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New Abyss planar magnetic headphone - Page 11

post #151 of 547

From one who owns 2 K1000's, a Taket H2 and an Ergo AMT, I don't really care how a headphone looks as long as it sounds great.

 

If I had the finances I would buy one, if it had a surplus of positive opinions.

 

But it would never change my opinion of how woeful it looks to me.

 

Would also like to buy a new Jecklin Float to match my pedestrian visage...

 

post #152 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

 

The K1000 is a fun headphone, but its tonal balance isn't exactly stellar in my opinion. Especially the later serial number versions I've heard which are too bright and shrill-sounding for my liking. From what I've heard about the Abyss' signature, I suspect it would be much more to my liking assuming I could get it to fit properly.

 

As for the new Floats, hopefully more head-fiers will give them a chance rather than dismissing them because they sound exceptional in my opinion.


There is nothing wrong with the floats. They sound brilliant. The 3500 dollar price tag is killing them.

 

If you want to sell this type of phone in any quantity you need to be in around the HD800 price point. Anything more and you run the risk of treading into Stax territory and as the song said "Nobody does it better".


Edited by Hutnicks - 5/17/13 at 7:40am
post #153 of 547
Quote:Hotnicks
There is nothing wrong with the floats.

The popularity of those fashion statement beats says you're wrong, and have the dollars in the bank to prove it.

 

The problem is that no matter what they sound like eye candy always works better than a pig with lipstick applied.

post #154 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by wink View Post

The popularity of those fashion statement beats says you're wrong, and have the dollars in the bank to prove it.

 

The problem is that no matter what they sound like eye candy always works better than a pig with lipstick applied.

 

That may well be, but how many do you think Dre would have sold at 3500 bucks?

post #155 of 547
Quote:Hutnicks

That may well be, but how many do you think Dre would have sold at 3500 bucks?

Probably ten or more times as many as Abyss ever get sold.

 

There so many style fools out there that would steal, rob or work for the loot to get one as a fashion statement.

post #156 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post


There is nothing wrong with the floats. They sound brilliant. The 3500 dollar price tag is killing them.

 

If you want to sell this type of phone in any quantity you need to be in around the HD800 price point. Anything more and you run the risk of treading into Stax territory and as the song said "Nobody does it better".

 

 

The new Floats have actually sold out in several runs so far. They're manufactured in extremely small quantities for an extremely small niche market, so they sell as many as there is demand for. It's a small German company who repairs Quad speakers as their primary business, and they invest zero in marketing the Floats.

 

Sennheiser by comparison is an industry giant. There's no way a smaller company could sink as much into R&D and expect to even break even selling the HD800 at the MSRP Sennheiser sells it.

 

Now, I'm not saying all this R&D is worth it at the end of the day, but it's actually extremely costly for smaller businesses because they simply don't have the resources and production scale that larger companies have. Audez'e for instance will probably sell the LCD-4 for $3000 or more just based on the amount of effort they're putting into the new drivers. HiFiMan by comparison sells their orthos for much less, but their focus has been more on streamlining production and reducing costs; if you look at the actual drivers, they're quite a bit more primitive compared to even the stuff from Fostex circa the 70s. Even today's "lowly" T50RP has more sophisticated drivers. Despite being single-ended, the drivers on the Abyss are actually pretty sophisticated as dBel has pointed out (and people have ignored).

 

Again I'm not saying it's all worth it at the end of the day. I'm not saying it's not worth it. Either way, the Abyss is going to sell at the very least because it's expensive. There are individuals---businessmen in Western Europe and parts of Asia for instance---who will buy one or two, listen to it for a day or so, and then shove it into a closet until some high scale client needs a gift. Talking to some of the distributors, the first production runs of the Abyss have actually all sold out already. There's actually a waiting list believe it or not. So yeah, it's selling for better or worse.

 

Whether or not it gains acceptance among head-fiers as a "legitimate" transducer is another matter, of course.

 

As for Stax, I'm definitely a fan of their products. They bring decades of refinement to the table and an almost wagyu beef type of pampering of their components. Dust controlled laboratories, day long diaphragm massage sessions, etc. That's where the justification for the price lies IMHO, not necessarily in electrostatic technology itself. I know quite a few individuals who feel planar magnetics "do it better" that Stax in some areas like bottom end response.


Edited by MuppetFace - 5/17/13 at 11:34am
post #157 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

 

 

 

 

Now, I'm not saying all this R&D is worth it at the end of the day, but it's actually extremely costly for smaller businesses because they simply don't have the resources and production scale that larger companies have. Audez'e for instance will probably sell the LCD-4 for $3000 or more just based on the amount of effort they're putting into the new drivers. HiFiMan by comparison sells their orthos for much less, but their focus has been more on streamlining production and reducing costs; if you look at the actual drivers, they're quite a bit more primitive compared to even the stuff from Fostex circa the 70s. Even today's "lowly" T50RP has more sophisticated drivers. Despite being single-ended, the drivers on the Abyss are actually pretty sophisticated as dBel has pointed out (and people have ignored).

