Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Source Gear › The Fiio X5 Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Fiio X5 Thread - Page 746

post #11176 of 17386
@NightFlight: FYI - a lot if us peruse head-fi via mobile devices, and we can't see your signature on mobile browsers - at least I can't.
post #11177 of 17386
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmatheis View Post

@NightFlight: FYI - a lot if us peruse head-fi via mobile devices, and we can't see your signature on mobile browsers - at least I can't.

Oh, I hadn't noticed:  Current Rig: Modified XDA-2 + Crack OTL +SB + Mods + HD800s

post #11178 of 17386
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightFlight View Post

 

My initial impressions is that with the W40's the X5 has an odd signature. Well detailed in the highs, but perhaps a bit 'damped' on the mids and while the bottom end is clean on bass light recordings, busy works can and will fall apart in the bottom end.

While I realize this doesn't help on-the-go listening, try playing through your PC/laptop with player like JRiver upsampled to 172.4kHz. You will find all those SQ factors improve a little.

post #11179 of 17386
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightFlight View Post

Its in my sig.

In regards to the darker signature, I suspect fiddling with the gain curves via the Fiio Firmware are in place to achieve he 'Fiio house sound'.

I like to listen to theories on how a player achieves its signature as much as the next guy but what's a gain curve? smile.gif
(ok I'm not James or part of the engineering team so just because I haven't heard of such a term doesn't mean that they don't use it, but still.)
post #11180 of 17386

https://www.google.ca/search?q=gain+curve

 

In this case it would be tweaking the output of the DAC pragmatically across the frequency band to change the signature. This is slightly different than an eq, because the response to gain across a curve can be varied at any band.  It is by no means a new idea. DSP tools were a bit of a fad in the late 80s and early 90s.  Mostly it was used to change the perceived room dynamics, like hall, amphitheater, jazz club, etc.  One idea was to compensate for poor solid state amplification by trying to negate the weak points using DSP.  You still find demos shipped with sound cards and the like.  Mostly, it doesn't work.

 

As for the X5, this is total suspicion on my part and has no basis in fact or perhaps reality. ;-)  But its entirely possible DSP has been used to manipulate what the amp section gets to show its better qualities and subdue its worst. Best way to make a portable player perform on the cheap.

 

Regardless, it works well, whatever they've done.


Edited by NightFlight - 7/20/14 at 11:22pm
post #11181 of 17386

Here's my short bit if impressions about the X5 and some comparison with the DX50, both of which were shortly auditioned by me at a local audio store using my JH13FP:

 

Regarding build quality, the X5 felt fantastic in my hand. Its weight, while actually was a bit more than I initially expected, inspired a lot of confidence along with the brushed aluminium body. The wheel was not as rigid as I thought and while it might be seen as the weakest bit of the design, was really solid and I'd imagine it'd be easy to replace should problems occur. In contrast to some of the reports I've read here, the wheel's mechanism was precise and I had no problems navigating my way around. On top of that, the screen was probably the most vibrant of all the DAPs I've tried and it came at just the right size. However, if I were to suggest something to FiiO, I'd probably ask them to replace the plasticky buttons with something more durable and elegant-looking, but that might just be me.

 

