturing it is imperfect by its nature and has limited bandwidth and time response (not to mention noise injection). So as such you'll never be able to hear the original sound as it was once produced, it'll be damn close though.

By the way the CD player can be self contained with its own dac, amplification stage or just an input device in a stereo chain or computer system. You can bet that if it is self contained it will potentially have its own coloration and might not be optimal for certain types of music. The bottom line is the CD player part responsible for reading the CD media will not be the last in the decision of how the reproduced music will sound.

Now back to the X3 vs X5, I have not listened to the X3 but I can tell you that the X5 has exquisite reproduced vocals, it's definitively one of it's strengths. Overall, Its a very good sounding player. But like any other things in life, you got to experience it by yourself, let your imperfect ears be the judge. wink.gif
Edited by musicheaven - 2/2/14 at 12:35am
post #4034 of 19490

Yep synergy is key, as is implementation. I concur the X5 has superb vocals, and a very black background which also lends itself to that exquisite micro-detailing. 


Edited by lee730 - 2/2/14 at 12:37am
post #4035 of 19490

Yesterday I accidentally visited the „Norddeutschland Hifi Tage 2014“, a trade fair in Hamburg, Germany.

 

I wasn´t prepared to do listening tests with new devices, but when I got the chance to listen to AK240, I did. The distributor had three pre-production units with them!

 

I did listening tests with my own gear (JH13pro, pre freqphase) and my own SDXC source. My prefered  song was  “Englishman in NY” from Sting, which was ripped as .mp3 by EAC (16BIT/218 kbps, 44.1KHz).

 

I switched back and force between the devices X3 and AK240. 

 

AK240 was clearer, brighter, more separated compared to my Fiio X3. I was amazed. It sounds very comfortable and smooth, in no way aggressive. I liked it very much.

 

When I did the same test with Fiio X5 - which was provided only one door ahead - and switched between X5 and X3, I got exactly the same impression compared to my Fiio X3. X5 was brighter and more separated compared to my Fiio X3.

 

I tried to figure out a difference between the SQ of AK240 and Fiio X5, but I couldn´t.  Both of them, Fiio X5 and AK240, had the same sound signature and the same separation, brightness (neutrality?).

 

For me, the SQ of Ak240 and Fiio X5 appeared on the same level, clear above the Fiio X3.

 

 

Today the trade fair is open until 6.p.m. If anybody is around, I would appreciate if you would share your impressions with us too.

 

:beerchug:Dirk

 

Be aware, I´m not a trained audiophile and my ears are 50 years old. You may get other impressions when you listen to it.


Edited by dirihf - 2/2/14 at 1:34am
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