 

 

i don´t understand the story of hifiman driver but my headphones sound very well

post #158 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

 

 

The new Floats have actually sold out in several runs so far. They're manufactured in extremely small quantities for an extremely small niche market, so they sell as many as there is demand for. It's a small German company who repairs Quad speakers as their primary business, and they invest zero in marketing the Floats.

 

Sennheiser by comparison is an industry giant. There's no way a smaller company could sink as much into R&D and expect to even break even selling the HD800 at the MSRP Sennheiser sells it.

 

Now, I'm not saying all this R&D is worth it at the end of the day, but it's actually extremely costly for smaller businesses because they simply don't have the resources and production scale that larger companies have. Audez'e for instance will probably sell the LCD-4 for $3000 or more just based on the amount of effort they're putting into the new drivers. HiFiMan by comparison sells their orthos for much less, but their focus has been more on streamlining production and reducing costs; if you look at the actual drivers, they're quite a bit more primitive compared to even the stuff from Fostex circa the 70s. Even today's "lowly" T50RP has more sophisticated drivers. Despite being single-ended, the drivers on the Abyss are actually pretty sophisticated as dBel has pointed out (and people have ignored).

 

Again I'm not saying it's all worth it at the end of the day. I'm not saying it's not worth it. Either way, the Abyss is going to sell at the very least because it's expensive. There are individuals---businessmen in Western Europe and parts of Asia for instance---who will buy one or two, listen to it for a day or so, and then shove it into a closet until some high scale client needs a gift. Talking to some of the distributors, the first production runs of the Abyss have actually all sold out already. There's actually a waiting list believe it or not. So yeah, it's selling for better or worse.

 

Whether or not it gains acceptance among head-fiers as a "legitimate" transducer is another matter, of course.

 

As for Stax, I'm definitely a fan of their products. They bring decades of refinement to the table and an almost wagyu beef type of pampering of their components. Dust controlled laboratories, day long diaphragm massage sessions, etc. That's where the justification for the price lies IMHO, not necessarily in electrostatic technology itself. I know quite a few individuals who feel planar magnetics "do it better" that Stax in some areas like bottom end response.


If I knew you better I'd be tempted to play with you .

 

However. I'm very familiar with the Jecklin story and Jecklin - QUAD. That type of product can only really exist in the niche market, and thats fine by me.It also is not 5 grand a pop. The lesson there is find your target  and stick with it. Short of a buyout by a large org they will continue merrily along.

 

There are more than a few eyeing the Abyss driver with a wary eye. Technical achievement, sure, longevity, questionable, we wait we see. Nobody is debating the effort put into it. by the same token how many manu's do you see actively whining about their RD costs?  What I am seeing, and this is just opinion here, is a company woefully underequipped to embark on this type of venture. "Feel the earth move under my feet", anyone? High price point to cover RD startup costs would have a vencapper apoplectic. It's a hallmark sign and not a good one.

 

 I'm sure their entire production is sold out. The fact that review samples seem to be nonexistant  would bear that out. The attempts to charge for review samples is yet another thing. that again is not a healthy sign.

 

 There seems to be this trend in "high end" audio to crap all over customers. Lets charge restocking for review samples. Lets release players with firmware that does not support the functions we claim and promise an update real soon. Lets pop a cmoy in a box and charge 20 X what you could buy it for on TheBay. These are all just greed induced cash grabs at their worst.

 

 Your point of Euro and Asian businessmen using them as novelty gifts illustrates the issue here. The value in the product is that is has no value. In some perverse Mcluhanistic otherworld called Audiophillia the outrageous price is the message and the higher the price the stronger the message.

 

I'd point out that Sennheiser did not start the company with the HD800, it was built gradually and with the profits from a well run business the HD800 at it's current price was made possible. Suddenly it seems en vogue to Start at the top, questionable business practice at best.

 

 The technology itself. Look at where the industry is at now. Pancake dynamic drivers with impregnated voice coils are moving toward the ortho end of the spectrum. In about 5 years time there will be a very blurred line as to what we consdier an ortho or dynamic driver. That is being driven by the big boys and where do you suspect that will leave the small fry with the obscene price tag?

 

 And to think this entire hobby started out as a DIY experiment. What was it Roger Waters said about giving any one species too much rope?

post #159 of 547

QUOTE: "Suddenly it seems en vogue to Start at the top, questionable business practice at best."

 

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

No respect for a n00b that purports to have the best out there. (as dictated by price)

Time will tell if the pig with lipstick is worthy.

