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The Fiio X5 Thread - Page 71

post #1051 of 19479
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesFiiO View Post

yes, I can confirmed that X5 may not have bigger power than x3 , maybe the power is the same as X3 . cause we found lots of X3's user bought X3 with E12 together. and we believe even we control the power output to 

 

200 - 250 mw, it already enough to drive all IEM, and for big cans, maybe E12 will be the best option .


James since you are here, I would like to learn your opinion about adding either optical output or USB audio output to X5. Is there a hope for us? Hoichi and I intend to use it with Centrance Hifi M8 and we know we are not the only ones. Because all other options have their big disadvantages like:

 

AK 100 and 120: Overpriced as hell.

iDevices: No high res support.

IHIFI960: No high res support.

DX100 / HDP R10: Extremely big and buggy UI/ Also R10 is Japan restricted only.

 

So here we have you as our only hope. Because you always listen to us here and try to help us, fix everything you can and help as much as possible. Will it be too much to ask for a connectivity option to pair it with M8?

post #1052 of 19479
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberOzL View Post


James since you are here, I would like to learn your opinion about adding either optical output or USB audio output to X5. Is there a hope for us? Hoichi and I intend to use it with Centrance Hifi M8 and we know we are not the only ones. Because all other options have their big disadvantages like:

 

AK 100 and 120: Overpriced as hell.

iDevices: No high res support.

IHIFI960: No high res support.

DX100 / HDP R10: Extremely big and buggy UI/ Also R10 is Japan restricted only.

 

So here we have you as our only hope. Because you always listen to us here and try to help us, fix everything you can and help as much as possible. Will it be too much to ask for a connectivity option to pair it with M8?

 

 

there are some options

 

1, we may add the optical out in next model

 

2, maybe a coaxial to optical adaptor.

 

3, maybe ask Centrance to support coaxial in. I known they are good at listening to end user too.

 

we can change any hardware feature in X5 otherwise we will have to delay the schedule . sorry for that.

post #1053 of 19479
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesFiiO View Post

 

yes, but why you need a TOSLINK output, it is not suitable for portable use if you want to connect X5 to other portable DAC cause the cable is too hard 

Yes, but for some reason CEntrance added TOSLINK to their (trans)portable HiFi M8 LX but didn't add coaxial, and now the cheapest source that works with it is DX100 and the lightest is AK100, so having something reasonably priced, light and well-designed, like the X5, would be extremely welcome.

HiFi M8 is shaping to be a big hit among head-fiers but I don't know how much units is sold and how much optical-only DACs there is at all, so maybe adding optical output doesn't make business sense to FiiO. Still, one can dream :)

post #1054 of 19479
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesFiiO View Post

yes, I can confirmed that X5 may not have bigger power than x3 , maybe the power is the same as X3 . cause we found lots of X3's user bought X3 with E12 together. and we believe even we control the power output to 

200 - 250 mw, it already enough to drive all IEM, and for big cans, maybe E12 will be the best option .

Thanks James. I respect your decision to follow the market. 

Personally though, I would not want another $400 DAP that is less powerful than X3 and offers no more storage option.

The beauty of X3, in my eyes, is that I don't need another portable amp for headphones more efficient than 96 db/mw. X3 alone can power HD600/650 to over 111 db, which is more than enough for portable listening. Adding E12 would get you ~117 db with HD600/650, but with the added bulkiness (in addition to X3), the 2-stack would not fit in a pocket as "portable". When I don't need portable, there are plenty of stationary amps that can drive most headphones to over 120 db.
post #1055 of 19479
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesFiiO View Post

 

 

there are some options

 

1, we may add the optical out in next model

 

2, maybe a coaxial to optical adaptor.

 

3, maybe ask Centrance to support coaxial in. I known they are good at listening to end user too.

 

we can change any hardware feature in X5 otherwise we will have to delay the schedule . sorry for that.


1 Optical out in the next model you say. It will be something like X7 right? So we can say at least 1 more year to wait?

 

2 Coaxial to optical adaptor, I have seen that, not sure I would use it. It is already a big stack, it would make it even bigger and not useful.

 

3 Centrance is like Fiio, they both listen to their customers, so we are trying to contact them both to find a middle for users.

 

I am glad that I asked your opinion and thank you for the information. It is always good to talk like that and see things, discuss clearly. Also, no need to sorry James, you and your team do great no worries wink.gif

post #1056 of 19479

Yeah, no need to be sorry James. I hope the X5 will be a great product anyway.

post #1057 of 19479
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzffnn View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesFiiO View Post

yes, I can confirmed that X5 may not have bigger power than x3 , maybe the power is the same as X3 . cause we found lots of X3's user bought X3 with E12 together. and we believe even we control the power output to 

200 - 250 mw, it already enough to drive all IEM, and for big cans, maybe E12 will be the best option .

