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Ultrasone Edition 12 announced in Japan - Page 21

post #301 of 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by figaro69 View Post
 

Yes...specially for low volume listening, chamber works, and opera.  This horse has joined the stable.

Congrats and thanks again for your honest assessments too!

post #302 of 311

What a journey it has been with these quirky and capricious headphones.  These Ed12s are chameleons.  So, thinking about what Mohawk had to say, I just plug in the damn phones straight from the jack of my Marantz SACD 8003 player.  This is the best the headphones have sounded so far.  Great with Rock, great with Classical.  Now I'm flustered...so these headphones do not benefit from amplification?  But wait, then I take out the Decware taboo tube amp to see what gives.  Well, this is quite something now!  I've read all over head-fi that the Ultrasones do not sound good out of tube amps.  Au contraire, mon frère.  This is it.  Finally.  We have a winner.  So what tubes am I using right now with the Taboo?  Here we go:  Philips 5R4GYS as a rectifier.  Two Philips/Mullard 6BQ5/EL-84 outpout tubes.  One Mullard CV4004/12AXT input tube.  I got all those tubes from Upscale Audio some time ago and I am not going to lie to you, they were kind of expensive (check out their website).   So, as you can see, I am trying extra hard to warm things up with the Mullards.  Lo and behold...it worked.  Now we have a world class pair of headphones.  Now everything works.  No more sibilance.  No more upper mid treble problems.  Now everything works.  Simply wonderful.  These suddenly become rather good all-rounders.  So, forget about Solid State amps...tubes is the way to go with these babies.  I have some tube rolling to do (plenty of potential variations in my tube box), so I'll let you guys know how things shape up.  Wow...who would've thunk it!!!

post #303 of 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by figaro69 View Post

What a journey it has been with these quirky and capricious headphones.  These Ed12s are chameleons.  So, thinking about what Mohawk had to say, I just plug in the damn phones straight from the jack of my Marantz SACD 8003 player.  This is the best the headphones have sounded so far.  Great with Rock, great with Classical.  Now I'm flustered...so these headphones do not benefit from amplification?  But wait, then I take out the Decware taboo tube amp to see what gives.  Well, this is quite something now!  I've read all over head-fi that the Ultrasones do not sound good out of tube amps.  Au contraire, mon frère.  This is it.  Finally.  We have a winner.  So what tubes am I using right now with the Taboo?  Here we go:  Philips 5R4GYS as a rectifier.  Two Philips/Mullard 6BQ5/EL-84 outpout tubes.  One Mullard CV4004/12AXT input tube.  I got all those tubes from Upscale Audio some time ago and I am not going to lie to you, they were kind of expensive (check out their website).   So, as you can see, I am trying extra hard to warm things up with the Mullards.  Lo and behold...it worked.  Now we have a world class pair of headphones.  Now everything works.  No more sibilance.  No more upper mid treble problems.  Now everything works.  Simply wonderful.  These suddenly become rather good all-rounders.  So, forget about Solid State amps...tubes is the way to go with these babies.  I have some tube rolling to do (plenty of potential variations in my tube box), so I'll let you guys know how things shape up.  Wow...who would've thunk it!!!

Or is it that simplicity is key? We know the head-amp in my CD player is just a simple op-amp affair, the Decware is a simple tube circuit, and I tried looking up the Marantz and they use something called a 'current buffer amplifier' and from their literature I noted that they have a bias against op-amps. I've been trying for the past 10 minutes to find a picture of the inside of your CD player to see what the circuit is. It's asking a lot, but would you take a look inside and see how the amp is wired? I'm wondering if the key here is not valves, nor power output, but part count. I'm glad to hear that the Decware turned out being the amp for them. I thought I was nuts for lusting over that amp for a month solid, but perhaps my intuition was right on track. Sadly, I'm really not a fan of the looks of tubes, so for the moment I think I'll play the SS holdout.
post #304 of 311
Imho a headphone must be quite neutral in the mid and treble section of the spectrum. The ED 12 as described here is the opposite just like the Ed 10. Sure the amp can help when it equalises the treble region technically, either by contruction or by being very simple done, but my wallet is closed, basta.
post #305 of 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by MohawkUS View Post

I certainly don't agree about them not being all-rounders. My genre of choice is black metal, a 'busier' style of music would be hard to find. I'd say they are great with anything that relies on soundstaging and ambiance(classical and black metal share that one) as well as anything with the human voice.

