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JVC HA-SZ2000/1000 Impressions Thread - Page 50

post #736 of 3524

 

 

That underlined sentence. It is really important. These cans with no amp are a waste. Like an old lady with a ferrari and she's got 2 broken feet:o

 

the xb700 were nice off a Cowon and fell to pieces when amped. Bloated and distorted in the low end. You will need an amp for most cans if you want more bass than an XB of a PMP/DAP anyway. The sz will pound your skull. I stand behind that underlined sentence...I repeat it again and again. These are well beyond your 700's but like I said you need an amp. No way around that. That will go for most any can if your looking for the next level of low frequency power. xb700 is great for on the go jack into the ipod and get some bass. These cans are a big step up.

 

The 1st guy to import and review these said you need an amp. The next guy who disliked the slope but admitted the bass prowress said...get an amp. I said get an amp.

Anybody who reads this thread.....you must have an amp to reach the top of Mt Bass. Period. End of story. No way around it.

post #737 of 3524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subere View Post
 

Here are some tracks that really punch on my XB700s, but are flat on my SZ2000s:

 

 

 

Unfortunately I don't have that option when I go into my settings.

 

Thanks for the links, I'll check 'em out.

 

I can confirm this! Haha. Amazing, I'll see if I can make that kind of upper bass explode. It's in the area between 175-200Hz maybe?

 

So my previous post was about right (about your preferences).

 

Yeah, having the Windows bass boost enhancement depends on the sound driver. I think I'm using the Windows default instead of the official Realtek. Depending on your soundcard, you may find tutorials online on using a compatible driver that enables the Windows enhancements.

 

BTW I AM using a Fiio E5 amp that the historic NWavG praised so highly. Though they're alright. Loud enough for my needs. However you should feel the bass impact without an amp, as you said you did but only for sub-bass. But yeah, I really have faith in the flexibility of the SZ.

post #738 of 3524

This is a portable bass kit. It's how I test/push cans. If you do not use an amp you have not listened to any of the previous owners.

Hearing that the xb700 hit harder is.....very very odd That is like saying m50's hit as hard as Beat pro's. Something is really going wrong to be discussing 700's in here. I just went and heard them. (20 minutes ago @ EDION in Iwakuni Japan)) I already knew but something must be wrong...there is. The XB are bloated and distort rather fast on my slope. Please take the advice given by owners. Use an amp

 

I can't believe I am even typing this?

 

e12 ($100 bucks) sz2000 ($250 bucks) pair it with a DAP that has jeteffects or Elephant candy's eQU or a way to raise low end  and you got the hardest hitting cans on this site.

 

Please listen to the folks who came before you. 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Hawaiibadboy - 4/3/14 at 1:38am
post #739 of 3524

@Hawaiibadboy Why you taking everything I'm saying as an argument man? :{ I'm not saying you're wrong, I was just saying what I was getting on my end straight out of my motherboard so you guys know where I'm coming from and could help me better. I even said I'm going to get an amp and was asking about how the e17 would pair with these. You're taking everything like I'm trying to say the 700s are better or something. The only reason I brought them up is they're my only reference point.

 

After @PocketSmiley post though, I'm still a bit skeptical about getting an amp. I mean, they're not quiet or anything on my end. I can already make them go louder than is comfortable to listen to. If you turn off all of your EQ and the bass boost on your e12, do you get any punch from the two tracks I linked or do they sound flat? I have a feeling it's more about EQing and bass boost than amping. I could be straight up completely wrong though, I'm still really new to all of this, so don't come back at me like I'm calling you out or anything, because I'm not. I'm just trying to learn and the best way I know how to do that is ask questions.

post #740 of 3524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subere View Post
 

@Hawaiibadboy Why you taking everything I'm saying as an argument man? :{ I'm not saying you're wrong, I was just saying what I was getting on my end straight out of my motherboard so you guys know where I'm coming from and could help me better. I even said I'm going to get an amp and was asking about how the e17 would pair with these. You're taking everything like I'm trying to say the 700s are better or something. The only reason I brought them up is they're my only reference point.

 

After @PocketSmiley post though, I'm still a bit skeptical about getting an amp. I mean, they're not quiet or anything on my end. I can already make them go louder than is comfortable to listen to. If you turn off all of your EQ and the bass boost on your e12, do you get any punch from the two tracks I linked or do they sound flat? I have a feeling it's more about EQing and bass boost than amping. I could be straight up completely wrong though, I'm still really new to all of this, so don't come back at me like I'm calling you out or anything, because I'm not. I'm just trying to learn and the best way I know how to do that is ask questions.