The UI of the X5 was the best one I've come across so far compared to all the boutique Chinese DAPs I've tried and owned before. Full stop. It still hasn't reached Apple-level of refinement and convenience, but it's getting very close there and to me, it's thrilling to know that the UI is going to get even better with continuous support from FiiO.  As mentioned above, the wheeling mechanism was very precise and worked flawlessly at least in the 30 minutes I was auditioning it. Choosing songs, jumping from one to another of even reaching anywhere in a 500 track playlist were a breeze, something I could only dream of while using my good old Studio V. The four directional buttons also proved to be of tremendous help with using the player and I experienced no lagging issues with them. I still want the buttons to be labelled properly though, though as an user has mentioned in the subsequent upgrades Fiio may give users the freedom to map functions into buttons to their likings, in which case there is really no need to do so. In comparison to this, the DX50's UI was a nightmare to use, though please take a bag of sand here as I did not have a look at the firmware version and thus had no idea which version it was at. The screen was ridiculously sensitive at the start of the audition, leading to the fact that each time I wanted to scroll the playlist down, I actually ended up picking a song instead. Things only improved a bit after I turned the screen off and fired it up again, but the problem still persisted occasionally. In addition to this, despite the lengthy time it took at the start, it seemed like the player did an incomplete job of scanning my SD card as each time I moved to a different folder or section of the playlist a message popped up informing me that a scan was going to be performed. This proved to be extremely infuriating especially when you're navigating your way in a large playlist and you get something like that once per five seconds. The physical buttons on the other hand were much nicer and I love how they are nicely separated and labelled from each other, most definitely a saving grace to the otherwise disastrous screen. However, I know that there are a lot of problems associated with changing or improving the UI of a DAP especially with small Chinese DAP manufacturers and in that regard, I want to give FiiO a huge pat in the back for what they've achieved with the X5 and for how they've always been listening to their customers to make things turn out the way they are.

 

Sound quality is probably the part when I feel the least confident about, taking into account the audition was fairly short (30 mins with both the X5 and the DX50) to give out any reliable impression but here goes anyway. Not surprisingly, the DX50's sound quality inspired a lot more enthusiasm than its UI did. The overall impression was that it sounded slight warm to my ears, with good detail and soundstage, but lacked a bit of extension on both ends of the spectrum with some slightly hazy imaging. Overall, it was a slight step up from my Clip+ especially in the soundstage department, but not good enough to convince me to shell out the money for it. The X5 was a different story. It felt powerful. The X5 spotted to me what seemed to be missing from the DX50: a more neutral response, more "resolution" in the notes, better extension in the bass region, more energy in the treble and an overall a more accurate and spacious presentation. Now you might say that this comparison is utter nonsense since I'm comparing a $239 player with something that is nearly one and a half time more expensive and I'd say you're probably correct. What I want to imply here is that most of the improvements mentioned above IMO may be the result of better amplification integrated in the X5, and what I mean by that is that to my ears, the DX50 while had more than enough power to drive the JH13's drivers to deafening volume level, actually did it with much less authority and refinement compared to the X5 (the gain was at high, btw). What this translates to is that IMO, you can close the performance gap between both players by adding a good external portable amplifier to the DX50 at the expenses of extra bulks and money (I'd imagine you have to pay some seriously good money for it though) and this goes to show you how incredible a bargain the X5 is. Throwing in the very solid and refined UI, better battery life and I have no doubts that the X5 has the capability to challenge (or even beat) some much more expensive DAPs on the market, given that I found the performance better than that of the Studio V and approaching the DX100's.

 

Lastly, I think I need to mention that by comparing the X5 to the DX50, I am not trying to say that the DX50 is a terrible offering from Ibasso, I found the form factor to be really good, the sound quality up to par and if they could improve the UI, it would no doubt be a solid buy. And if I hadn't heard the X5, the DX50 would definitely be on my radar. What is troubling me now is that I'm finding myself hopelessly smitten with the X5, its sound quality and its UI while not being able to afford it (yet!). Yet I'm still hesitating in forking out my precious hard-earned money because if FiiO continues this trend, who knows how much potential the X7 would hold. One thing I know though, I might just give up my cash very soon.

 

(Thank you to you guys who have the patience to read through all of this. It was meant to be a short impression but turned out much longer than I planned it to be).

post #11182 of 17386
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightFlight View Post
 

https://www.google.ca/search?q=gain+curve

 

In this case it would be tweaking the output of the DAC pragmatically across the frequency band to change the signature. This is slightly different than an eq, because the response to gain across a curve can be varied at any band.  It is by no means a new idea. DSP tools were a bit of a fad in the late 80s and early 90s.  Mostly it was used to change the perceived room dynamics, like hall, amphitheater, jazz club, etc.  One idea was to compensate for poor solid state amplification by trying to negate the weak points using DSP.  You still find demos shipped with sound cards and the like.  Mostly, it doesn't work.