Interesting that you found them to sound best with the more powerful amplifier, as these are the most efficient headphones I've heard yet.(Even more so than Grado, the Beyer T90 is a close second though) Could it be an impedance issue? I know when I had the PRO2900s having too high output impedance left them harsh and painful sounding. Though the 2900s were strangely the least efficient headphone that I've owned. If you don't mind, would you try them again with the Grace now that you're more accustomed to the S-Logic? My experience was pretty much the same as yours up to your saying they don't work well with busier classical, and I never switched amps. I'd also ask what DAC you are using, perhaps you've simply found it's limitations? redface.gif

You really must hear these with a turntable setup and some good metal. Blurry? They may not be quite so fast as my STAX or the HE-6 but they're well ahead of any other dynamic I've had the pleasure of owning. At this level of speed you aren't missing any notes, it's just a matter of how much of the reverb is presented.(The Stax/HFM are slackers here, I may even say they have un-natural speed as it is accomplished by only presenting the first half of the note.)

Try this music out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EXwWcXnouc (the intro sounds amazing, these are great with drums) and I'll crack open one of the busier classical records I've got sitting around here once I am home this evening to see if I can hear what you are talking about. normal_smile%20.gif

As a metal head I find it strange that you're using black metal to form an opinion about a set of cans. It's been my experience that black and death metal, which I love by the way, has some of the worst production of any music and although you can improve it's sound there seems to always be a lacking quality. I did however find the new Amon Amarth to be a huge step up in production but still find it choppy in places.

Anyways. I mean no offense. Just wondering what you're listening to. I'm interested!!!
post #306 of 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawdawg3234 View Post

As a metal head I find it strange that you're using black metal to form an opinion about a set of cans. It's been my experience that black and death metal, which I love by the way, has some of the worst production of any music and although you can improve it's sound there seems to always be a lacking quality. I did however find the new Amon Amarth to be a huge step up in production but still find it choppy in places.

Anyways. I mean no offense. Just wondering what you're listening to. I'm interested!!!

If a pair of headphones makes my metal unlistenable, it has to go. That's why I generally start my tests with black metal. Contrary to popular belief, I've found the higher end and more resolving headphones I've tried make the music much easier to listen to. These are nothing like the lower end Ultrasones which can sound quite glassy.

Personally I stick to the Eastern European and underground American scenes. My favorite band is probably Hate Forest, I get the music on vinyl as the production quality is a tad better, but it's still hard music for a headphone to play accurately without becoming too harsh. I don't find the ED12s bright in the normal sense of the word, there certainly is no harshness or fatigue with their brightness because they have that 'velvety treble' they talk about on their product page. They maintain a good balance, as they have that smoothness but still maintain accurate timbre and perfect speed/attack.

As for my other music tastes, ambient is a big genre for me but the lack of real instruments makes it hard to use for testing purposes. I also enjoy folk, classical, opera, and polka(don't judge tongue.gif) but don't have enough experience with any of those genres to really know what sounds right. All I can say is that I've had chills going down my spine with a few Ivan Rebroff songs.

Anyway, I still do plan on doing a full review for these in the future. I'm planning on taking part in a loaner program for the Bakoon HPA21 which I have a gut feeling will be a good match with these. I really don't know how much of the sound I'm enjoying now is due in part to my vintage receivers.
post #307 of 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by MohawkUS View Post


If a pair of headphones makes my metal unlistenable, it has to go. That's why I generally start my tests with black metal. Contrary to popular belief, I've found the higher end and more resolving headphones I've tried make the music much easier to listen to. These are nothing like the lower end Ultrasones which can sound quite glassy.

Personally I stick to the Eastern European and underground American scenes. My favorite band is probably Hate Forest, I get the music on vinyl as the production quality is a tad better, but it's still hard music for a headphone to play accurately without becoming too harsh. I don't find the ED12s bright in the normal sense of the word, there certainly is no harshness or fatigue with their brightness because they have that 'velvety treble' they talk about on their product page. They maintain a good balance, as they have that smoothness but still maintain accurate timbre and perfect speed/attack.

As for my other music tastes, ambient is a big genre for me but the lack of real instruments makes it hard to use for testing purposes. I also enjoy folk, classical, opera, and polka(don't judge tongue.gif) but don't have enough experience with any of those genres to really know what sounds right. All I can say is that I've had chills going down my spine with a few Ivan Rebroff songs.