 

Heya Suvere, I think it's more about Hawaii being more concerned about you getting the wrong ideas from me LOL because I'm telling you that the stock pads are OK and that you should hear the SZ impact without an amp. But I did not mean that you should not change the pads nor that you should not get an amp. In fact I was about to buy a Fiio E09K yesterday, which outputs 900mW @ 32 ohms, but when I saw the output impedance of 10 ohms I backed out.

 

Output impedance should be less than 1/8 the headphone impedance or else the voltage will drop significantly that the output can't drive the headphones. The damping factor is the ratio (headphone impedance)/(output impedance), and according to Wiki, "damping factor describes the ability of the amplifier to control undesirable movement of the speaker cone near the resonant frequency of the speaker system," and the lower the damping factor, the lower the ability of the source to control the headphone drivers especially at low frequencies so they sound boomy instead of impactful. So 10 ohm output impedance is bad for low impedance (16-32 ohms) headphones such as the SZ2000 and in-ears. And you know what the output impedance is of an average soundcard source? It's 77 ohms. So the SZ2000 will be significantly affected. I'm getting the Fiio E12 especially for the 0.3 ohm output impedance.

 

So yeah, if you want to get the MOST--"the peak of Mt. Bass"--out of the SZ2000, do as Hawaii says.

 

I have some questions with the two tracks that sounded flat:

 

In "Feed Me" were you referring to the intro bass beat, or the wobble bass in the rest of the song? Because the intro beat sounds flat even with my bass boosters on, but I don't know if they really kick in your XB700.

 

In "Tell Me" they do have impact with bass boost (anything without bass boost sounds flat to me, except for "Rah"). I also liked the sharp and hard beats of Barefoot - Murmurs, like stabs, and the random subbass rumbling in the rest of the song was cool too.

post #741 of 3524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subere View Post
 

@Hawaiibadboy Why you taking everything I'm saying as an argument man? :{ I'm not saying you're wrong, I was just saying what I was getting on my end straight out of my motherboard so you guys know where I'm coming from and could help me better. I even said I'm going to get an amp and was asking about how the e17 would pair with these. You're taking everything like I'm trying to say the 700s are better or something. The only reason I brought them up is they're my only reference point.

 

After @PocketSmiley post though, I'm still a bit skeptical about getting an amp. I mean, they're not quiet or anything on my end. I can already make them go louder than is comfortable to listen to. If you turn off all of your EQ and the bass boost on your e12, do you get any punch from the two tracks I linked or do they sound flat? I have a feeling it's more about EQing and bass boost than amping. I could be straight up completely wrong though, I'm still really new to all of this, so don't come back at me like I'm calling you out or anything, because I'm not. I'm just trying to learn and the best way I know how to do that is ask questions.

 

I am a very selfish one way, my way and the highway (they are both mine)..kinda guy. Sorry for being rude.

Seriously. My Bad.

My listening enviroment is different and I am just hunting slamapalooza. I cannot get that off my pc. I'm too mobile anyway. But you guys finding ways to improve the listening for folks who do use pc's is good for the community and anyone who dives in here.

 

Like I said...my bad. 

 

On with the Bass!!!

post #742 of 3524

You don't really need an amp, you need a decent powered source and you'll be all set. Having used an O2, an E12 and a Pico Slim as amps, i can tell you, the differences while using a decent powered source are very slim with these headphones. These do need a lot of power, but with enough juice, you'll make them sing like a canary (though in some styles, they might distort a little, but i'm still gathering information on that).

post #743 of 3524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kukyo View Post
 

You don't really need an amp, you need a decent powered source and you'll be all set. Having used an O2, an E12 and a Pico Slim as amps, i can tell you, the differences while using a decent powered source are very slim with these headphones. These do need a lot of power, but with enough juice, you'll make them sing like a canary (though in some styles, they might distort a little, but i'm still gathering information on that).

