Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › KEF new headphones!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

KEF new headphones! - Page 36

post #526 of 673

Took the KEF's along for my visit to hifiheadphones. First time on a train and they did reasonable. The background rumbling along the rails was still present but tannoy and background conversational buzz was suitably lessened. I think a real concern with this category is turning the volume too high to counter the mechanical noise however. So I think I would definitely take an IEM for commute duties

post #527 of 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by zyzyx View Post


Tympan, not trying to pick a fight but you put "lossless" in quotes, as if it's clearly a concept you just don't believe in. It's not an arbitrary, almost lossless-can't-tell-the-difference-most-of-the-time type of thing. Lossless means just that. This can be verified through theory or practice, bit for bit.

I'm always open for discussions without having to feel defensive, no problem.

 

Very honestly, I am not an expert in the whole bit thing and all the terminology that goes with it.

My comment is based on something I am discovering with my ears rather than extensive technical knowledge in that field.

I, for the longest time believed Lossless was a compression algorythm that took a certain quantity of digital data, reduced it to a smaller size, and produced the exact same auditory experience, the exact same sound.

 

What I am finding out is that when playing the highest MP3 quality (320 Kps) or Apple proprietary "Apple lossless" file and comparing them to an original CD Wave file (no compression or algorythm involved) on an Apple devise (such as ipod, iphone, Laptop), I cannot tell the difference. It is too subtile.

 

On a better player such as HM801 or Tera players, or using a better external DAC, the difference is huge.

 

It has to do with the fact that Apple devices are colored and inaccurate, certainly not to the level of neutrality or transparency better devices can deliver. And so it may qualify as "lossless" because on Apple devices, it makes no difference in term of sound... but once one goes with better gear, Wave files clearly sound better.

 

The notes and frequencies  might all be there but there is more to music than notes. Silences are as important and the background behind will contribute to the overall sound signature.

 

As a comparison, lets take two identical charcoal drawings on white background paper. No one erased any part of the drawing being converted, yet, whatever convertion involved added a 5% greyish background.

As far as the foreground (drawing/notes/frequencies), they are still identical. In low lighting (ipod), most won't notice the difference but in bright light, you'll see one drawing isn't as crisp and clean.

 

Like I said, better Players render this electronic/grounding background noise that clouds the overall transparency and definition of the music. And the KEF are so transparent that they even amplify this background noise with lesser quality and Apple Lossless files.

 


This little discussion was to highlight the fact the M500 are very resolving, which is a sign of high sonic quality and the evidence of needing to be properly matched and fed to really appreciate their potential.

Now, if anyone wants to believe Apple Lossless is truly Lossless, these are words, I'm not attached to them or changing people beliefs.
But from now on, I will not buy on itunes anymore as I get better sound quality from converting from CD to wave myself or downloading true Wave files online. that's all!
 
; )

Edited by Tympan - 8/8/13 at 3:23pm
post #528 of 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFC_SL View Post

Took the KEF's along for my visit to hifiheadphones. First time on a train and they did reasonable. The background rumbling along the rails was still present but tannoy and background conversational buzz was suitably lessened. I think a real concern with this category is turning the volume too high to counter the mechanical noise however. So I think I would definitely take an IEM for commute duties

I agree about the isolation: not what can be found with Etys, DBA02 mkIIs or R50s in my experience. The seal is also not that perfect for me. But in the other ear, these concerns are nothing when speaking of neutrality, naturalness, timbre and soundstage...
post #529 of 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by gelocks View Post

 

Maybe you still need to read more...

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/661032/kef-new-headphones/405#post_9643188

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/661032/kef-new-headphones/435#post_9651650

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/675160/kef-m500-m200-appreciation-thread#post_9672073

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/661032/kef-new-headphones/435#post_9660032

 

 

Anyway, if you didn't like the Mad Dogs, I doubt you'll like these ones... As mentioned, these are as warm or warmer than the Mad Dogs and you need to crank them up a bit at least in my experience, to "properly" enjoy them. But who knows... maybe you'll try them and like 'em.

 

Warmer than the Mad Dog... eww yea I'm moving on. Although the w1000x is warm... but it's a woody warm where as the MD and most likely the Kef are more metallic [that wood sounds so nice <3] 

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueangel2323 View Post

With anything below 128 the loss of certain frequencies becomes very obvious, and to me is unlistenable. Once you hit 128 though, all the most important frequencies are there, and to my ears the main improvement you get with higher bit rates like 320 is in tonality, instrumental separation, and "air." It's most obvious in accoustic guitars.

 

Instead of waiting for 200 pages of impressions, why don't you try to find a store where you can listen to them yourself? It's the best way to tell if you'll like them. They are becoming more common, and even discount computers/electronics retailers are starting to carry them.

OMI GAWD YEA, I bet Brook Stone will carry these things, it's definatly for the look of most of the cans they carry 

post #530 of 673

Do you already compared KEF M500 to Sennheiser HD598?

post #531 of 673

Just received my KEF M500 and M200. Checking out the M500 first. Out of the box>>> Whoa! Not blowing me away like the X1, but very nice with no burn-in what so ever. Great visceral bass, with a nice amount of sub bass. Mids aren't recessed at all, but treble is a bit bright (not harsh to my ears, but pushing close). I hope the highs tame a bit.

