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DX50 a new smaller DAP from iBasso. Spec. page 1. Impressions start on page. . . - Page 109  

post #1621 of 3609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achmedisdead View Post

 

Are you saying that you can hear the difference between 320cbr and V0 vbr in a listening comparison? Really? I have no doubt that some people can hear the difference between lossy and lossless (I struggle to do so), but to hear a difference between 320 and V0 I really think would be nearly impossible, assuming the  encoding was done right, proper volume matching used, etc.

 

 

None of my devices have had any difficulty with VBR. The e280 and iPod Video 5.5G, both of which were released in 2006, play VBR just fine.....all the Clip and Fuze variants I have had played it just fine. I've also had multiple Sony DAPs, multiple Samsung DAPs, a Creative Zen Mosaic, a 4G Touch and 7G Classic and 4G Shuffle, even the Mini 2G with the CF mod played them OK.  It's not quantum physics we're talking about decoding here. wink.gif

 

 

 

Absolutely agree on AAC being an excellent lossy format to use, but that assumes what I highlighted above, device compatibility. The same could be said of Ogg Vorbis as well.  

 

That's why if I have the FLAC to work with, my lossy conversion is always LAME mp3, because pretty much any device (asides from Charles Altmann's Tera Player) will play it without any fuss.

Yes. I hear a difference and no, I can't prove it and don't care to argue whether I can or not unless you have my ears and kit to compare with. I've always found that sort of challenge a bit rude. Results are often at the mercy of source, kit and expectations. I do think almost all ears are golden.bigsmile_face.gif I never said any device would have any trouble decoding VBR-0. I was referring to the Nero 400 encoder since some will not do above 320 properly. Processor load does matter a bit but  like you said, no, not rocket science. Maybe it is a bit depending on what you're doing. For instance, I've never heard a USB DAC that I thought VG and I've heard some very costly ones.

 

 

What bothers me here is that everybody has their own idea what you can and can't hear. Where is the logic in that you can hear the difference between lossless and lossy but not between 2 different lossy formats? It implies lossy is less than perfect. It would then be more logical to assume that different encode processes would also not be identical. Not why I think they aren't as I only listen for results. I've found that tech knowledge doesn't help me other than to bias a result. I even prefer aac to Lame if I had to choose between them and I'm a Windows guy..

 

 

If you compare aac 400 cbr to flac, you'll find that the low level ambience and decay is very close and better than 320 or vbr as well. The problem with the (not exactly) VBR gain riding type of setups for me is that the PRAT and low level tracking doesn't always seem to be as good. It's different enough for me to not use VBR even if there is more available bits. I'd use 256 as soon as V0 but I do agree it's personal and everybody should do what works for them. Difference is that I comment on my personal result and don't tell others what to use. I'm also a believer in HiDef because my listening results have left little doubt for me but when it comes to portable use, with limited space and less than the best kit, to each his own.bigsmile_face.gif


Edited by goodvibes - 8/2/13 at 10:00am
post #1622 of 3609
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post

Yes. I hear a difference and no, I can't prove it and don't care to argue whether I can or not unless you have my ears and kit to compare with. I've always found that sort of challenge a bit rude. Results are often at the mercy of source, kit and expectations. I do think almost all ears are golden.bigsmile_face.gif
 I never said any device would have any trouble decoding VBR-0. I was referring to the Nero 400 encoder since some will not do above 320 properly. Processor load does matter a bit but  like you said, no, not rocket science. Maybe it is a bit depending on what you're doing. For instance, I've never heard a USB DAC that I thought VG and I've heard some very costly ones.


What bothers me here is that everybody has their own idea what you can and can't hear. Where is the logic in that you can hear the difference between lossless and lossy but not between 2 different lossy formats? It implies lossy is less than perfect. It would then be more logical to assume that different encode processes would also not be identical. Not why I think they aren't as I only listen for results. I've found that tech knowledge doesn't help me other than to bias a result. I even prefer aac to Lame if I had to choose between them and I'm a Windows guy..


If you compare aac 400 cbr to flac, you'll find that the low level ambience and decay is very close and better than 320 or vbr as well. The problem with the (not exactly) VBR gain riding type of setups for me is that the PRAT and low level tracking doesn't always seem to be as good. It's different enough for me to not use VBR even if there is more available bits. I'd use 256 as soon as V0 but I do agree it's personal and everybody should do what works for them. Difference is that I comment on my personal result and don't tell others what to use. I'm also a believer in HiDef because my listening results have left little doubt for me but when it comes to portable use, with limited space and less than the best kit, to each his own.bigsmile_face.gif

Easy way to prove it. Go to any of the online DBT test sites and screenshot your results. smily_headphones1.gif
post #1623 of 3609

Please stop. PC for music is not great in my opinion and DBT has it's own set of issues. http://www.avguide.com/forums/blind-listening-tests-are-flawed-editorial?page=1 Very nonhuman way to relate an art form or message.

 Let people decide for themselves and with their own experience. I know you guys think you're the open minded ones but you're turning the board into a police state and preaching the one true faith, diverting unrelated threads. Keep it in sound science where the mods have continually asked it stay.