 

 

 

When my e12's Bass boost was accidentally off because it's oddly....not recessed like the gain switch? These cans sounded very different in low bass hits. I couldn't even here them. I thought the carbon nano tubes had burned in or some weird thing?? Turned that boost on and it came back to life. These are all opinions mine and yours different but of equal value. IMO the Hip Hop sounds a lot better with the early placed bass boost switch. Sounds like different cans. I think we all agree that these need some energy pumped at them. Beyond that it comes down to musical preference.

post #744 of 3524
Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketSmiley View Post
 

Output impedance should be less than 1/8 the headphone impedance or else the voltage will drop significantly that the output can't drive the headphones. The damping factor is the ratio (headphone impedance)/(output impedance), and according to Wiki, "damping factor describes the ability of the amplifier to control undesirable movement of the speaker cone near the resonant frequency of the speaker system," and the lower the damping factor, the lower the ability of the source to control the headphone drivers especially at low frequencies so they sound boomy instead of impactful. So 10 ohm output impedance is bad for low impedance (16-32 ohms) headphones such as the SZ2000 and in-ears. And you know what the output impedance is of an average soundcard source? It's 77 ohms. So the SZ2000 will be significantly affected. I'm getting the Fiio E12 especially for the 0.3 ohm output impedance.

 

That makes sense, but I'm running onboard audio on both my machines. An ALC892 and an ALC898. According to the datasheet, under output impedance, it lists 2 ohms for amplified output and 200 ohms for non-amplified output. Which am I getting? I'm pretty set on getting an amp and it looks like the e17 would pair well with it according to your last post, just before I go and drop another $150 I just want to make certain the issue is amping and not EQing or a bass boost. Again, I'm not trying to say you guys are wrong, in fact I'm sure you're right, I just don't understand half this crap and I'm trying to make sense of it. I hope you guys don't mind bearing with me :s

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by PocketSmiley View Post
 

I have some questions with the two tracks that sounded flat:

 

In "Feed Me" were you referring to the intro bass beat, or the wobble bass in the rest of the song? Because the intro beat sounds flat even with my bass boosters on, but I don't know if they really kick in your XB700.

 

In "Tell Me" they do have impact with bass boost (anything without bass boost sounds flat to me, except for "Rah"). I also liked the sharp and hard beats of Barefoot - Murmurs, like stabs, and the random subbass rumbling in the rest of the song was cool too.

 

In the Feed Me track, I was referring to the drop (1:08) and afterwards. With your comments on Tell Me, it's leading me back to thinking this is more about EQing and bass boost than amping :s

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawaiibadboy View Post
 

I am a very selfish one way, my way and the highway (they are both mine)..kinda guy. Sorry for being rude.

Seriously. My Bad.

My listening enviroment is different and I am just hunting slamapalooza. I cannot get that off my pc. I'm too mobile anyway. But you guys finding ways to improve the listening for folks who do use pc's is good for the community and anyone who dives in here.

 

Like I said...my bad. 

 

On with the Bass!!!

 

No worries at all man. I've greatly appreciated your advice and is largely why I was more confused about your responses than anything heh. I'm taking your advice and I appreciate it a lot, I'm just asking questions so I can better understand that advice. I'm just trying to learn instead of playing an elaborate game of telephone is all. Sorry if that came across as me doubting or calling you guys out.

 

Also, since I'm looking at getting an e17, could you take a listen to those two tracks I posted with no EQing, bass boost off, and tell me if they sound flat to you?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kukyo View Post
 

You don't really need an amp, you need a decent powered source and you'll be all set. Having used an O2, an E12 and a Pico Slim as amps, i can tell you, the differences while using a decent powered source are very slim with these headphones. These do need a lot of power, but with enough juice, you'll make them sing like a canary (though in some styles, they might distort a little, but i'm still gathering information on that).

 

Would you recommend the e17? For ~$150 would you say anything would be better?

post #745 of 3524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subere View Post
 

 

That makes sense, but I'm running onboard audio on both my machines. An ALC892 and an ALC898. According to the datasheet, under output impedance, it lists 2 ohms for amplified output and 200 ohms for non-amplified output. Which am I getting? I'm pretty set on getting an amp and it looks like the e17 would pair well with it according to your last post, just before I go and drop another $150 I just want to make certain the issue is amping and not EQing or a bass boost. Again, I'm not trying to say you guys are wrong, in fact I'm sure you're right, I just don't understand half this crap and I'm trying to make sense of it. I hope you guys don't mind bearing with me :s

 

In the Feed Me track, I was referring to the drop (1:08) and afterwards. With your comments on Tell Me, it's leading me back to thinking this is more about EQing and bass boost than amping :s

 

No worries at all man. I've greatly appreciated your advice and is largely why I was more confused about your responses than anything heh. I'm taking your advice and I appreciate it a lot, I'm just asking questions so I can better understand that advice. I'm just trying to learn instead of playing an elaborate game of telephone is all. Sorry if that came across as me doubting or calling you guys out.

