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Fiio X5 Thread - info updated on Jan 17th 2014 - Page 58

post #856 of 11263
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

I'm not sure this has been brought up, but I think it would be nice if Fiio concentrated some effort into reducing the jitter on the X5. The jitter numbers on the X3 are startling to say the least. I don't expect AK120 type of performance but something closer to the AK100 would be nice.

None of the X3 reviewers including me had any actual problem with jitter through coaxial out.

 

Jitter is extremely over rated in the audio world. If you re read every post about jitter in the X3 thread, you should have a good idea about it.

 

If we can't hear it, and don't note it, and the jitter numbers are beneath human hearing, does it still matter to you?

post #857 of 11263
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post

None of the X3 reviewers including me had any actual problem with jitter through coaxial out.

 

Jitter is extremely over rated in the audio world. If you re read every post about jitter in the X3 thread, you should have a good idea about it.

 

If we can't hear it, and don't note it, and the jitter numbers are beneath human hearing, does it still matter to you?

The reason I mention this is that as a long time fan of Fiio products from my very first Fiio E7/E9, moving to the E10/E09K and now the E17 I've always heard jitter from Fiio products. I'm sure you'll mock me and ask "what does jitter sound like?" which is typically what happens. To me jitter sounds like a veil over the sound which smears details. The details are there but just isn't as clean/precise as they can sound from a better DAC.

 

I was mostly talking to James anyway, but yeah that's my view on it, and I hope Fiio makes it a goal to reduce some jitter.

post #858 of 11263
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

I'm not sure this has been brought up, but I think it would be nice if Fiio concentrated some effort into reducing the jitter on the X5. The jitter numbers on the X3 are startling to say the least. I don't expect AK120 type of performance but something closer to the AK100 would be nice.

 

We will try our best to reduce the jitter, but depended on our testing, I can't said X3 is the least, at least it is better than one DAP which declared has the best jitter performance, but you can see it has different jitter specification on their website and amazon.

 

anyway, where we can found the test result of AK100/120's jitter performance.

post #859 of 11263
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicHolyGhost View Post

Hi James

 

Small request for the X5, possible to add Optical out?

 

Thanks!
 

 

sorry only coaxial out , cause portable DAP and DAC is not easy to be bundled by a short optical cable. but for coaxial cable, you can very easy find a very soft cable.

post #860 of 11263

about DSD playback , it is different between DSD play back and " true DSD support ". 

 

DSD play just means the DAP can read DSD file and convert to PCM signal and them use the DAC change to analog signal.  

 

but true DSD support means DSD signal is covert to analog signal directly. the true is a DSD signal can change to high quality analog signal without any DAC chip.

 

So, there are two reason why we have not add the DSD support right now.

 

1, We still need to focus on some feature which already included in X3 , but not perfect, like the tags support, 

 

2, There are very few DSD files people can buy or download.

 

3, It is just can play DSD files but loss the advantage of DSD format if you just use WM8740. 

post #861 of 11263

I don't care about DSD. Please don't waste your time with it James.

 

As for the jitter numbers for AK120/100

 

http://www.astellnkern.com/ (You have to go to "Feature" and then click on "Hi-Fi Audio Spec")

 

I'm not sure where they get these numbers. Might be BS or might not be. I understand equipment used to measure jitter is very expensive, but I think it'll be a worthwhile investment for Fiio. Supposedly the AK100 does around 90ps and the AK120 50ps (typically). I think anything under 150 would be a nice target for the X5.

post #862 of 11263
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

I don't care about DSD. Please don't waste your time with it James.

 

As for the jitter numbers for AK120/100

 

http://www.astellnkern.com/ (You have to go to "Feature" and then click on "Hi-Fi Audio Spec")

 

I'm not sure where they get these numbers. Might be BS or might not be. I understand equipment used to measure jitter is very expensive, but I think it'll be a worthwhile investment for Fiio. Supposedly the AK100 does around 90ps and the AK120 50ps (typically). I think anything under 150 would be a nice target for the X5.

 

But I feel that entirely personal preference. I for one have owned SACDs for 13 years and do care about DSD but so far primarily for the full home speaker and more recently desktop headphone setup. I'm still 50/50 on portable DSD primarily due to file size & SD Card capacity limit. AK120's realtime conversion/downsampling to PCM has actually had very positive results and even though I know I'm listening to PCM only I'm not certain why nor how iRiver has implemented it.

 

Native DSD would be something I'd be quite interested in especially in the new low power ES9018-2M. However I guess it's too late for the X5 to consider using the new Sabre DAC instead but maybe food for thought for future Fiio DAPs.

post #863 of 11263
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post

 

But I feel that entirely personal preference. I for one have owned SACDs for 13 years and do care about DSD but so far primarily for the full home speaker and more recently desktop headphone setup. I'm still 50/50 on portable DSD primarily due to file size & SD Card capacity limit. AK120's realtime conversion/downsampling to PCM has actually had very positive results and even though I know I'm listening to PCM only I'm not certain why nor how iRiver has implemented it.