Thanks James. I respect your decision to follow the market. 

Personally though, I would not want another $400 DAP that is less powerful than X3 and offers no more storage option.

The beauty of X3, in my eyes, is that I don't need another portable amp for headphones more efficient than 96 db/mw. X3 alone can power HD600/650 to over 111 db, which is more than enough for portable listening. Adding E12 would get you ~117 db with HD600/650, but with the added bulkiness (in addition to X3), the 2-stack would not fit in a pocket as "portable". When I don't need portable, there are plenty of stationary amps that can drive most headphones to over 120 db.

I agree. While I don't need 1.5x the output power of X3, less powerful than the X3 I'd find a little disappointing. A one-box solution for HD600s I can walk around with in the house is so appealing to me. The two microSD slots are also appealing, just hope the processor can handle two cards with out UI hiccups.


Edited by 96rubberduckys - 9/2/13 at 11:24am
post #1058 of 19479
Quote:
Originally Posted by 96rubberduckys View Post

I agree. While I don't need 1.5x the output power of X3, less powerful than the X3 I'd find a little disappointing. As for storage, isn't the X5 going to have two microSd slots?


2 micro sd card slots yes. No built in memory though but I am completely fine with that.

post #1059 of 19479
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesFiiO View Post

yes, I can confirmed that X5 may not have bigger power than x3 , maybe the power is the same as X3 . cause we found lots of X3's user bought X3 with E12 together. and we believe even we control the power output to 

 

200 - 250 mw, it already enough to drive all IEM, and for big cans, maybe E12 will be the best option .

 

James - your logic sounds, err... illogical.  What is the point in telling people the X5 will be your flagship DAP if you're going to implement a (relatively) weak amp section?

 

The DX100 has been so successful because it is an (admittedly quite largesingle-box solution which has the power to drive a wider range of CIEMs/Cans than almost any other single-box solution (HM 901 has since been released, which can match that capability).

 

One of the things (apart from the outrageously greedy price) that people criticise the AK120 for is not driving as many CIEMs/Cans as powerfully as it should do, considering it is supposed to be a flagship DAP.

 

I've been patiently waiting for the X5, but I am definitely not going to buy it if it has a compromised amp section which you are expecting me to buy an E12 to compensate for. If I wanted to buy a 2-box solution (I don't) then why would I buy an E12 when there are far superior amps available from other vendors? And why would I buy an X5 if it needs a seperate amp to drive challenging loads? I think I'll just buy an HDP-R10 instead.

 

IMHO, a 'flagship' DAP with a sub-flagship amp stage does not qualify as a flagship DAP, but maybe I'm unusual for thinking that.

 

Such a shame you've made this decision now, as I had high hopes for the X5.


Edited by Mython - 9/2/13 at 4:34pm
post #1060 of 19479
Thread Starter 
I was not able to add a second poll
"on X5, would you rather have 1) 1.5 times the amp power of X3, or 2) >=15 hrs of battery life."

But please feel free to comment in this thread.

I personally prefer a single-box portable DAP with powerful internal amp (I would pick #1).

However, I guess general consumers or extreme portable audiophiles may prefer #2.

Here is why extreme portable audiophiles may want long battery life from line/digital output and not care about the integrated headphone amp of X5:

If you listen to highly dynamic music with inefficient headphones PORTABLY and loudly, you may need a powerful external amp fed by X3/X5 through line/digital out. With headphones less efficient than 96 db/mw (e.g., LCD-2 or DT880/600 ohm), even with twice the amp power of X3, you still will not get over 115 db.

That may sound like a rare senario (I certainly don't listen that way), but lots of Chinese audiophiles do listen to Classical music with portable gears, as space/housing price is always expensive there and people move around a lot.

I don't know if DX100 or HM901 has well-documented power output into different ohm loads, but chance is high that neither can drive LCD-2s or DT880/600 ohm to >115 db.

If you don't have inefficient headphones (orthos, old AKGs /Beyers), even X3 may power most headphones sufficiently.
Edited by zzffnn - 9/2/13 at 4:44pm
post #1061 of 19479
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzffnn View Post

I was not able to add a second poll
"on X5, would you rather have 1) 1.5 times the amp power of X3, or 2) >=15 hrs of battery life."
But please feel free to comment in this thread.

I personally prefer a single-box portable DAP with powerful internal amp as well (I would pick #1).

However, I understand that general consumers or extreme portable audiophiles may prefer #2.