 

Also, since I'm looking at getting an e17, could you take a listen to those two tracks I posted with no EQing, bass boost off, and tell me if they sound flat to you?

 

Would you recommend the e17? For ~$150 would you say anything would be better?

 

Out of my PC the 1st track is flat with a light bump hit starting at :45

                          2nd track is a rap song that sounds rather flat without boosting or eq'ing

 

I am really all thumbs with PC sound evaluation compared with Pocketsmiley. They both sounded in desperate need of amping and eq'ing

post #746 of 3524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subere View Post
 

That makes sense, but I'm running onboard audio on both my machines. An ALC892 and an ALC898. According to the datasheet, under output impedance, it lists 2 ohms for amplified output and 200 ohms for non-amplified output. Which am I getting? I'm pretty set on getting an amp and it looks like the e17 would pair well with it according to your last post, just before I go and drop another $150 I just want to make certain the issue is amping and not EQing or a bass boost. Again, I'm not trying to say you guys are wrong, in fact I'm sure you're right, I just don't understand half this crap and I'm trying to make sense of it. I hope you guys don't mind bearing with me :s

 

In the Feed Me track, I was referring to the drop (1:08) and afterwards. With your comments on Tell Me, it's leading me back to thinking this is more about EQing and bass boost than amping :s

 

We're all in this together! The fact that you got the SZ2000 implies that you were possibly influenced by our devoted worship of the divine beat, so of course we're kinda being defensive. The E17 is almost the same price as a pair of SZ1000, so that's why I'm with you in thinking thoroughly about getting an amp. I already have a Fiio E5, which makes me hesitate to get another, more powerful amp. Although since I returned my recent laptop for refund, and decided to just upgrade my desktop for much less, I have money to spend lol.

 

I'm actually using the ALC889, so yeah, in the Tom's Hardware article, they mentioned that the rated 2 ohms output impedance of the ALC889 is connected to a series of resistors in the output path amounting to 75 ohms, which I also don't get nor see anywhere in the datasheet. Your chips are a higher version than mine as well. I forgot to add in my previous post that since you're using the XB700, which has a low 24 ohm impedance, with the same source (your soundcard), then we can't discount your listening tests. So at least in my part, I'm really interested. I really regret not getting the XB500 before they disappeared, so you're really holding a legend with you. And the SZ2000 is relatively new and relatively unpopular and even more expensive. The thing is, Hawaii also tested the XB700 and compared them with the SZ, and had contradicting results to yours. Although Hawaii may not have used the problem tracks you mentioned. So it is possible that the XB700 excels in some songs where the SZ does not.

 

BTW, if you're adventurous and you don't mind uninstalling your current soundcard driver and reinstalling them later, here is a thread about getting an alternative compatible driver: Add Sound Enhancements to Windows 8 (doesn't have to be 8). Specifically, the last post in that thread directs you to this driver that works and opens up a complete set of enhancements. I don't know if the bass boost will be to your liking, but it works for my needs especially coupled with Equalizer APO, which you should also get since you're on your PC anyway. The weird thing about the Windows bass boost is that I could not reproduce the same effect using Equalizer APO to boost the same frequency--the latter is just too weak even when raising the level so high.

 

Anyway, thanks for being cool with everything, Subere!

post #747 of 3524
Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketSmiley View Post
 

 

We're all in this together! The fact that you got the SZ2000 implies that you were possibly influenced by our devoted worship of the divine beat, so of course we're kinda being defensive. The E17 is almost the same price as a pair of SZ1000, so that's why I'm with you in thinking thoroughly about getting an amp. I already have a Fiio E5, which makes me hesitate to get another, more powerful amp. Although since I returned my recent laptop for refund, and decided to just upgrade my desktop for much less, I have money to spend lol.