 

The headphone, itself, is smaller than it looks in the photos to me, but it fits like a Isotoner glove! Probably one of the most comfortable headphones (especially for a portable) I've ever worn. And the headphone and it's clam-shape hardshell case are like pieces of art. One of the most beautiful headphones I own (along with the X1). I would say the sound is not too warm or cool. A very full and neutral sounding headphone. Actually, right now, the sound kind of remind me of a fuller sounding CKN-70, with deeper bass, but with those almost harsh highs. Precision sound and timbre. Okay, I'm about to break open the M200 in a few, but a thumbs-up for the M500. The WS99 is wonderful portable, but the M500 leaves it in the dust already without burn-in. Very beautiful refined-sounding portable headphone with a gorgeous physical styling to match.

post #532 of 673
Nice impressions! Leaves the WS99 in the dust right out of the box - that's a tall order!
post #533 of 673

Okay, the M200. Hmmmm??/ Hmmmmm? Where do I begin? Well let's get this out of the way first: the bass. The M200's bass is not basshead (another neutral earphone), yet it goes deeper than what I consider any dual audiophile earphone. I mean good deep clean sub-bass. Actually I think the M200 has more sub-bass than the M500 at this point (and the headphone brother's sub-bass is pretty decent). 

Does the M200 and M500 sound exactly the same? No, but you can definitely tell they are siblings in the KEF family. The M200 sounds more refined to my ears in bass and horns, and the treble is not as border-line harsh in the earphone as it is in the headphone (which I suspect will calm down with burn-in). But here is yet another richly refined phone in the KEF family. It sounds as elegant as it looks. This is like what you might imagine the best sound system sounding like in a Bentley, Rollls, Porsche or even a Benz.

 

I also have to say this is would have been my dream sound signature for the Sony EX1000, which is super refined but the highs were like pieces of glass being shoved into my ears. Oh my God, this might be one of the most refined earphones I've ever heard (call it hype, but I can only call it as I hear it). DannyBai heard it first in the group, but I think he held back on how good these sound in case his mind was playing tricks on him. lol

Is it worth having both of them? Yes, I've finally found my perfect portable headphone, and the earphone goes up there with my admiration for the ASG-2, H-200, CKS1000, and RE-400.

Does this earphone sound better than the RE-400? Well I want even delay and say Yes Yes Yes!! Why? The RE-400 is still a great sounding earphone to me, but the M200 simply wins out for me because it gives deep rich bass!! Much more bass than the RE-400, but it's still a neutral earphone. Horns are more natural sounding to me too. Now, the RE-400 may have a little bit more space between instruments, but don't quote me on that yet. I need to A/B these two tonight. But the M200 (without burn-in) is a more detailed earphone to my ears. Timbre is kicking my butt! Imaging too.

So as DannyBai stated, the fit of this earphone is interesting. It is the most shallow fitting earphone I've owned since the Senn. IE-80. You don't go in deep so much as you have the M200 angled just the right way in your ear canal or the bass deep rich bass won't reveal itself. At first I thought these were bass-light earphones, but I started playing around with the angle in the ear and the bass jumped out! Not basshead bass, but deep beautiful visceral bass (like in the M500 but deeper). Then the unique ear tabs easily flex behind your ears and hold the earphones snugly - but comfortably - in place. The earphones are so light that you forget you're wearing them to be made out of metal. And once in place, the tabs don't bother me with my glasses on. 

Kudos and well-done to KEF! 

Oh, sorry I have my H-200 three-driver hybrid with me (another one of my favorite universal earphones). Bass is deeper and richer in the KEF, and yes, overall sound imo is better in the M200. But worthy opponents in the $200 - $250 range, and both shoot way beyond their price-point. If I this M200 sound was $350 to $400, I wouldn't complain. Now, the M500 is $300, and I say it's worth it. I bought both brand new and got a Fantastic deal that really makes me happy (although I can't share how, but both for under $400). I'm aesthetic! KEF is one of the kings in refined sound.

post #534 of 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueangel2323 View Post

Nice impressions! Leaves the WS99 in the dust right out of the box - that's a tall order!

 

How I hear it. I'm sure some with disagree with me. Thank you.

post #535 of 673
Never said I disagree, just saying that they must really amazing to pull that off :)
post #536 of 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericp10 View Post

Just received my KEF M500 and M200. Checking out the M500 first. Out of the box>>> Whoa! Not blowing me away like the X1, but very nice with no burn-in what so ever. Great visceral bass, with a nice amount of sub bass. Mids aren't recessed at all, but treble is a bit bright (not harsh to my ears, but pushing close). I hope the highs tame a bit.

 

The headphone, itself, is smaller than it looks in the photos to me, but it fits like a Isotoner glove! Probably one of the most comfortable headphones (especially for a portable) I've ever worn. And the headphone and it's clam-shape hardshell case are like pieces of art. One of the most beautiful headphones I own (along with the X1). I would say the sound is not too warm or cool. A very full and neutral sounding headphone. Actually, right now, the sound kind of remind me of a fuller sounding CKN-70, with deeper bass, but with those almost harsh highs. Precision sound and timbre. Okay, I'm about to break open the M200 in a few, but a thumbs-up for the M500. The WS99 is wonderful portable, but the M500 leaves it in the dust already without burn-in. Very beautiful refined-sounding portable headphone with a gorgeous physical styling to match.

 

Nice impressions!

Bass was really surprising indeed for these little things!

Definitely better sounding overall than the PSB M4U1s and pretty close with the Momentums, though KEF's win based on comfort + sound! ;)

post #537 of 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueangel2323 View Post

Never said I disagree, just saying that they must really amazing to pull that off :)

 

I wasn't implying that you were disagreeing. lol beerchug.gif

post #538 of 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by gelocks View Post

 

Nice impressions!

Bass was really surprising indeed for these little things!

Definitely better sounding overall than the PSB M4U1s and pretty close with the Momentums, though KEF's win based on comfort + sound! ;)

Thank you gelocks.

post #539 of 673

I really like the M500 (and glad I own it), but I like the sound signature of the M200 a bit more. The earphone is simply more refined and richer sounding to my ear, but the M500 is close.

post #540 of 673

nice impressions and congrats!

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Headphones (full-size)
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › KEF new headphones!