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Fiio X5 Thread - info updated on Jan 17th 2014 - Page 791

post #11851 of 12756
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptravel View Post

No offense, but I can't imagine this being a high-priority change.  The X5 is, first and foremost, a high-quality DAP.  last.fm has absolutely nothing to do with and, moreover, is something that only those with an interest in last.fm will use (personally, I prefer Pandora).  Fixing the 5800 file limit, improvements to tagging and search, tweaks to the GUI -- these are of far more interest to most people than a kludge to an outboard WiFi adapter and an interface to a specific on-line service solely for the purpose of updating it about your musical tastes.  If that's really important to you, then I respectfully suggest that you're not really interested in a high-quality DAP and would do better using your cellphone.

This is something I notice a lot in this forum -- people assuming that the way they want their music delivered is the ONLY way that music should be delivered.  That's truly short-sighted.  For example, I only listen to full albums and I'm perfectly happy with the folder listing capability of the X5.  However, I acknowledge that many people like to listen by artist or genre, or enjoy random shuffle of songs, so I agree that the 5800 file limit for tags is important (I even suggested a way that it could be done which, from what I understand, is the approach that the Fiio engineers are working on).  

I don't know much about last.fm man, but I think people want to have both (i.e. listening to last.fm stuff with a high-quality DAP, which then allows then to switch back to their high quality loseless files as and when they want). I agree with your point about how some features are more sought after, but I am afraid I cannot accept your point that last.fm users should use cellphones

PS: And the user you have quoted is not requesting for such support; he/she is referring to ReplayGain support.
Edited by darkarn - 8/17/14 at 6:00pm
post #11852 of 12756
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptravel View Post
 

 

No offense, but I can't imagine this being a high-priority change.  The X5 is, first and foremost, a high-quality DAP.  last.fm has absolutely nothing to do with and, moreover, is something that only those with an interest in last.fm will use (personally, I prefer Pandora).  Fixing the 5800 file limit, improvements to tagging and search, tweaks to the GUI -- these are of far more interest to most people than a kludge to an outboard WiFi adapter and an interface to a specific on-line service solely for the purpose of updating it about your musical tastes.  If that's really important to you, then I respectfully suggest that you're not really interested in a high-quality DAP and would do better using your cellphone.

 

This is something I notice a lot in this forum -- people assuming that the way they want their music delivered is the ONLY way that music should be delivered.  That's truly short-sighted.  For example, I only listen to full albums and I'm perfectly happy with the folder listing capability of the X5.  However, I acknowledge that many people like to listen by artist or genre, or enjoy random shuffle of songs, so I agree that the 5800 file limit for tags is important (I even suggested a way that it could be done which, from what I understand, is the approach that the Fiio engineers are working on).  

 

Ummmm - if you actually go back through what Arcright00 was asking - it was actually about replaygain (which I thought was a pretty legitimate comment even though its inclusion doesn't bother me).  He didn't mention anything about last.fm or scrobbling.  I think you've got your wires crossed. ;)

post #11853 of 12756
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkarn View Post


I don't know much about last.fm man, but I think people want to have both (i.e. listening to last.fm stuff with a high-quality DAP, which then allows then to switch back to their high quality loseless files as and when they want). I agree with your point about how some features are more sought after, but I am afraid I cannot accept your point that last.fm users should use cellphones

PS: And the user you have quoted is not requesting for such support; he/she is referring to ReplayGain support.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post
 

 

Ummmm - if you actually go back through what Arcright00 was asking - it was actually about replaygain (which I thought was a pretty legitimate comment even though its inclusion doesn't bother me).  He didn't mention anything about last.fm or scrobbling.  I think you've got your wires crossed. ;)

My mistake re: replay gain, and my apologies to Arcright00.  

