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post #31 of 65

This was not at a meet.  At my place, my equipment.  

 

I can hear why folks say the Stax 009 are the best.  There are arguments to be made.  But for me, with the proviso that my 009 listening was based on a single amp, Woo WES, there are arguments to be made for the LCD3.

 

Some folks will say "you have not heard the 009 at their best".  But, perhaps, they have not heard the LCD-3 at its best.  Have you tried Audio Research, Jadis, and other similar state of the art amps on the LCD-3?  Unfortunately, they cannot be used on the 009.  

 

I'll be getting a BHSE so the story will continue.  I hope it is wonderful.       

post #32 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amarphael View Post

You imply that they've simply "ported" an exsiting transducer to do exactly the oppsite function? Based in which model?

 

The designer posted on HF a while back that they used the K1000 frame to test mic designs as it is much easier to just listen to them.  The headphones evolved from that. 

post #33 of 65

Thanks guys for the feedback. I shall schedule a visit to the local Stax dealer for another round of audition, this time with my fav metal CDs in tow. I've heard it on a SR307 and it didn't sound that good. Maybe the 407 and 737Mk II will change things.

 

Am very keen to listen to the LCD 2v 2 or LCD3 as well. Friends here have raved a lot about the Audezes but they listen to mostly jazz and audiophile genres.

post #34 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossliew View Post

Thanks guys for the feedback. I shall schedule a visit to the local Stax dealer for another round of audition, this time with my fav metal CDs in tow. I've heard it on a SR307 and it didn't sound that good. Maybe the 407 and 737Mk II will change things.

 

Am very keen to listen to the LCD 2v 2 or LCD3 as well. Friends here have raved a lot about the Audezes but they listen to mostly jazz and audiophile genres.

Some metalhead's opinions here. The 307 lacks some "bite" to make metal shine, also not snappy enough IMO. The 507 is now my main death/thrash/melodic death metal can; while the He-6 is for the rest of the metal genres that I listen too (mainly black/folk/viking and some power).

 

Back when I had them, the Lcd2 and 3 were epic with Doom metal though. Also very nice with certain folk metal album (Empyrium never sounds better =p). I don't know what kind of metal you listen to, but nothing plays death/speed/thrash metal like Staxes \m/.

post #35 of 65

Going against the grain here, I'd say I am at 90% dynamic, 10% stat.  I don't own a megabuck stat amp yet though and am curious about the new contenders.

post #36 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by khaine1711 View Post

Some metalhead's opinions here. The 307 lacks some "bite" to make metal shine, also not snappy enough IMO. The 507 is now my main death/thrash/melodic death metal can; while the He-6 is for the rest of the metal genres that I listen too (mainly black/folk/viking and some power).

Back when I had them, the Lcd2 and 3 were epic with Doom metal though. Also very nice with certain folk metal album (Empyrium never sounds better =p). I don't know what kind of metal you listen to, but nothing plays death/speed/thrash metal like Staxes \m/.

Why do you prefer the orthos with those genres of metal? I'm curious because I've currently got a STAX SR-5 gold and have been thinking about stepping up to a 307 or 407 and I listen mainly to BM, FM, and ambient.
post #37 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by MohawkUS View Post


Why do you prefer the orthos with those genres of metal? I'm curious because I've currently got a STAX SR-5 gold and have been thinking about stepping up to a 307 or 407 and I listen mainly to BM, FM, and ambient.

Hmm, for me it's because the He-6 is more aggressive, the harder edge in treble makes electric guitar crunch really enjoyable. Also the He-6 produces a more "weighty" sound - and I don't mean that in the sense that it has more bass - which to me is more suitable for black metal in particular. Stuff like Moonsorrow, Burzum and Windir just feel more savage or atmospheric on the ortho. On the other hand, Stax pretty much win my favor completely for Wintersun and Fintroll.

 

In some cases they're really close, and there's no winner. I like Dissection guitar with He-6, but the drum notes are more "speedy" with Stax. The solution is simple, listen to each once tongue_smile.gif

post #38 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Operakid View Post

This was not at a meet.  At my place, my equipment.  

 

I can hear why folks say the Stax 009 are the best.  There are arguments to be made.  But for me, with the proviso that my 009 listening was based on a single amp, Woo WES, there are arguments to be made for the LCD3.

 

Some folks will say "you have not heard the 009 at their best".  But, perhaps, they have not heard the LCD-3 at its best.  Have you tried Audio Research, Jadis, and other similar state of the art amps on the LCD-3?  Unfortunately, they cannot be used on the 009.  

 

I'll be getting a BHSE so the story will continue.  I hope it is wonderful.       

 

What you call ethereal I call euphony without distortion; I'm also trying to figure out if it's worth it for me or not.

 

I would dearly like to compare the 009 to a 007 MKI and a 4070, the latter which has been described as sounding somewhat in between the first two.

post #39 of 65

No, I don't refer to that.  By ethereal I mean lightish; whispy; like a hologram instead of substance.     From good old Webster's, I'm using "ethereal" in this sense:

 

 

Synonyms
bodilessimmaterialformlessincorporealinsubstantial,nonmaterialnonphysicalspiritualunbodiedunsubstantial
 
 
Now, we are not world's apart so I don't want you or others thinking we're fighting or I'm against the Stax 009.  They are in the top 3 for headphones I have heard.  I can see how they would be rated number 1 for people with priorities a little different than mine.
 