 

I'm actually using the ALC889, so yeah, in the Tom's Hardware article, they mentioned that the rated 2 ohms output impedance of the ALC889 is connected to a series of resistors in the output path amounting to 75 ohms, which I also don't get nor see anywhere in the datasheet. Your chips are a higher version than mine as well. I forgot to add in my previous post that since you're using the XB700, which has a low 24 ohm impedance, with the same source (your soundcard), then we can't discount your listening tests. So at least in my part, I'm really interested. I really regret not getting the XB500 before they disappeared, so you're really holding a legend with you. And the SZ2000 is relatively new and relatively unpopular and even more expensive. The thing is, Hawaii also tested the XB700 and compared them with the SZ, and had contradicting results to yours. Although Hawaii may not have used the problem tracks you mentioned. So it is possible that the XB700 excels in some songs where the SZ does not.

 

BTW, if you're adventurous and you don't mind uninstalling your current soundcard driver and reinstalling them later, here is a thread about getting an alternative compatible driver: Add Sound Enhancements to Windows 8 (doesn't have to be 8). Specifically, the last post in that thread directs you to this driver that works and opens up a complete set of enhancements. I don't know if the bass boost will be to your liking, but it works for my needs especially coupled with Equalizer APO, which you should also get since you're on your PC anyway. The weird thing about the Windows bass boost is that I could not reproduce the same effect using Equalizer APO to boost the same frequency--the latter is just too weak even when raising the level so high.

 

Anyway, thanks for being cool with everything, Subere!

 

I walk into stores with this around my neck. It looks like an explosive device.

I am not too concerned with outward appearances. I might actually be trying to make folks uncomfortable.

 

 

 

I walk around with the intentions of offending...I'm pretty sure. 

For a number of weeks I pitted the 77's against can after can after can after can. Private shops, Yamada Denki, EDION, Best Denki. 

One goal.

The loudest undistorted bass hit I could find.

The fact that an ugly set of plastic JVC's were kicking the **** out of far far more expensive cans was a serious wake up for me. I was stunned. ******* floored. Price to performance ratio among bass cans is a joke. A sick joke draining the wallets of 100's of thousands of people annually.

 

Textured...blah...blah.......blaaaaaaaah

 

I'm from car audio and a 45Hz hit is a ******* 45Hz hit It does it loud and strong or it distorts. Black and white. No texture. or any other word used to differentiate a 20-120Hz slopes progression. 

 

It's all ********. 

 

 

The loudest low/mid/upper bass hit was the 77's.

 Freaky.

 The closest I came to the 77 was the Yamaha Pro 500 series. The SZ2000 go louder than the 77's in the mid/low bass range.

The Ultrasone Pro 900 are the heavy hitters in the upper bass region by a little. (+4dB @ 90-120Hz??)

My favorite bass hits are often born sub audible and diminish/dissipate around 90-120Hz

 

The Pro 900 won't go low enough so the roll off is way too soon for me....me.

 

The xb 700 are outdone by their replacement the X10. That is pretty obvious when listened to side by side with the "rah" hit. 

If either hit harder than the sz I would own them.  They look like Princess leia (700) or endorsed by Simon Cowell.....man...I could not possible give a ****. None. It's more **** you for the dude who gets his expensive cans put to shame....."You know Simon Cowell endorses these?...LOLZ at you mother ******!!"   That's what I'd say

 

They don't. It's another level below.

 

I said these were the hardest hitting cans. They are. The "rah" hit is just a hit but I cannot sit and listen to lots of tracks with headphones. 

That hit is the hardest of any can I have heard

The "on my level" low freq hum should vibrate your upper neck if you have firm deep cups. The Ultrasone Pro 900 falls short right there. The SZ will go lower than your ears.

The "maad city" hit is a layered high hit over a low bass hit. 

 

I actually went out and heard the xb700 again and came away thinking...damn those X10 hit pretty good.  They cost 100 bucks. I could buy em. They hit less than the 77's though (almost same price) and both hit below the sz2000.  My Cowon BBE+10 mach3bass +8 and e12 must be unique?? I cannot explain why you guys are hearing what you hear. 

 

I'm talking about sheer force of impact. I want that. 

I wanna rub it in folks faces. I do. Every chance I get.

post #748 of 3524

Just got a Fiio E12. Will receive it possibly next weekend.

 

I found out that my current ALC889 soundcard is unreliable at high volumes. When I set my Fiio E5 amp volume to low and raise my soundcard volume near 100%, everything is distorted. I get to change my soundcard this week so it's all good.

post #749 of 3524
Hey, what is the difference in sound quality and impact between the sz1000 and sz2000?
post #750 of 3524
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