 

However, with respect to last.fm, the X5 is distinguished from the typical MP3 player (or cellphone) in its ability to play high-bit rate, lossless music files -- it's not a general purpose AV player.  It could, I suppose, play videos (with a bigger screen), let you read audio books, etc., but that's not its niche.  I think it's fair to say that the target demographic for the X5 is the audiophile on a budget -- someone interested in listening to their music at the highest quality possible within what they can afford to spend.  That's why there's so much discussion about the best headphones to use, the best phone amps, cables, etc.  last.fm?  What has that to do with the listening experience on the X5?

post #11854 of 12756
For my use anyway you nailed it Ptravel. The idea that I can own such a portable high quality piece of source gear in my pocket just blows me away. The fact that I can play lossless CD quality and even above CD quality audio with an oustanding trio of a geat headphone out, line out, and even a digital out (wow!) for the price I paid is something that never even crossed my mind as possible five years ago. Whether it'll catalog 4000 songs or 8000 or the quirks in it's interface hardly take away from what is just an amazing device IMHO. That being said...if I could pick two things I would like to see changed in the future it would be being able to shuffle play at the folder level while including all subfolders, and the ability to remove songs from in-player generated playlists.
post #11855 of 12756
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptravel View Post
 

 

 

My mistake re: replay gain, and my apologies to Arcright00.  

 

However, with respect to last.fm, the X5 is distinguished from the typical MP3 player (or cellphone) in its ability to play high-bit rate, lossless music files -- it's not a general purpose AV player.  It could, I suppose, play videos (with a bigger screen), let you read audio books, etc., but that's not its niche.  I think it's fair to say that the target demographic for the X5 is the audiophile on a budget -- someone interested in listening to their music at the highest quality possible within what they can afford to spend.  That's why there's so much discussion about the best headphones to use, the best phone amps, cables, etc.  last.fm?  What has that to do with the listening experience on the X5?

 

Hmm... How about the ability to listen to last.fm in even higher quality than cellphones? Don't forget that the X5 has a more powerful amp and DAC to boot; I am sure many users here will want to utilise these for a better last.fm experience (i.e. they don't want to be confined to the SQ of the cellphones)

 

There's a reason why DAPs with Wi-Fi capability (like the DX100) are popular, but they are way expensive compared to the X5, hence the demand.

post #11856 of 12756
It was never the intent for these devices to support that. I'd like to be able to listen to siriusxm on my x5, but i know that'll never happen, and I'm fine with that. That's why I use my beyerdynamic a200p.
post #11857 of 12756
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkarn View Post
 

 

Hmm... How about the ability to listen to last.fm in even higher quality than cellphones? Don't forget that the X5 has a more powerful amp and DAC to boot; I am sure many users here will want to utilise these for a better last.fm experience (i.e. they don't want to be confined to the SQ of the cellphones)

 

There's a reason why DAPs with Wi-Fi capability (like the DX100) are popular, but they are way expensive compared to the X5, hence the demand.

 

I'm sure there are some people for whom this a make-or-break feature.  I simply don't believe that is true of most people who buy the X5.  I assume a company like Fiio does research into its target demographic before it invests all the R&D, engineering and marketing into a new product.  The product they came up with was a low-cost, high-quality DAP.  WiFi streaming capability would add hardware, require considerably more code which, in turn, would require more internal memory and, in turn, require a higher price point while not fitting in with the primary mission of Fiio, i.e. low-cost, high-quality DAP.  Would it be a nice feature?  For some, but definitely not for all.  I've had some form or other of DAP since the early 90s.  I've never had one that streamed WiFi.  Would I use that feature?  Maybe, though nowhere near as often as I use my X5.  Am I typical of X5 users?  I don't know, but I do know that, if the X5 cost an extra $50 to include WiFi streaming, I would have had to think twice before buying it and I suspect I'm not the only one.

 

No one can make an electronic device that is all things to all people -- that is true for DAPs, for laptops, for tablets, for cellphones -- you name it.  Fiio has, wisely in my view, identified an available niche that it could successfully exploit: low-cost, high audio quality, DAPs, DACs and amps.  The X5 is their latest product iteration for this niche and, at least in my view, it is a brilliant product that does 95% of what it is supposed to do.  The remaining 5% will be taken care of when Fiio perfects its tagging capabilities (a feature I don't use, by the way, but one that is a necessary component for a DAP), including solving the 5800 file limitation for tagged searches, and playlists (another feature I don't use, but also an expected part of a DAP).  Fiio's marketing and sales departments could tell you better than I which would cost them more customers: adding $50 to the cost or not including WiFi.  However, Fiio is a very smart company and I suspect the design of the X5 reflects the answer.

post #11858 of 12756

Fair enough, I am just pointing out that some users will want to have an all-in-one device that can do all that, and happen to be also in that niche market you speak of, hence explaining why they would ask for such last.fm support. Whether Fiio wants to make that (or any other modifications to the FW) happen is their decision.

post #11859 of 12756
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkarn View Post

Fair enough, I am just pointing out that some users will want to have an all-in-one device that can do all that, and happen to be also in that niche market you speak of, hence explaining why they would ask for such last.fm support. Whether Fiio wants to make that (or any other modifications to the FW) happen is their decision.

