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New Abyss planar magnetic headphone - Page 6

post #76 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

 

If you had a problem with my "opinion" in the first place than you should've taken it with a PM or so, rather then posting further things to cloud up this discussion. On the other hand you sound like an ambassador for said product/company. I don't want to discuss anything further with you as you are obviously taking my own 2c a little too personal.

 

I do not have a problem with your opinion, it is functionally the same as mine, just the way you presented it. The fact is, you don't know anything about these headphones, you haven't even heard them. However, your brash comments, clearly fueled by some kind of personal negative bias against this particular company as indicated in your posts, could give readers here the wrong idea. The majority of people reading this thread have not heard the headphones either and are not as versed in the technology as we are, and if they take your negative comments to be fact, this would be unfair since at this point, no one really knows anything about it. 

 

I don't think I sound like a shill at all. In fact, though I don't post often, I've been here a helluva lot longer than you have. I have my doubts about this product, but what I'm really preaching with regard to these headphones is a big fat "I don't know!" Let's wait and see, not throw around opinions as fact, okay? Because making claims based on non-knowledge and throwing around irrelevant technical information is what's really "cloud[ing] up this discussion".

 

Either way, calm down, you're clearly the one taking this too personally. There's no need to get emotional about a conversation with a stranger on the internet. If at some point, you would like to discuss the technology, my offer still stands.


Edited by tintin220 - 4/24/13 at 6:58pm
post #77 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophonax View Post

Heard the prototype version of these at RMAF.  My opinion seems to have matched the general consensus -- I would put them on par with the HE6 and LCD3 in terms of sound quality, with a somewhat different tonal balance than either.  A bit more of a treble lilt made them seem a bit clearer and more open than the other two planars, but they didn't quite match the HE6 in terms of bass or dynamics.

Comfort on the Abyss headphone was actually pretty decent -- better than the HE6 for me, and on par with the LCD3.

If price were no object, the HE6 would be my pick of the three planar headphones, based on tonal balance and dynamics.  But since price is always a factor, that just makes the HE6 look even better.

I got the chance to ask a couple of the JPS representatives at RMAF about how they justified such a high price tag for the Abyss headphones.  I don't recall their response, but I do recall them coming off as a bit high-handed and arrogant -- like they didn't think it was possible for other companies like Hifiman and Audeze to possess even half the engineering and design expertise that they do.  Suffice to say, I wasn't convinced.


Sophonax, your opinion is your opinion on how things sound, and that's cool man.

However, you are way out of line to create a fictional story about how we dissed other manufacturers. Myself and my two sons who created Abyss would NEVER use another company's good name to justify anything we do, not in our nature nor what we would expect from them. I work within the industry, not knock it down.

Maybe you misunderstood the answer. Given the fact that you don't remember what it was.. seems highly probable.
post #78 of 547
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tintin220 View Post

 

Are you still not comprehending what I'm writing? I do not have a problem with your opinion, it is functionally the same as mine, just the way you presented it. The fact is, you don't know anything about these headphones, you haven't even heard them. However, your brash comments, clearly fueled by some kind of personal negative bias against this particular company as indicated in your posts, could give readers here the wrong idea. The majority of people reading this thread have not heard the headphones either and are not as versed in the technology as we are, and if they take your negative comments to be fact, this would be unfair since at this point, no one really knows anything about it. 

 

I don't think I sound like a shill at all. In fact, though I don't post often, I've been here a helluva lot longer than you have. I have my opinions on this product, but what I'm really preaching with regard to these headphones is a big fat "I don't know!" Let's wait and see, not throw around opinions as fact, okay? Because making claims based on non-knowledge and throwing around irrelevant technical information is what's really "cloud[ing] up this discussion".

 

Either way, calm down, you're clearly the one taking this too personally. There's no need to get emotional about a conversation with a stranger on the internet. If at some point, you would like to discuss the technology, my offer still stands.

 

Ok put the headphones aside. Name one speaker/headphone using SE planar magnetic technology that sounds on par or better comparatively against a equally well engineered esl speaker/headphone. See where I'm heading now? I don't have much of a negative bias against JPS but just as whole, when some new cable company comes out with no amount of experience of R&D that Sennheiser or Stax has with headphones and decides to take advantage of consumers with an introductory headphone at $5k is a complete joke and fuelled by greed.

 

Here is a post by another head-fi user who has more experience than both you and I with a lot of products and I strongly agree with his sentiment:

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radio_head View Post

 

Okay, so these are 5K (thanks for the scoop anetdote)

 

This is not Stax or Sennheiser charging 5K after years of experience and major expenditure (not to mention bankruptcy in Stax's case) in the headphone arena as the pre-eminent headphones.