Here is why extreme portable audiophiles may want long battery life from line/digital output and not care about the integrated headphone amp of X5:

If you listen to highly dynamic music with inefficient headphones PORTABLY and loudly, you may need a powerful external amp fed by X3/X5 through line/digital out. With headphones less efficient than 96 db/mw (e.g., LCD-2 or DT880/600 ohm), even with twice the amp power of X3, you still will not get over 115 db. That may sound like a rare senario (I certainly don't listen that way), but lots of Chinese audiophiles do listen to Classical music with portable gears, as space/housing price is always expensive there and people move around a lot.

I don't know if DX100 or HM901 has well-documented power output into different ohm loads, but chance is high that neither can drive LCD-2s or DT880/600 ohm to >115 db.

If you don't have inefficient headphones (orthos, old AKGs /Beyers), even X3 may power most headphones sufficiently.

I would definitely pick #1 as well. Battery life is not too important, since I'll never use a device for more than 5 hours a day, and even on flights 10 hrs is fine. I could really use a capable amp section though. One box solution is pretty much why I'd buy one of these DAP's, instead of doing an iPod => external amp.

post #1062 of 19479

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zzffnn View Post

I was not able to add a second poll
"on X5, would you rather have 1) 1.5 times the amp power of X3, or 2) >=15 hrs of battery life."

But please feel free to comment in this thread.

I personally prefer a single-box portable DAP with powerful internal amp (I would pick #1).

However, I guess general consumers or extreme portable audiophiles may prefer #2.

Here is why extreme portable audiophiles may want long battery life from line/digital output and not care about the integrated headphone amp of X5:

If you listen to highly dynamic music with inefficient headphones PORTABLY and loudly, you may need a powerful external amp fed by X3/X5 through line/digital out. With headphones less efficient than 96 db/mw (e.g., LCD-2 or DT880/600 ohm), even with twice the amp power of X3, you still will not get over 115 db.

That may sound like a rare senario (I certainly don't listen that way), but lots of Chinese audiophiles do listen to Classical music with portable gears, as space/housing price is always expensive there and people move around a lot.

I don't know if DX100 or HM901 has well-documented power output into different ohm loads, but chance is high that neither can drive LCD-2s or DT880/600 ohm to >115 db.

If you don't have inefficient headphones (orthos, old AKGs /Beyers), even X3 may power most headphones sufficiently.
 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by 96rubberduckys View Post

I would definitely pick #1 as well. Battery life is not too important, since I'll never use a device for more than 5 hours a day, and even on flights 10 hrs is fine. I could really use a capable amp section though. One box solution is pretty much why I'd buy one of these DAP's, instead of doing an iPod => external amp.

 

 

 

Yes, everything is relative, of course, but, for the past several months, we've been told that the X5 will be Fiio's statement/flagship one-box DAP.

 

I consider this 'little bombshell' to be more significant than James is admitting. There are many subtleties to driving a pair of CIEMs/Cans etc. Most of us realise it's not all about absolute volume. Having ample headroom in reserve can make a big difference in perceived SQ, even if one doesn't listen at loud volume.

 

To take an example from my fullsize hi-fi, I used to own a 25 watt Rotel amp, and I very, very rarely had any need to use it at maximum volume. Even so, when I upgraded to an 80 watt amp, I immediately noticed a substantial improvement in many aspects of the subjective SQ, whilst listening at equivalent volume.

 

I'm sure the X5 will sound very nice, but if it's not the flagship I was anticipating, it won't be a 'flagship' in my eyes, and won't receive any of my money. I want a single-box solution, and I'm not the only one who feels this way:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/661167/dx50-a-new-smaller-dap-from-ibasso-spec-page-1-taking-orders/3450#post_9767467

 

I suspect this decision probably stems from a desire to maximise battery life, but that could easily have been remedied, as discussed weeks ago, by allowing users to quickly swap the battery, as per the DX50.


Edited by Mython - 9/2/13 at 4:58pm
post #1063 of 19479
Thread Starter 
I agree with you mostly, Mython.
But the volume I was refering to is the transient peak volume (i.e., impact), which is not that different than your "ample headroom in reserve". Average non-peak listening volume can be easily achieved with iPods.

Edit to add more explanation:
as an example, both iPod and X3 can achieve the same average non-peak listening volume, say 85 db on HD600. But, X3 can produce 111 db transient peak impact on HD600, while iPod will clip (chop off musical peaks) and produce maybe only 102 db. The sound from iPod will thus lack impact / dynamic resolution and sound distorted or "constricted".

In other words, most of the times, volume pot position is determined by your average non-peak listening volume, turning up the volume pot does not really help, if the amp does not have enough power reserve to reproduce transient musical peaks fully.
Edited by zzffnn - 9/2/13 at 6:23pm
post #1064 of 19479
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberOzL View Post


2 micro sd card slots yes. No built in memory though but I am completely fine with that.

 

X5 will comes with a TF card, at least 32g. 

post #1065 of 19479

James, are we still on track to release this by end of 2013?
 

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