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Ultrasone Edition 12 announced in Japan - Page 19

post #271 of 433

Got them today at work, finally.  Haven't had time to play them yet.  These things are as light as a feather.  The Ruthenium feels like plastic (more so than it does in the Edition 8s, which feel much more substantial).  Now, these phones have to be the most comfortable ever...even  more comfortable than the HD800s and T1s (it's not even close).  You just don't feel these things over your head, as they exert no stress or weight.  Once again...they look nice, but too plasticky.  These will scratch easily if I'm not careful, especially the rim around the cup (i.e., looks vulnerable).  The packaging: bare bones; reminds me of the boxes that Grado uses to house their phones.  By the way, the Cover of the box (i.e., the one showing the picture of headphones) is a bitch to slip out of the box.  A small felt fabric to clean them is included, but nothing else.  You are paying for the headphones and that's it, which is okay in my book (i.e., I've mentioned the aforementioned presentation details for those of you who may care about it...I hate fancy packaging...spend all the money in giving me great sound).  I'm watching the Miami Heat game tonight, so expect my first impressions at about 11pm EST.

post #272 of 433

Look forward to your impressions figaro69.  Not that I've had the opportunity to hear them myself but I would suggest giving them some time to warm up as well as letting your ears adjust.

 

If I am not mistaken the ED8 - 10 and 12 are all plastic cups merely coated in Ruthenium ... hence the lightweight and "plastiky feel" you may be referring to.  Enjoy them !!

post #273 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortalcoil View Post
 

Look forward to your impressions figaro69.  Not that I've had the opportunity to hear them myself but I would suggest giving them some time to warm up as well as letting your ears adjust.

 

If I am not mistaken the ED8 - 10 and 12 are all plastic cups merely coated in Ruthenium ... hence the lightweight and "plastiky feel" you may be referring to.  Enjoy them !!

yes...but the Edition 8s feel heavier.  Even though they are portable, they are heavy compared to the Edition 12s.  Yes, I've heard that the pro-logic system they use (i.e., I believe it's just angled drivers that are placed lower in the cup being given a fancy name) takes some time for you to get used to, but such was not the case for me with the Edition 8s...but the Edition 12s are open headphones, so the initial impressions may, indeed, be misleading until my ears adjust.  After the Miami Heat/Phoenix Suns game (not to mention after my wife and kids are in bed and I get no interruptions or unwanted noise) I'll post my initial impressions, which are likely to change as I become more used to them.

post #274 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by figaro69 View Post

yes...but the Edition 8s feel heavier.  Even though they are portable, they are heavy compared to the Edition 12s.  Yes, I've heard that the pro-logic system they use (i.e., I believe it's just angled drivers that are placed lower in the cup being given a fancy name) takes some time for you to get used to, but such was not the case for me with the Edition 8s...but the Edition 12s are open headphones, so the initial impressions may, indeed, be misleading until my ears adjust.  After the Miami Heat/Phoenix Suns game (not to mention after my wife and kids are in bed and I get no interruptions or unwanted noise) I'll post my initial impressions, which are likely to change as I become more used to them.

Yeah, give yourself a good 5 hours worth of music to adjust to the presentation of these. The S-logic sounds really odd at first. Also let us know if you hear any difference in sound over the first few hundred hours. I bought mine open box(someone else got to compare them to the LCD-3s for 30 days) so I missed out on the burn in if there was any.
post #275 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by figaro69 View Post
 

Got them today at work, finally.  Haven't had time to play them yet.  These things are as light as a feather.  The Ruthenium feels like plastic (more so than it does in the Edition 8s, which feel much more substantial).  Now, these phones have to be the most comfortable ever...even  more comfortable than the HD800s and T1s (it's not even close).  You just don't feel these things over your head, as they exert no stress or weight.  Once again...they look nice, but too plasticky.  These will scratch easily if I'm not careful, especially the rim around the cup (i.e., looks vulnerable).  The packaging: bare bones; reminds me of the boxes that Grado uses to house their phones.  By the way, the Cover of the box (i.e., the one showing the picture of headphones) is a bitch to slip out of the box.  A small felt fabric to clean them is included, but nothing else.  You are paying for the headphones and that's it, which is okay in my book (i.e., I've mentioned the aforementioned presentation details for those of you who may care about it...I hate fancy packaging...spend all the money in giving me great sound).  I'm watching the Miami Heat game tonight, so expect my first impressions at about 11pm EST.