 

As for the X5, this is total suspicion on my part and has no basis in fact or perhaps reality. ;-)  But its entirely possible DSP has been used to manipulate what the amp section gets to show its better qualities and subdue its worst. Best way to make a portable player perform on the cheap.

 

Regardless, it works well, whatever they've done.

 

If you look at the basic components / layout diagram provided by Fiio (the bottom layout in the image below - top one is for X3), I'm not sure that there's been a "budget" approach taken that would then rely on DSP to "fix" it. I would also suggest that the X5 is a departure from the Fiio "house sound" given that previous products (amps, X5, etc.) have been quite warm compared to the X5.

 

This isn't to suggest that the X5's onboard amp is perfect as I think many of us choose to use the line-out for the better sound delivered via that path, but I'm just not sure that there's going to be deliberate efforts to alter / colour the sound with DSP. I for one like the X5 HPO, but LOVE the X5 line-out. I think the HPO sounds a little flat compared to the sound from the line-out and a good amp like the E12DIY, but it's probably a result of the OPA1612 / LMH6643 combination I expect.

post #11183 of 17386

I think I want to point out that, as much as many of us know there is a warmish "house sound" for FiiO, I don't think FiiO themselves are fixated on just one particular sound signature  across the whole line-up. The main reason for a warmish sound on their previous products is due to the fact that FiiO is not targeting an audiophiles market specifically and they have found that a warm sound is much easier to market to the general consumer. As they moved from consumer grade to audiophile grade product, the demand starts to change from wanting a warm sound to wanting a more transparent sound, as most audiophiles rather want their headphone to do the coloration instead of the source. That's why the next FiiO's DAP, the X7, is said to have the most neutral and transparent sound yet. If you are really into the warmish 'house sound' from the past, I won't say the X5 or the upcoming X7 will be the best of choice.

 

There is no DSP in X3 or X5 that I know of, unless of course you count the SoC as one (which it can simulate a DSP function, if wanted). The question of sound signature difference between X5 and the classic warm FiiO sound actually comes up very often in the Chinese forums. Different from the rest of the world, many Chinese audiophile actually like to have a bit more coloration in their DAP, and thus some goes as far as claiming the X5 is "defected" in sound tuning - just to show you that there is really no one correct solution to everyone. Different strokes for different folks.

post #11184 of 17386
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post

I think I want to point out that, as much as many of us know there is a warmish "house sound" for FiiO, I don't think FiiO themselves are fixated on just one particular sound signature  across the whole line-up. The main reason for a warmish sound on their previous products is due to the fact that FiiO is not targeting an audiophiles market specifically and they have found that a warm sound is much easier to market to the general consumer. As they moved from consumer grade to audiophile grade product, the demand starts to change from wanting a warm sound to wanting a more transparent sound, as most audiophiles rather want their headphone to do the coloration instead of the source. That's why the next FiiO's DAP, the X7, is said to have the most neutral and transparent sound yet. If you are really into the warmish 'house sound' from the past, I won't say the X5 or the upcoming X7 will be the best of choice.

There is no DSP in X3 or X5 that I know of, unless of course you count the SoC as one (which it can simulate a DSP function, if wanted). The question of sound signature difference between X5 and the classic warm FiiO sound actually comes up very often in the Chinese forums. Different from the rest of the world, many Chinese audiophile actually like to have a bit more coloration in their DAP, and thus some goes as far as claiming the X5 is "defected" in sound tuning - just to show you that there is really no one correct solution to everyone. Different strokes for different folks.

I hope that X7 will be really neutral (because X5 is not completely neutral to my years - if it was I would already have it). I really liked X5's UI and build quality as well as FiiO's desire to constatly improve this product so if FiiO will have similar approach to X7 as they have to X5 (in terms of UI and desire to improve the DAP) I will be willing to buy X7 (assuming of course it will have really neutral sound).
Edited by shakur1996 - 7/21/14 at 4:46am
post #11185 of 17386
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightFlight View Post

https://www.google.ca/search?q=gain+curve

In this case it would be tweaking the output of the DAC pragmatically across the frequency band to change the signature. This is slightly different than an eq, because the response to gain across a curve can be varied at any band.  It is by no means a new idea. DSP tools were a bit of a fad in the late 80s and early 90s.  Mostly it was used to change the perceived room dynamics, like hall, amphitheater, jazz club, etc.  One idea was to compensate for poor solid state amplification by trying to negate the weak points using DSP.  You still find demos shipped with sound cards and the like.  Mostly, it doesn't work.

