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Fiio X5 Thread - info updated on Jan 17th 2014 - Page 83

post #1231 of 7291
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkcc View Post


You would anyway need a desktop rig to get close to driving those 300 or 600ohm cans properly. Even an entry level Magni at $99 will give you 130mW at 600ohm. What would Fiio achieve even if they double (to 60mW), or even triple (90) the X3 power? You still cannot drive these cans properly. Trying to power high impedance cans with portables is inherently a fool's errand.

 

but it would be nice to see a DAP capable to drive it... the DX100 by iBasso is the best example

 

not at all trying to compete the X5 with DX100 as there's huge gap in the price factor :)

post #1232 of 7291
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicHolyGhost View Post

Or X5 is in fact ZX1 minus the wifi and bluetooth?

Would not say so. The IC including clock resistors capacitors etc. would be 10$ + hw sw engineering 50$ per unit. Still the X5 wouldnt be the price of the zx.

Actually it was just a fun comment from me. I would not compare those two, because the sony is a special limited anniversary device.
post #1233 of 7291
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkcc View Post

You would anyway need a desktop rig to get close to driving those 300 or 600ohm cans properly. Even an entry level Magni at $99 will give you 130mW at 600ohm. What would Fiio achieve even if they double (to 60mW), or even triple (90) the X3 power? You still cannot drive these cans properly. Trying to power high impedance cans with portables is inherently a fool's errand.

Sorry, but I would not call it "inherently a fool's errand". "Properly" is relative -- your proper 120db peak sound level may be too loud or even painful for someone else's music/preference. Especially when you are listening to quiet classical music loudly, while the other guy is listening to hot-mastered Rock at low levels.

It is nice to get peak level to over 120db. However, Many people don't go over 85 db in average listening volume and many ordinary recordings do not have more than 25db difference between average volume and peak volume (some difference is lower than 12db). So to get 115db peak from an ordinary recording, one may have to turn up your average listening volume to over 90db, which may be too loud for some ears. Long term listening at 90db may not be healthy for your ears either.

There is no doubt that a stationary amp may perform better than portables. However, just from sound level perspective, even Fiio X3's output power can achieve 111db from HD600s (or 114db from HD650). Many non-classical listeners may be reasonably happy with 115db; those who listen quietly may be fine with even 110db. When a listener choose to listen portablely, he/she may not mind slightly trade-off.

Hifiman or Audeze orthos are a different story, which are better off with stationary amps. Still, many Headfiers run those portably. I doubt any portable rigs can drive LCD-2s to over 120db.
Edited by zzffnn - 9/26/13 at 10:18am
post #1234 of 7291
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzffnn View Post


Sorry, but I would not call it "inherently a fool's errand". "Properly" is relative -- your proper 120db peak sound level may be too loud or even painful for someone else's music/preference. Especially when you are listening to quiet classical music loudly, while the other guy is listening to hot-mastered Rock at low levels.

There is no doubt that a stationary amp may perform better than portables. However, just from sound level perspective, even Fiio X3's output power can achieve 111db from HD600s (or 114db from HD650). Many non-classical listeners may be reasonably happy with 115db; those who listen quietly may be fine with even 110db. When a listener choose to listen portablely, he/she may not mind slightly trade-off.

 

Volume level is only one aspect of driving the headphones.  We can agree to disagree if you cannot accept this premise.  With the HM901 I can drive even my HD800 to volume level too loud for me but does it sound right?  No. I stand by my view it doesn't make sense to drive high impedance cans on DAPs.

 

And if trade off is accepted a better solution might be to just pick the low impedance version of that can, or a model with similar characteristics.  There is a reason cans like DT880/770 etc have three versions.

 

In any case, back on-topic to X5, I believe Fiio /James had also state it wasn't their design goals to power high impedance full size cans. My question was how much power is "enough" for a DAP.  With that type of power of a HM901 you'd need to bear with short battery life, "over"heating unit, bulking battery, cannot charge via USB, among other compromises.  901 try to (and to some extend succeed) overcome heat/battery life by providing user installed amp sections that varies in power output.  But this make the unit even larger than it need to be, and still need that specialized battery in case of using high power amp board that need the larger voltage swing.

post #1235 of 7291
Thread Starter 
kkcc,
I agree that volume is not the only concern, though it is an important one.
Your 901 may not be able to drive HD800 to 115db PEAK (thus lacking impact/dynamics/soundstage/"does not sound right"), though 901 may easily deliver 105 db AVERAGE LISTENING volume to make you feel too loud.

Also headphone impedance is just one of the factors that determines sound level, headphones' sensitivity is as (if not more) important. Beyer T1s are 600ohm in impedance (twice of HD800's average 300ohm) but >=3db more sensitive than HD800s, which make them about as loud as HD800. You should look at headphone's sensitivity AND impedance when determining sound level.

As to portable full size, Beyer's T series are significantly more sensitive (easier to drive) than DT series, even though they have the same impedance.
Edited by zzffnn - 9/26/13 at 10:38am
post #1236 of 7291

Just saw James updated some pics of the UI and the upper portion of X5:L3000:.

post #1237 of 7291
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan.d View Post

Just saw James updated some pics of the UI and the upper portion of X5:L3000: .

Where did you see this?
post #1238 of 7291
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkcc View Post
 

 

Volume level is only one aspect of driving the headphones. 

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzffnn View Post

kkcc,
I agree that volume is not the only concern, though it is an important one.
 
Sorry guys for an off-topic but could you please give me a link with an explanation of the things described here.

Thanks.

post #1239 of 7291
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghardashyan View Post
 

 

Would probably have better respond to post that to the Sound Science forum.....

post #1240 of 7291
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghardashyan View Post


http://www.head-fi.org/t/656132/tips-on-how-to-choose-a-suitable-amplifier-for-your-beloved-headphone

W=U*U/R
Spec sheets (note different units and measurement methods give different values, for example some sensitivity is in db/v, while some is in db/mw)

Plus Lots of reading, testing and thinking
Edited by zzffnn - 9/27/13 at 5:55am
post #1241 of 7291

Is there's a way of the X5 serving as an external amp also ??? (apologies for my ignorance)

 

thank you


Edited by Oscarilbo - 9/27/13 at 1:57pm
post #1242 of 7291
Quote:
Originally Posted by CH23 View Post


Where did you see this?

 

His blog/twitter in China. "Weibo":wink_face: 

Looks like an ipod classic for the top portion.


Edited by ryan.d - 9/27/13 at 2:01pm
post #1243 of 7291
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan.d View Post
 

 

His blog/twitter in China. "Weibo":wink_face: 

Looks like an ipod classic for the top portion.

 

LOL you're bad - just teasing them. You mean these pics?

post #1244 of 7291
Quote:
Originally Posted by kova4a View Post
 

 

LOL you're bad - just teasing them. You mean these pics?

 

lol, yes, I was waiting for James to post these...

Really wish the screen can be bigger, but they have tried their best. It is hard to get the right size IPS screen.

post #1245 of 7291
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan.d View Post
 

 

lol, yes, I was waiting for James to post these...

Really wish the screen can be bigger, but they have tried their best. It is hard to get the right size IPS screen.

 

Ah, really? I thought you're just teasing everyone not posting the pics the whole day. My bad.

And yeah, a bigger screen would be better but I honestly prefer a good screen even if smaller and I know how hard it is to get good screens if you're not making big production runs and factory orders and Fiio probably got lucky to even get that good IPS screens even if slightly smaller.


Edited by kova4a - 9/27/13 at 2:20pm
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