Looking forward to your impressions on how they sound. :popcorn:

post #276 of 433

All right, boys and girls!!! the time has come for Figaro to report from battle with the Edition 12s.  Oh, my goodness gracious...where to begin.  Now mind you, I haven't burned these phones...this is sound straight out of the box. 

 

First I chose the use the Grace 902, a headamp known to be clinical and bright.  Disaster.  Unlistenable.  Piercing highs.  I'm making faces like Tyll Hertsens in his famous Edition 10 video.  Screechy, fingernails-to-the-chalkboard kind of sound.  Moreover, the sound out of the headphones is inchoate, amorphous, brittle, diffuse, and just plain weird.  Sounded as if the sound was surrounded by a miasma-like mist that could not let you see through.  Sounds coming from up, down, left right, from the top of your head, from the back of your head...the weirdest thing I've heard in my life. 

 

This is S-Logic at work, my friends.  I was familiar with S-Logic from the Edition 8s I own, but this was something completely different and just plain bizarre.  I listen to Mendelssohn's Scottish Symphony, Wagner's Tannhauser overture, Mahler's Fifth Symphony...Atrocious to say the least.  Then I'm thinking...this could be a combination my ears getting accustomed to the S-Logic in an open ultrasone headphone I'm unfamiliar with, as well as an amp that provides very poor synergy with the headphones. 

 

So then I move to the Burson soloist.  Vast improvement, but still not ideal.  More choate, unified sound, but still too brightly lit to the point that the treble is too hot...but major improvement nonetheless.  Then I move to the Headroom Ultra Desktop amp, a headphone amp known for it's warmish signature/tone.  This is a major step in the right direction.  Now there are felicities, but just around the corner some calamities.  Suddenly, when there as few instruments (e.g., one violin, a duo, trio, quartet, quintet, small chamber orchestra...you get the picture) there is magic in the air...The beauty of the sound is ineffable...indescribable.  Time stands still...this is airy at it's best.  Velvety treble...non-fatiguing...oh my goodness...this is the voice of God speaking to me...The sound is suspended in air.  I'm enveloped in a cocoon of sound...spellbinding...brings tears to my eyes and a knot to my throat.  Bach's Brandenburg concertos and his Mass in B minor sound amazing.  The symphonic adagios have never sounded this good.  But then, play a busy symphonic passage such as those presented by Mahler and Shostakovich, and suddenly calamity strikes.  Congested, turgid, blurry tuttis...mud all over the place where there should be a glorious explosion of clearly defined sounds.  The upper mids/lower highs strike me as the most problematic area.  While operatic voices for the most part sound okay, the voice of the tenor (in this case Pavarotti in his famous La Boheme recording conducted by Von Karajan) sounds as if he has a cold...constristed and earthbound, while the voices of the soprano, baritone, and bass sound glorious...go figure. 

 

Then, I decide to move on to what I thought would be the most inadequate headamp I was going to try before calling it a night:  The Ray Samuels Darkstar, a monster specifically designed to drive the equally monstrous HE-6 (which it does drive with aplomb, I most say).  I carefully plug the headphones (single ended; the cable of the headphones have not been replaced) and suddenly the clouds part and the sun shines through.  This little frail, willowy, brittle-looking, weightless headphone shines with Godzilla driving it.  I have no idea why there is such good synergy with this power plant of an amp.  This Darkstar has a rather warm signature, warmer than the Headroom Ultra Desktop Amp.  While the Headroom amp is lacking in balls, the Darkstar has cojones to spare.  Suddenly everything is fleshed out and everything feels for the most part balanced.  The treble is crushed velvet, the mids are a thing of beauty, and the bass, while relatively lean, is just perfect for classical music.  But there is still a minor problem: that upper-mid/lower-high region still sounds a little congested, just where the voice of the tenor for the most part falls...mind you, Pavarotti's high Cs sound amazing, but his mid-high notes are still slightly constricted at times, although now it is just barely noticeable. 