As for the X5, this is total suspicion on my part and has no basis in fact or perhaps reality. ;-)  But its entirely possible DSP has been used to manipulate what the amp section gets to show its better qualities and subdue its worst. Best way to make a portable player perform on the cheap.

Regardless, it works well, whatever they've done.

Sounds impressive, but what does it mean?
Are you referring to dynamic range expansion or compression?
post #11186 of 17386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post

Actually it isn't that complicated (MP3Tag).  It just takes time to learn, and get used to it.  It's also very configurable, and you can virtually do an entire library once it's all set-up properly.  It's just a matter of getting the defaults set-up for your needs.

What I've done is set the default tagging to a very basic FLAC style - one which only has the following tags:

Artist
Album Artist
Album
Genre
Year
Track #

Once the defaults are set-up, I first delete all tags, then click undo (which resets all the tags properly).  This also gets rid of artwork.  Next I display extended tags, and mark for deletion anything that doesn't appear in my above list.  That leaves 6 basic tag fields.  Then by album, I add artwork.  I use 600x600 jpgs only.  The artworks is the only thing you'll have to add by album. Everything else can be done via library.

Again - over to you if you want to spend the time learning the program - but I definitely have no problems with the X5 stuttering.

Oh - and I doubt FW3 is going to fix stuttering if the issue is with untidy tags .......

I use

Artist
Album
Year
Track #
disc #
Trackname

I sort them using "artist/year - album/artist - year - album - disc+track - trackname" in the filename.

So this would make it:
"C:/Mike Oldfield/1973 - Tubular Bells/Mike Oldfield - 1973 - Tubular Bells - 0101 - Part 1.flac"

This way it will always play in order.

After renaming the filename like this, you can remove all tags, and then retag by using the filename.

It's worth trying out mp3tag. It looks intimidating, but after playing with it a while, it'll be easy to use smily_headphones1.gif
post #11187 of 17386

-- Deleted screwed up post --


Edited by Commander Keen - 7/21/14 at 10:16am
post #11188 of 17386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_S View Post


I'm using a transcend premium 300x 64mb

I have the same memory card and had similar problems.

 

After farting around though I found the easiest way to get round it all was to use Foobar to convert the files back to wav, then reconvert to FLAC (Level 8), retagged everything (using Tag&Rename). I recopied the files back onto the card, updated the db and it all worked fine.

 

I have no idea what caused it, but this method certainly cured it.

post #11189 of 17386

Anyone know if the 5800 song limit has been fixed?  

post #11190 of 17386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loquah View Post
 

 

If you look at the basic components / layout diagram provided by Fiio (the bottom layout in the image below - top one is for X3), I'm not sure that there's been a "budget" approach taken that would then rely on DSP to "fix" it. I would also suggest that the X5 is a departure from the Fiio "house sound" given that previous products (amps, X5, etc.) have been quite warm compared to the X5.

 

This isn't to suggest that the X5's onboard amp is perfect as I think many of us choose to use the line-out for the better sound delivered via that path, but I'm just not sure that there's going to be deliberate efforts to alter / colour the sound with DSP. I for one like the X5 HPO, but LOVE the X5 line-out. I think the HPO sounds a little flat compared to the sound from the line-out and a good amp like the E12DIY, but it's probably a result of the OPA1612 / LMH6643 combination I expect.

 

I hadn't thought to try the line out.  I'll put that on my todo and listen to what the Crack/HD800 combo reveal.  I'm expecting the line out -> external amp will do better and the Westone W40s and/or HPO are limiting the resolution I'm kinda stuck expecting.  Portable audio is a bit frustrating. I don't see myself getting anything close to my desktop rig, and I guess rightly so.


Edited by NightFlight - 7/21/14 at 12:56pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Portable Source Gear
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Source Gear › The Fiio X5 Thread