Last.Fm goes against everything FiiO has designed the X5 to be, which is a high quality/fidelity music player. Streaming services like Pandora and Last.fm stream at low bit rates that, to be quite honest, would sound like schiit on the X5. The transparent DAC and high quality amp in the X5 would reveal just how poor the streamed music quality can be. Streaming audio requires a lot of compression. You seriously don't want that on the X5, especially if it comes at a higher price.

Also, don't forget that the FW is custom built for one purpose. You can not create apps for it and there are no SDK kits to develop one, and it's never, ever going to happen on the X5. If you want an all in one device then use a smartphone, which can sound pretty good. If you want a purpose built high quality music player at a very reasonable price buy an X5.
Edited by x RELIC x - 8/18/14 at 12:14am
post #11860 of 12756

@ FiiO (James/Joe/SE - When my X5 was still at the previous official FW (2.0) I could fast forward and still listen at the track I was playing. Now on the 2.2 FW there is no music whilst fast forwarding, why is that? Could you please fix that in the next FW? Thanks

 

Despite the above, the 2.2 FW is great, especially the cover.jpg and resume mode, please keep up the good work you're doing a fantastic job!

post #11861 of 12756
Last.fm isn't a streaming service?

last.fm is a way to keep track of what you play, and how many times you've played it.

You got it all wrong.
post #11862 of 12756
Quote:
Originally Posted by CH23 View Post

Last.fm isn't a streaming service?

last.fm is a way to keep track of what you play, and how many times you've played it.

You got it all wrong.

I don't use Last.fm but I see that as of April 28/2014 they have stopped their streaming service. So I WAS right, just not anymore. wink.gif

I see Last.fm as a glorified Apple Genius recommendation service with more links to social media telling you what you played and what others are listening to. It's basically a discovery service that is beyond the capabilities of the X5. It'll never happen.
post #11863 of 12756
Quote:
Originally Posted by x RELIC x View Post

I don't use Last.fm but I see that as of April 28/2014 they have stopped their streaming service. So I WAS right, just not anymore. wink.gif

I see Last.fm as a glorified Apple Genius recommendation service with more links to social media telling you what you played and what others are listening to. It's basically a discovery service that is beyond the capabilities of the X5. It'll never happen.

You see last.fm in a different way than what we actually ask for.
The X5 saves a list of played tracks, and number of times it has been played. This you then sync to last.fm when you connect the X5 to your PC.

That's it. No music discovery, no streaming. Just a playcount list.
post #11864 of 12756
Quote:
Originally Posted by x RELIC x View Post


Last.Fm goes against everything FiiO has designed the X5 to be, which is a high quality/fidelity music player. Streaming services like Pandora and Last.fm stream at low bit rates that, to be quite honest, would sound like schiit on the X5. The transparent DAC and high quality amp in the X5 would reveal just how poor the streamed music quality can be. Streaming audio requires a lot of compression. You seriously don't want that on the X5, especially if it comes at a higher price.
 

Kind of wish I'd not brought up last.fm now.

 

But, for the record, I don't listen to last.fm or want wi-fi.  I'd just like my scrobbles/listens counted - I only use last.fm to track what I've listened to.

 

I understand that the X5 is for high quality music first and foremost - that's why I bought it. 

 

ReplyGain is the only thing I think that's important, that the X5 can't do.  I can live with everything else.

post #11865 of 12756
Quote:
Originally Posted by CH23 View Post

You see last.fm in a different way than what we actually ask for.
The X5 saves a list of played tracks, and number of times it has been played. This you then sync to last.fm when you connect the X5 to your PC.

That's it. No music discovery, no streaming. Just a playcount list.

Ooooooooooooh!

Well, ok, I see how that can be helpful for people who use Last.fm on their PC. But that isn't what was being requested in some of the previous posts, such as the one I replied to initially.

I'll bow out of this one.
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