 

One thing that I must emphasize is that these Headphones were really made to listen to classical music.  They excel with music ranging from solo acoustic guitar, solo harpsichord, and small ensembles,  The classical music they truly excel at is Baroque music (e.g., Bach, Vivaldi, Telemann, Corelli, Handel, etc).  They are also extremely good with Mozart and Beethoven and only slightly less so with late romantic symphonic works such as Mahler and Shostakovich.  The more instruments there are playing together at the same time (as in Mahler's final movements), the less well defined the sound is, but this is a very minor quibble and just barely noticeable.  I found myself listening to these headphones at much lover volume levels than I am accustomed to...actually, they sound much better when playing a moderate rather than loud levels, which will be a blessing for my hearing now that I am entering my mid 40s.  I tried listening to Dire Straits with this headphones, but it was a non-starter.  This headphones were simply NOT MADE to play anything but classical music (and maybe jazz).  For that kind of music, go with the LCDs of the world.  Please, follow my advice and don't waste your money: IF YOU LISTEN ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY TO ROCK OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF POP MUSIC, STAY AWAY FROM THESE HEADPHONES AS IF THEY WERE THE PLAGUE...YOU'LL MOST LIKELY HATE THEM.  The sound with these genres is sterile, clinical, dry, and utterly lacking in romanticism. 

 

These headphones will not do well in headphone meets given that it takes a good hour (or maybe even more) to get used to the quirkiness of the S-Logic sound.  People will listen to them for five to ten minutes, find them weird and disjointed, decide not to bother with them anymore, and will eventually even write nasty reviews in Head-fi.org.  These things also appear, as mentioned above, to be quite amp-picky.  They will sound awful with amps that are lacking in power and warmth.  This is the weirdest headphone I've ever encountered...frustrating and magical by turns, but at the end of the day, quite an experience.  By the way, Mohawk, your were right about how well they sound with Opera...haven't tried organ music yet, though.  It must be mentioned that there is nothing more comfortable in the world of headphones than the Edition 12s.  You just don't feel like there is anything perched i\on you head pressing against your ears.  They just don't exist anymore after the first minute.  The HD800s are uncomfortable relative to the Edition 12s since they kind of press against your jaw area just below your ears given how long the cups are.  What an experience.  This is just the beginning.  I will continue reporting throughout the week regarding how it pairs with my other maps (e.g., EF-6 and Decware Taboo).  Oh, I forgot...the soundstage is very very large...similar to the HD800 and PS-1000.  Imaging is not as good as the HD800 given the holographic, almost 3-D qualities of this headphone (it seems like the instruments are almost floating in space all around you and sometimes it's hard to say specifically where the instrument is located, although you generally have an idea of the general area).  Boy, I've never written so much about anything else in this site...but there was, indeed, a lot to say (and a lot that remains to be said).  Thanks, Mohawk, for steering me in this direction.

 

[Mod Edit: Added paragraphs as S-Logic doesn't work with text. :wink_face:]

post #277 of 433

:blink: I myself listen to all kinds of music with a headphone. It should be good for all genres IMHO, but thank you for sharing your impressions.

post #278 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by pietcux View Post
 

:blink: I myself listen to all kinds of music with a headphone. It should be good for all genres IMHO, but thank you for sharing your impressions.

This is no all-rounder.  Buyer Beware!

post #279 of 433

Strange. it was not my feeling when I heared it briefly. :o

post #280 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrodje View Post
 

Strange. it was not my feeling when I heared it briefly. :o

Please, tell us about it.  What is your recollection from that listening experience?  What kind of music did you listen to it with?  Did the headphones already appear to have some hours under their belt?  What kind of headphones have you liked in the past, so we can have a point of reference regarding your tastes?

post #281 of 433
Figaro, thank you for sharing, keep it coming after dust has settled a bit. Seems like good old ultrasone to me from your comments. Surprisingly so as I expected them to at least do better than ed10.