Anyway, I still do plan on doing a full review for these in the future. I'm planning on taking part in a loaner program for the Bakoon HPA21 which I have a gut feeling will be a good match with these. I really don't know how much of the sound I'm enjoying now is due in part to my vintage receivers.

I agree 100% that black and death metal can really bring out the shortcomings of headphones very quickly.  I tend to have a few songs that I run through, as i'm sure do others, when first testing out a new, to me, pair of headphones.  Hands down my favorite song at the moment for such testing is King of Asgards "the Last Journey".  If the drum tracks when the song first picks up are tolerable than that is saying a lot for the headphones, obviously production has a lot to do with. 

 

Also to stay on topic I use the intro to the same song to test for sibilance, which most people have an issue with when listening to Ultrasones.  I've not heard the Ed 12's and would love a chance to do so or at least hear a review from someone who loves the Ed 10's like only a select few that I know of do, myself included.  I tend to find that most of the edition series benefits greatly from under amplification and their forgiving nature makes them perfect for "faster" styles of music where pace and rhythm is a bit more important than precision.

post #308 of 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawdawg3234 View Post

I agree 100% that black and death metal can really bring out the shortcomings of headphones very quickly.  I tend to have a few songs that I run through, as i'm sure do others, when first testing out a new, to me, pair of headphones.  Hands down my favorite song at the moment for such testing is King of Asgards "the Last Journey".  If the drum tracks when the song first picks up are tolerable than that is saying a lot for the headphones, obviously production has a lot to do with. 

Also to stay on topic I use the intro to the same song to test for sibilance, which most people have an issue with when listening to Ultrasones.  I've not heard the Ed 12's and would love a chance to do so or at least hear a review from someone who loves the Ed 10's like only a select few that I know of do, myself included.  I tend to find that most of the edition series benefits greatly from under amplification and their forgiving nature makes them perfect for "faster" styles of music where pace and rhythm is a bit more important than precision.

Pretty good song there. Unfortunately the review with the Bakoon is off, the store offering the 'free trial' requires a 100% down payment on the product to do the trial. And I don't really feel like putting down that kind of money on an amplifier with only a 6hr runtime, I work at my computer so I've got a strong feeling that wouldn't be enough time for me. When you say that the Edition phones benefit from 'under amplification' what do you mean by that? Lower powered amplification, or just good amplification? I got a feeling you don't mean they sound best under-powered. tongue.gif What amps have you tried with the 10s? I'm really not sure where to go from here... again. I keep going back and forth between my two vintage amplifiers. Both are pretty bad(though the ED12 tolerates them better than anything else, lowest noise floor at least), each of them fall pretty heavily into the stereotypical tube and SS sound.

I signed up for the Apex Teton loaner program, but based on the descriptions of it so far it probably won't be a good match, and I'm not prepared to spend that much money anyways.
post #309 of 311

Sooo...these headphones exist. I'm mildly interested. Too bad no one else is, apparently. 

 

One of my first serious cans was the Ultrasone Pro 2500. I remember enjoying the bass, sparkly highs, and overall sound presentation -- S-Logic must work for me.

So, I have always wanted to give a high-end Ultrasone a chance, although I read a lot of negative stuff especially regarding the Ed 10. 

 

Any Ed 12 owners here to chime in with overall thoughts? I read most of this thread already but some new input would be nice.

post #310 of 311
I'm still a proud owner but I don't have much to add on top of what I have said before. I still maintain that they are a high-end pair of headphones with a slight velvety sound.. basically the description Ultrasone has of them is spot on. If you're ever in CT feel free to send me a message, sadly it appears US isn't even trying(by that I mean having demo models available or review samples sent out.)
post #311 of 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voohoo View Post
 

Sooo...these headphones exist. I'm mildly interested. Too bad no one else is, apparently. 

 

One of my first serious cans was the Ultrasone Pro 2500. I remember enjoying the bass, sparkly highs, and overall sound presentation -- S-Logic must work for me.

So, I have always wanted to give a high-end Ultrasone a chance, although I read a lot of negative stuff especially regarding the Ed 10. 

 

Any Ed 12 owners here to chime in with overall thoughts? I read most of this thread already but some new input would be nice.


You might want to check this:

 

http://en.goldenears.net/40137

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