The sound I hear from them is low distortion. But so do I hear very low distortion sound from my LCD-3 driven by a world class speaker amp.  Maybe that's part of the magic - driving them with fantastic amps.  Don't know, don't care.
 
But maybe with a different amp than the WES I'll join that group that says "I love the -009 best of all".  I never considered that would be an inadequate amp - which recently I was told.  We'll see!  A fun journey.      
post #40 of 65

We must have a different interpretation of euphony then. I find this effect pleasing but am not sure that it's worth $5K.

 

One thing I do not hear with the 009 is any distortion at all blink.gif

post #41 of 65

We're all trying to figure out the cues of real music that make us believe it is real music when listening to our systems.  There are fine shades, and different interpretations.  When we are talking about such fine headphones we have to remember that sometimes we are not far apart though we may like different things better.

 

I have my favorites, but admit that for others a slightly different sound might be a valid choice....it's personal.  One thing I'm sure of: I have not heard the perfect component.  Then again, I could live with my group of favorites here on out and be happy  That does not mean I'll never change, I'll always be curious.  But if I can't be happy with LCD-3 and -009, even if LCD-3, I have much bigger problems than my stereo system.  Which many people have, by the way: inability to finally sit down and enjoy after being on the chase and wanting for so long.  That's just plain old sad.  A little difference of opinion on -009 and LCD-3 is spirited fun.  Never being happy when having some of the best is, like I said, just sad

post #42 of 65
OperaKid, your description of the 009 is scary. If I never heard it, it'd be enough to discourage me of ever trying it. As it stands however, I find it has plenty of body and slam, this ethereal sound the the stereotypical characterization of stat sound and there is no justification for it apart from bias imo. As it stands, I found the lcd 3 plain bottom heavy and totally lacking air and finesse with jazz / small ensemble recordings in direct comparison to the 009.

Of course, as you said, it all quickly gets rather subjective, but for me, it's so obvious the lcds are nowhere near the stats in terms of precision and resolution (I pay attention to shimmer, instrument placement, rendering of room cues, small stuff that makes it sound real for me).

The one thing I liked the lcd 3 better, and by a mile, was some harder / rock music when oomph in the mid bass and bass region is fundamental to enjoy it. Contrary to you, it's really not what I am after when listening to classical, intimist jazz and acoustic instruments rendering in general. Having said that, it might indeed have been an amp issue (I don't recall the amp, could look it up), it was the only item different between the lcd3 and 009 system (same source was used). Then again, it's probably more about ones vision of what sounds real.

What I find a bit misleading in your post is that you were originally implying you hear the "right way" by going to many concerts for instance so you have a good reference. It's interesting to me because no 2 rooms sound the same, no 2 seats sound the same, and no 2 recordings are mastered the same way. No doubt you can educate your hearing that way but I suspect the only common thing between all these concerts is the "full body sensation" with sounds coming from all direction, pure dynamics (live instruments sound so much more dynamic than most audio rigs) and "chest impact" (not necesserily thinking about rock concerts here wink.gif, this isn't fidelity, it's early ear aging wink.gif ).
In that sense, just like someone who would actively listen to full range loudspeaker system alternating with headphone listenings, you might severely miss this lack of chest impact with headphones, making you favor some phones I personally classify as "bottom heavy".

You are right in the sense this is all about sounding "realistic" than correct in the end (and we have a very hard time defining what is that correct response of a phone). But what I want to emphasize is that we don't all pay attention to the same sound attributes amd sometimes have opposed tastes for a particular characteristic. For me, it's all about diseapparing and being a chameleon (I want to hear my cds not my phones). For that, the 009 delivers in spades.

End of rumbling, this might end up tldr wink.gif
post #43 of 65

I love the 009s but the planars do have a more visceral feeling to them, which combined with more subdued highs translates rock music exceptionally well. I can agree that it's mainly because of a midbass FR emphasis. Which is why I want to compare with a 007/4070 out of my rig.

post #44 of 65

LCD's more fun sounding, Stat's more serious sounding. 

post #45 of 65
That ethereal sound is what electrostats are known for. Some call it 'sound coming out of nowhere, effortlessly' and some call it an unnatural lack of body. Personally I'm a fan of it even for rock and metal. It allows me to listen to badly mastered recordings without having to chase down a dark or warm sounding headphone(a signature of which I'm not a fan of) A lot of people talk about the lack of impact to the bass, but few talk about it's effects on the mid-range and higher frequencies.

It's all about what you are looking for when auditioning a headphone and the things that are an immediate turn of for you. The sooner you figure out what you're looking for and your pet peeves, the better. Personally for me I need a coherent sound where I can follow the drums, bass lines, and feel the emotion behind the vocals. And I can't stand what some call 'richness' and 'warmth'. I also can't stand headphones that are too unforgiving of the source material. And for me that means stats(and possible orthos, haven't tried them yet). Everything has a compromise, it's a matter of finding which compromises you aren't willing to make.
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