What you're mentioning about amp and especially music sinergy seems typical of finding the right combination (else pair of ears) that does not excite/line up with the wild resonance mess that s-logic brings in the midrange and up.

In my opinion, what Ultrasone needs is dramatic change in the way they design headphones, starting from moving away from this silly s-logic thing. Maybe their coated diaphragms are the other half of the problem, in which case there's a long steep road ahead, but at least somewhere to start from wink.gif.
post #282 of 433

I can't really tell more. i've lived with my beloved HD800 since a few monthes and I listen nearly everything ( See my Last.fm profile in my signature ;) )  and it seems ( just feeling here not well built and experienced opinion) to my ears ed12 was smoother so I imagine that ed12 would be overally more forgiving than HD800.  I don't remember which music  tried with ed12 . Berlioz for sure but I don't remember if I tried something else. 

 

So I'm surprised to read your feedback although I haven't enough personal experience to confirm or refute your opinion.    

 

@Arnaud: Lors de mon rapide essai , le point qui m'a le plus surpris c'est que cet ed12 ne sonne justement pas du tout comme les autres Ultrasone que j'ai pu essayer. ED8,  9 , Sig pro , pro900, pro750, HFI2400... qui ont tous plus ou moins ( l'ed9 et le sig pro me semble présenter très très peu de cet aigu metallique)  des résonnances métalliques dans l'aigu et beaucoup d'énergie. Je n'ai pas ressenti ça lors de ma très brève rencontre. Evidemment je me suis peut-être totalement fourvoyé ;)

 

Sorry for these french words. It s always a pleasure for me to speak my native language here. it's often so difficult to find good english words to explain my opinion and feelings . :o 


Edited by Sorrodje - 11/26/13 at 5:54am
post #283 of 433
Sorrodje, your impressions echoe those of a friend here who has listened to the various iterations of signature and pro series.

Based on his input and what seemed like urgent need for correcting the trajectory after the ed10 calamity, I also expected a tamed down version of ed10. Changing the pad to velour should have dramatic influence on the response.

I haven't heard myself yet though, just to clarify that my points are mere conjecture (a nice way to say someone is talking from his behind smily_headphones1.gif ).

Arnaud

Ps: je suis un_casque_ou_rien sur le site francophone hcfr. Rdv la-bas?
post #284 of 433

@Arnaud: I had a chance to listen this ed12 last summer when Superfred21 had an loaned pair from Ultrasone but I hadn't any time enough. Superfred Said me precisely ed12 is a tamed version of ed10 but not a revolution. But I didn't expected so much smoothness and refinement from ed12. I definitely want to test one a few days .

 

I know HCFR . i'm there with the same pseudonym.   

post #285 of 433
I certainly don't agree about them not being all-rounders. My genre of choice is black metal, a 'busier' style of music would be hard to find. I'd say they are great with anything that relies on soundstaging and ambiance(classical and black metal share that one) as well as anything with the human voice.

Interesting that you found them to sound best with the more powerful amplifier, as these are the most efficient headphones I've heard yet.(Even more so than Grado, the Beyer T90 is a close second though) Could it be an impedance issue? I know when I had the PRO2900s having too high output impedance left them harsh and painful sounding. Though the 2900s were strangely the least efficient headphone that I've owned. If you don't mind, would you try them again with the Grace now that you're more accustomed to the S-Logic? My experience was pretty much the same as yours up to your saying they don't work well with busier classical, and I never switched amps. I'd also ask what DAC you are using, perhaps you've simply found it's limitations? redface.gif

You really must hear these with a turntable setup and some good metal. Blurry? They may not be quite so fast as my STAX or the HE-6 but they're well ahead of any other dynamic I've had the pleasure of owning. At this level of speed you aren't missing any notes, it's just a matter of how much of the reverb is presented.(The Stax/HFM are slackers here, I may even say they have un-natural speed as it is accomplished by only presenting the first half of the note.)

Try this music out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EXwWcXnouc (the intro sounds amazing, these are great with drums) and I'll crack open one of the busier classical records I've got sitting around here once I am home this evening to see if I can hear what you are talking about. normal_smile%20.gif
Edited by MohawkUS - 11/26/13 at 11:08am
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