FWIW I'll stick with STAX. <<two thumbs way up!>>

post #160 of 547
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post

There seems to be this trend in "high end" audio to crap all over customers. Lets charge restocking for review samples. Lets release players with firmware that does not support the functions we claim and promise an update real soon. Lets pop a cmoy in a box and charge 20 X what you could buy it for on TheBay. These are all just greed induced cash grabs at their worst.

x1000. This is what I've been saying for quite a while now, you get some small company pop out of nowhere, make a new product with no near the experience and time invested in a product another big company has been producing for years, all of a sudden slap a high price tag and put in a bunch of bs marketing terms to grab attention and call it high-end and expect every audiophile out there is a fool to buy such a product. Not going to happen. Yeah of course there's always going to be particular small group of hardcore individuals that will buy the product, but these individuals are not even what I'd call "your regular" audiophile. They are either collectors or simply they just want to waste there money on something expensive listen to a few times then not touch it again. 

 

My personal opinion is that just because it has that high end price or the product classed as high end, it gives the company or the manufacturer the motive to make up bs and expect us to pay for such greed.

 

Not to mention (and I don't care if I'm going to bash JPS directly), this is a "audiophile cable company" we are talking about here, What kind of prices do you expect when a cable company makes headphones, in this case JPS making these headphones. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by livewire View Post

FWIW I'll stick with STAX. <<two thumbs way up!>>

beerchug.gif

post #161 of 547

Well if they back their product, then we should promote their effort with only the facts. I'm sure many of us will gladly support the new purchase by purchasing the used headphones from people who want to upgrade to the Abyss. :P BTW, there's a guy on ebay, headroom_corporation, who's been selling some pretty nice headphones for a very nice buy it now price, but they're going fast. I wonder if he is trying to get one of these Abyss ;P :)

post #162 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

x1000. This is what I've been saying for quite a while now, you get some small company pop out of nowhere, make a new product with no near the experience and time invested in a product another big company has been producing for years, all of a sudden slap a high price tag and put in a bunch of bs marketing terms to grab attention and call it high-end and expect every audiophile out there is a fool to buy such a product. Not going to happen. Yeah of course there's always going to be particular small group of hardcore individuals that will buy the product, but these individuals are not even what I'd call "your regular" audiophile. They are either collectors or simply they just want to waste there money on something expensive listen to a few times then not touch it again. 

 

My personal opinion is that just because it has that high end price or the product classed as high end, it gives the company or the manufacturer the motive to make up bs and expect us to pay for such greed.

 

Not to mention (and I don't care if I'm going to bash JPS directly), this is a "audiophile cable company" we are talking about here, What kind of prices do you expect when a cable company makes headphones, in this case JPS making these headphones. 

 

beerchug.gif

 

 

I'm usually an easy going guy, but even i have my limits, you have been crapping on these headphones from the start, i've never seen someone make so many unfounded prédictions, and come to so many uninformed conclusions, all without having even heard them. You talk about Abyss ''put in a bunch of bs marketing terms'', and yet, you've been posting nothing but bs ever since this thread has started. I tought it was an unwritten rule here on Head-Fi not no post comment on the performances of headphones that you haven't heard. If you want to comment on how the Abyss look, that's fine, but please, spare us your fortune telling.

 

Now, about Abyss being a cable company, what's your point?,  Yamaha started out as a piano manufacturer, and from i can understand, they make very decent motorcycles, not to mention, all the other products that they make, wich is more that i can remember.

 

I keep coming to this Abyss thread, hoping to read some objective and informative posts to find out more about the them, and most of what i read is from you and your Stax fanboys bashing on them. you hate them, we get it, now, can we please move on?.

post #163 of 547
Thread Starter 
I can bash the Abyss as much as I want solely on the price only which is what I have been doing. If you don't like my post or tone then don't post here simple as fking that. Welcome to the interwebz mate.
post #164 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

I can bash the Abyss as much as I want solely on the price only which is what I have been doing. If you don't like my post or tone then don't post here simple as fking that. Welcome to the interwebz mate.

 

How about if i bashed on your precious Stax 009 without having heard them?, i'm willing to bet that you'd be defending them with everything you have, i hope you don't think that the 009 have a good price vs performance ratio, because if that's the case, you need a reality check.

 

And by the way, from what i've read, i'm willing to bet that i'm not the only one who's tired of your, ranting, maybe we could take a vote.

post #165 of 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

I can bash the Abyss as much as I want solely on the price only which is what I have been doing. If you don't like my post or tone then don't post here simple as fking that. Welcome to the interwebz mate.

How long can you really bash on these headphones. tongue.gif Keep goin' strong. biggrin.gif


Edited by paradoxper - 5/18/13 at 3:47pm
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