 

This is not Final Audio coming out with a ridiculous number and then selling 1 or 2 units.

 

This is a cable company, that, like many cable companies is well known for their markups that border on stickups trying to horn in on a "hot" high end headphone market which has just started to really breakout into mainstream audiophile publications and consciousness.  It's bad for the consumers, bad for the perception of said consumers, and bad for the hobby as a whole.

 

I'd like to do an experiment here, but it would require the passive participation of everyone on the forum:

 

Don't buy these.  Just don't.  Let's see what a concerted effort by a large forum with untested influence can do to effect a greedy outsider company that thinks it can take advantage of us.  Let's try to return a modicum of sanity to an increasingly spend-happy hobby that says more is better and new is better instead of rewarding innovation and R&D.  It's not just for us - it's for our children.  Our metaphorical children in the hobby, who may find themselves joining in 5, 10 years from now with 2K headphones being entry level high end with compromises and 10K not being out of the ordinary for "true high end" as the market sustains it.

 

Oh sure, no matter what there will be some online publications with little to no headphone experience that come out with overwhelmingly positive reviews.  But don't let that sway you.  If no one on this board buys a pair of these, it would set a precedent, an important one in a market that in many ways is still in its adolescence.  

 

It's not like this is unbearably hard.  Just don't send these guys $5,000.  

 

Do it for the kids.

 

 

Now you see where I'm heading? It's true that I have not heard these headphones and I have not posted anything about "ohh this headphone sounds crap etc". I was saying that at the price range of $5k that is Stax TOTL territory and given my limited knowledge of how SE planar transducers work, they won't approach that territory. Sound being comparatively maybe so as it could be a good sidegrade. But directly comparing the sound, price for price aiming for the hi-fidelity. No chance. If speakers can't do it what makes you think these headphones will do it unless they are using some sort of esl hybrid drivers than that is a different story and a bit misleading for them to simply call these planar magnetics.

 

O/T: I have been lurking around here since 2004 registering in 2011 thankfully after years to get an ISP to offer me an internet service so your 2009 means nothing. Heck, date of registration doesn't mean anything.

post #79 of 547

Technology plusses and minuses, design excellence or shortcoming, analysis ad nauseam without actually having listened to the darn thing only decreases the signal-to-noise ratio. This thread is quickly becoming useless in finding actual details about the cans (like them or not, that's another, altogether topic) as it becomes filled with pure speculation as to how these might or might not sound. I personally find the Abyss a visual atrocity, will never buy one even for $100 out of my sheer aesthetics shallowness, but still want to read actual impressions from those who have listened to them, just so that I can properly place them on the roster. As it is, I just went through a couple or few pages discussing single-sided magnets, why they will absolutely have high distorsion, are unable to touch the higher-end Stax turf, so on and so forth. What a waste. Whether one likes or dislikes the Abyss concept or JPS as a whole, please at least give them a chance until more actual impressions are in. Whether they will end up being regarded as the Stax killer or Edition 11 and anything in between, time will tell.

post #80 of 547

Geez, who is that crazy Radio_head guy?  He seems like some old man yelling at people to get off his virtua-lawn in dystopian future earth.

 

I will say when I posted that the Abyss was that horrid plywood spider design proto, it definitely looks nicer now, especially in person.  Not that it looks good, but I wouldn't hide the production version in my drawer 'o shame (where I keep my George Michael albums.)  

 

I have heard these since I posted that at Axpona.  Then again, the price has been raised since then as well since then.  I stand by what I posted (there's more clarification elsewhere about how to deal with recouping R&D costs when producing in-house) but already know a couple people buying one.  At this point I'm washing my hands of this whole thing - if the market decides this can succeed, well then the market and this product deserve each other.

 

Just don't expect people (myself included) to stick around in a market where prices are driven up to the point where this becomes anything other than an absurd exception to a generally sane rule.  


Edited by Radio_head - 4/24/13 at 10:33pm
post #81 of 547

Admins should just temporarily lock this thread until people start receiving the headphones and could post more detailed, not-under-convention-conditions, impressions.

post #82 of 547

This is a thread about the Abyss, not an "impressions only" thread.  Go read the LCD2 thread or any other headphone thread that gets started before release of the headphone and the beginning is always filled with speculation, etc.  I don't see anything wrong with the vast majority of the posts in this thread...

post #83 of 547

When I ran across the prototype at RMAF I was a little flabbergasted by the total package. The sound quality of the Abyss didn't soar past OK and it was hampered by a harshness that could have been attributable to the two thin wood plates used in the initial assembly. Given that my listening was limited by the meet environs it's not entirely fair to make a conclusive judgement on the finer points of their presentation, but nothing exemplary jumped out. I've heard better detail retrieval from dynamics/stats/orthos, better bass from orthos and better highs from stats. The imaging and instrument separation were very good for orthos yet still short of the best in the overall headphone field.