 

Native DSD would be something I'd be quite interested in especially in the new low power ES9018-2M. However I guess it's too late for the X5 to consider using the new Sabre DAC instead but maybe food for thought for future Fiio DAPs.

 

+2 - I have a rather extensive collection of SACDs and DSD downloads. I don't think that the format is entirely out the door yet, and the first company to come out with a True DSD capable DAP will make some serious cheese. 

post #864 of 11263
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

I don't care about DSD. Please don't waste your time with it James.

 

As for the jitter numbers for AK120/100

 

http://www.astellnkern.com/ (You have to go to "Feature" and then click on "Hi-Fi Audio Spec")

 

I'm not sure where they get these numbers. Might be BS or might not be. I understand equipment used to measure jitter is very expensive, but I think it'll be a worthwhile investment for Fiio. Supposedly the AK100 does around 90ps and the AK120 50ps (typically). I think anything under 150 would be a nice target for the X5.

 

sorry I don't want to comment other brands, but if you check the specification on our website, you will find the all the audio performance is tested with load. there are big difference between with and without load. 

post #865 of 11263
Thread Starter 

Ok, guys. I have added a poll on page 1: What is the feature that you want most from Fiio X5's successor? You can have only one choice. 

Please remember, though, the main purpose of this X5 thread is for James Fiio to share information about X5 with us.  Please try not to derail this X5 thread with requests for future features (explanation/elaboration of your choice is NOT recommended and I may or may not add your requested feature in the poll).

post #866 of 11263

I have a feeling they will do one of the fancy things in the list or something else anyway... I just want the factory firmware to support m3u lists, and gapless when playing those m3u lists like Cowons or Rockbox'd DAPs (in other words, gapless not limited to the album playback or whatever in the current X3).

 

That way I can just copy and paste the entire music, folders and m3u lists in my modded 5G without creating lists from scratch within the DAP.  It's a process too long if I have to select over a thousand files one by one, to recreate the lists I'm using now.

 

Proper m3u support like Cowon and Rockbox'd DAPs will make life easier for those users coming into Fiio DAPs.  It's also easy for people using m3u lists in their PC, as it's easy to make these lists with Foobar or Winamp or WMP etc.

post #867 of 11263

I saw the poll, used my vote but I am disappointed. I can't imagine how people run after fancy dac chips while the chip itself is not important but how it is builded and the all system on the board matters. Still, it is a nice idea to put the poll. Thanks zzffnn wink.gif

post #868 of 11263
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenki14 View Post

I have a feeling they will do one of the fancy things in the list or something else anyway... I just want the factory firmware to support m3u lists, and gapless when playing those m3u lists like Cowons or Rockbox'd DAPs (in other words, gapless not limited to the album playback or whatever in the current X3).

That way I can just copy and paste the entire music, folders and m3u lists in my modded 5G without creating lists from scratch within the DAP.  It's a process too long if I have to select over a thousand files one by one, to recreate the lists I'm using now.

Proper m3u support like Cowon and Rockbox'd DAPs will make life easier for those users coming into Fiio DAPs.  It's also easy for people using m3u lists in their PC, as it's easy to make these lists with Foobar or Winamp or WMP etc.

Fiio / James did say that firmware/UI and sound/power improvement will be there on X5, which is why I did not list those in the feature poll.

Did James say that m3u list and gapless is NOT possible on X3? I would not be too surprised if a future firmware update for X3 provides m3u list and gapless. Also there is a X3 firmware thread at Fiio's forum for specific request.
post #869 of 11263
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzffnn View Post


Fiio / James did say that firmware/UI and sound/power improvement will be there on X5, which is why I did not list those in the feature poll.

Did James say that m3u list and gapless is NOT possible on X3? I would not be too surprised if a future firmware update for X3 provides m3u list and gapless. Also there is a X3 firmware thread at Fiio's forum for specific request.

 

Well I suppose it's equally important to post here too since it's the next DAP coming... and I hesitate to post the same material on the X3 firmware thread as it's like spamming, and I don't have an X3 (I feel Fiio's attention should first go to X3 users there reporting the current issues).

 

I remember in the X3 thread James mentioning m3u support is a "maybe" for now. Also at the moment gapless in the regular file browing playback looks to be impossible, so users are advised to just use album playback for now (sort the albums in individual folders). Maybe these two are related, because m3u support means gapless m3u support will be desirable at the same time.

 

Anyway this is not in a rush. I just hope it will happen sometime. If it's a hardware related issue then I only have hopes for the next hardware..

 

 

Interesting pole by the way... although it shows how people are controlled by the name value of Sabre.. and I can't be the one saying out loud since I just bought a DAC for home with ES9018.

post #870 of 11263
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post

Optical output is much harder than coaxial out. Coaxial out is enough. 


First of all thank you so much for your dissertation about the difference betwen the two out.

 

Anyway, I just have the optical in in my pre- amplifier so I think i'll buy a optical to coaxial switcher... or will i loose something?

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