Edited by goodvibes - 8/2/13 at 8:20pm
post #1624 of 3609
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post

Please stop. PC for music is not great in my opinion and DBT has it's own set of issues. http://www.avguide.com/forums/blind-listening-tests-are-flawed-editorial?page=1 Very nonhuman way to relate an art form or message.

 Let people decide for themselves and with their own experience. I know you guys think you're the open minded ones but you're turning the board into a police state and preaching the one true faith, diverting unrelated threads. Keep it in sound science where the mods have continually asked it stay.

 

Robert Harley doesn't make any very convincing points. He refutes a couple poor studies among many better ones, and offers none of his own. The doctor Terje makes some very good points about how the act of seeing affects endorphins in the brain. Medicine is a good analogy. Nothing would ever be proven effective or approved legally without double blind studies proving that a medicine works without people having to look at it first. Are we listening with our ears or our eyes? 

 

I think making a claim like hearing a difference between v0 and 320 mp3s is just as rude as asking for the claimant to prove their statement with a DBT. It insults our intelligence in my humble opinion. Obtaining proof would be such a trivial thing to do, and it is never done. Just identify when a track is v0 and when one is 320 without looking at the answer. Is there a legitimate reason why this can't be done? 

 

Anyway do we have a price on the DX-50 yet? 

post #1625 of 3609
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

 

Robert Harley doesn't make any very convincing points. He refutes a couple poor studies among many better ones, and offers none of his own. The doctor Terje makes some very good points about how the act of seeing affects endorphins in the brain. Medicine is a good analogy. Nothing would ever be proven effective or approved legally without double blind studies proving that a medicine works without people having to look at it first. Are we listening with our ears or our eyes? 

 

I think making a claim like hearing a difference between v0 and 320 mp3s is just as rude as asking for the claimant to prove their statement with a DBT. It insults our intelligence in my humble opinion. Obtaining proof would be such a trivial thing to do, and it is never done. Just identify when a track is v0 and when one is 320 without looking at the answer. Is there a legitimate reason why this can't be done? 

 

Anyway do we have a price on the DX-50 yet? 

Yep, the price is $235-$270 on their website I think. This thread is rather interesting and I will probably be getting one. 

post #1626 of 3609

I hope the battery life is 20 hours+ but either way I will be getting one. Anyone know where I can preorder?

post #1627 of 3609
Quote:
Originally Posted by gav007 View Post

I hope the battery life is 20 hours+ but either way I will be getting one. Anyone know where I can preorder?

I don't think that you can yet. 

post #1628 of 3609
Quote:
Originally Posted by gav007 View Post

I hope the battery life is 20 hours+ but either way I will be getting one. Anyone know where I can preorder?

 

The Battery life will easily be 20+ Hours on the DX50 with a replaceable extended battery.

post #1629 of 3609
Thread Starter 

The batteries are easily sourced, and you can get a charger for them. Even if they last 12 hours (I don't know how long it will run) with extra batteries it will be great. IMO

post #1630 of 3609
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamato8 View Post

The batteries are easily sourced, and you can get a charger for them. Even if they last 12 hours (I don't know how long it will run) with extra batteries it will be great. IMO

Love this design. There are plenty of affordable 3rd party battery and chargers we can choose from.
post #1631 of 3609

I got a really dumb question...Is there any difference/advantage/disadvantage of DX50 against the Fiio X3 at this point? They seem very similar to me...same DAC, same onboard memory.

 

The main difference I see is that the X3 is cheaper (and is out now).

 

Since the DAC's are the same, does that likely mean the sound will be similar between both?

post #1632 of 3609
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldfishX View Post

I got a really dumb question...Is there any difference/advantage/disadvantage of DX50 against the Fiio X3 at this point? They seem very similar to me...same DAC, same onboard memory.

 

The main difference I see is that the X3 is cheaper (and is out now).

 

Since the DAC's are the same, does that likely mean the sound will be similar between both?


Nope not at all. Many get specs mixed up with implementation. Ultimately how those parts were implemented together will determine the outcome. I'm looking forward to both being compared but from my experience with ibasso and fiio I have a feeling ibasso is going to be the better unit of the two.

post #1633 of 3609

I think the DX50 will be more compared with the future X5 ...

post #1634 of 3609
I checked the battery replacement for the DX-50 to be and quite compact and affordable, they seemed to be used in the Galaxy smartphones I believe. Smart design decision here and easy on the wallet smily_headphones1.gif
post #1635 of 3609
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamato8 View Post

The batteries are easily sourced, and you can get a charger for them. Even if they last 12 hours (I don't know how long it will run) with extra batteries it will be great. IMO

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kkcc View Post


Love this design. There are plenty of affordable 3rd party battery and chargers we can choose from.

 

 

I totally agree with you both. It makes so much sense to take battery capacity and power consumption out of the equation by simply allowing instant battery swapping (and the ability to charge batteries independently of the DAP).

 

More discussion here:

 

 

http://tinyurl.com/ldkgxao

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