 

The true nature of my shock was at the disconnect between their apparent performance and the asking price. The Abyss would be competitive in the under 1k ortho market in terms of performance and though I understand that the unique magnet and diaphragm are expensive components, there's no need for the ostentatious and un-ergonomic frame, nor the uber-cable (yes I know that luxury audiophile accoutrements are JPS's bread & butter, still...). R&D amortization in a first generation product is yet another consideration I can't help but wonder about after witnessing what Audeze accomplished.

 

& if the Abyss is to be thought of as a first generation product then I can't deny its potential, provided the next gen evolves the industrial design and sound quality. Although given the likely commensurate evolution in price I doubt I'll reconsider choosing not to splurge TOTL dough.


Edited by anetode - 4/24/13 at 10:56pm
post #84 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Skubinski View Post


Sophonax, your opinion is your opinion on how things sound, and that's cool man.

However, you are way out of line to create a fictional story about how we dissed other manufacturers. Myself and my two sons who created Abyss would NEVER use another company's good name to justify anything we do, not in our nature nor what we would expect from them. I work within the industry, not knock it down.

Maybe you misunderstood the answer. Given the fact that you don't remember what it was.. seems highly probable.

 

<Original rebuttal here>

 

In the interest of getting this thread back on course before I leave, I have edited my original post and this one to restrict my impressions only to those about the headphones themselves and not about the company's general attitude.  I apologize for offending you with my original post, but my impressions were only expressed as what they were:  my impressions.

 

Since I have described my impressions and have no interest in purchasing these headphones, I think I'll leave this thread now and move on to greener pastures.  As much as I appreciate your attack on my credibility and intelligence, I don't think it will be to the benefit of anyone for me to respond in kind.  Best of luck in your business endeavors.


Edited by Sophonax - 4/25/13 at 5:35am
post #85 of 547

Can't we all just relax a bit? I am sure head-fi's informed consumers will be able to make intelligent decisions. If you think it is overpriced don't buy it. If you can afford it then try it out and buy it if you feel it is better than the competition. Come on people it is not that difficult and I think there is place for everyone's opinions here......As far as the pricing goes, the company is free to decide its own pricing and we as consumers are free to reject it if we feel it is not proportionate to performance......

post #86 of 547

Great post lithium1085

 

Sadly, It seems to me that these headphones are starting off with two strikes against them, their looks and their price. I personally couldn't care less about how headphones look, i buy them for how good they sound, not how pretty they look, and anyway, when i'm wearing them, i can't see them. Regarding their price, i would never invest $5000 on a pair of headphones, but if money was no object, i'd surely want to hear them, just in case they turned out be the ''perfect'' headphones for me.


Edited by stacker45 - 4/25/13 at 9:05pm
post #87 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by stacker45 View Post

Great post lithium1085

 

Sadly, It seems to me that these headphones are starting off with two strikes against them, their looks and their price. I personally couldn't care less about how headphones look, i buy them for how good they sound, not how pretty they look, and anyway, when i'm wearing them, i can't see them. Regarding their price, i would never invest $5000 on a pair of headphones, but if money was no object, i'd surely want to hear them, just in case they turned out be the ''perfect'' headphones for me.

Thanks stacker45.....I feel that we are all very passionate about the hobby and mostly that is a great thing. I am in the same situation as you and I would want to try it out, even thought there is no way I can afford it.  If JPS labs has developed a truly innovative product, then it will be successful regardless of other factors.

post #88 of 547

New planar magnetics---even really expensive ones---are better than no new planar magnetics, in my opinion. More exposure for alternatives to traditional dynamic drivers is a good thing, as is the potential for some of the innovations seen on the Abyss (new means of applying traces, new materials, super strong magnets, etc) to end up in less expensive products in the future.

 

In other words, I think there's still room for excitement even if you don't agree w/ the business side of it. I know some ortho nuts who aren't going to invest in these but still get excited over the R&D.

post #89 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

New planar magnetics---even really expensive ones---are better than no new planar magnetics, in my opinion. More exposure for alternatives to traditional dynamic drivers is a good thing, as is the potential for some of the innovations seen on the Abyss (new means of applying traces, new materials, super strong magnets, etc) to end up in less expensive products in the future.

 

In other words, I think there's still room for excitement even if you don't agree w/ the business side of it. I know some ortho nuts who aren't going to invest in these but still get excited over the R&D.

absolutely agreed!

post #90 of 547
Thread Starter 

Yeah wualta must be losing his patience with these.

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